5 hours ago, Killerardvark said:

Q: A bomb triggers which could cause multiple nexted affects.

The words you are looking for are "nested" (like a bird nest) and "effect" (the effect (noun) affects (verb) something )

32 minutes ago, RStan said:

I agree, especially in most cases I see the bomb from Nym trajectory simulating it or just a harpoon condition or even Torani on another ship still provides a wide array of ways to get Jostero's ability off. Likely Nym's bomb was already the most common because Torani or Nym's harpoon shot already force tokens getting spent and they can just spend 0 anyway afterwards.

35 minutes ago, Killerardvark said:

The Jostero and Torani list is still pretty strong. And this situation doesn't exactly happen every game. A lot of things have to line up just right.

Happens more times than you think. And its key in certain matchups like Asajj and Inquisitor who do not want to lose their token stack, or Dash who doesnt want to waste Rey crew focus tokens.

Knowing Jostero doesnt trigger, Asajj can safely take 1 damage from Torani, countermeasure Nym, and then her list can try to PS kill Jostero and she has her evade/focus stack left as well. Same for Dash, etc.

List is now nerfed enough to make me never want to take it to a serious tourney just because of certain matchups.

39 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

A good argument to just allow measuring whenever you want to.

You're going to get push-back on this eminently reasonable comment. For some reason the competitive X-Wing community is solidly against measuring anything, unless they can actually abuse a rule to do it. At that point, it's the greatest thing ever, and a feature, not a bug.

36 minutes ago, Killerardvark said:

FYI, there's a section in the tournament regulations stating that it is unsportsmanlike conduct to abuse rules. Stuff like this borders on that. If your opponent calls you out, it might get enforced. Fly casual.

So ... my opponent "measures for a TL" on a ship at Range approximately 7. If you're called over, you'll consider ruling this as "rules abuse," and unsportsmanlike? (If so, awesome, and good for you. Because that's exactly what it is. But prepare to get castigated for it.)

3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

You're going to get push-back on this eminently reasonable comment. For some reason the competitive X-Wing community is solidly against measuring anything, unless they can actually abuse a rule to do it. At that point, it's the greatest thing ever, and a feature, not a bug.

I'm not against measuring, if it's in the rules. That;s my core point.

If the rules said you could premeasure any time, I'd be fine with that.

Though, I think it would be a much less interesting and much slower paced game if you could, because people would want ot measure out any tight options every time they were concerned.

7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'm not against measuring, if it's in the rules. That;s my core point.

If the rules said you could premeasure any time, I'd be fine with that.

Though, I think it would be a much less interesting and much slower paced game if you could, because people would want ot measure out any tight options every time they were concerned.

This is something that is throwing us for a loop in legion. you can measure whenever you bloody well want! from anything to anything. Which can mess the brain a bit.

Relating to activating ships in the combat phase and measuring range.

Assume a ship is activated, say a Viper.

(1) Can the Viper measure range and arcs to any enemy ships or just enemy ships that are in it's arc(s)?

(2) If the Viper is disallowed shooting, say a Blinded Pilot crit or a weapons disabled token or overlapping an obstacle, can it still activate and measure range/arc to enemy ships even though it cannot select an enemy ship to attack?

Thanks!

You're allowed to ascertain valid targets. If you have no shot, no valid targets. If your weapon relates to firing arcs then you should attempt to stay within the arc. If it's close it makes sense to measure to see if it's in or out. If you're measuring behind your ship then you're abusing rules. Where's the line of reasonable? Who the heck knows...

I find Nym triggering Clusters ruling very disturbing. According to the pilot card he ignores bombs as if they never there, but according to the ruling he's not - he triggers them, ignores only the effect. How one can ignore yet not ignore

Ruling clearly changes Nyms ability from "ignore friendly bombs" to "immune to friendly bombs" or to "ignore effects of friendly bombs".

And all this for the ship who supposed to sneak through own minefield without blowing it away. That's why "he ignores" , not "he's immune".

I thought judges are usually very careful to change wording on the cards, yet this time they change whole meaning of the card without hesitation. Do Scum really needs another nerf?

Anyway anyway better to know this unfortunate thing now, not after flying to other continent and be shocked with the ruling during first battle.

Nym ignores the bombs, the bombs do not ignore him.

It's the coordinate discussion that makes my brain hurt.

Rolling back events should only be a thing if the game state is broken.

Ap-5 doesn't require the target ship to do an action to take the stress. It happens before you attempt the action. If you use cracken as precedent, are you even performing another action, or just choosing a different target for the same action? Stress can't stop you mid action, or Ap-5 wouldn't work at all, so he could just remove stress from several ships, while still giving one an action. Brain pain, man........

Imo, the cracken ruling is no more (maybe less) relevant than the isytds ruling. Performing the coordinate action is granting another ship an action like isytds is applying the condition. If it cannot resolve, you don't get to apply it elsewhere, or take another action

12 minutes ago, Oldpara said:

I find Nym triggering Clusters ruling very disturbing. According to the pilot card he ignores bombs as if they never there, but according to the ruling he's not - he triggers them, ignores only the effect. How one can ignore yet not ignore

Ruling clearly changes Nyms ability from "ignore friendly bombs" to "immune to friendly bombs" or to "ignore effects of friendly bombs".

And all this for the ship who supposed to sneak through own minefield without blowing it away. That's why "he ignores" , not "he's immune".

I thought judges are usually very careful to change wording on the cards, yet this time they change whole meaning of the card without hesitation. Do Scum really needs another nerf?

Anyway anyway better to know this unfortunate thing now, not after flying to other continent and be shocked with the ruling during first battle.

Just because you ignore something doesn't mean they ignore you. I have kids and that is painfully evident.

And about jonus and Snap Shot? Any ideia on how it would be rulled? Who is the source of the modification? I know palpatine can change the dice, can Jonus?

I think this whole thing of who is changing the dice is at the moment very confuse, and if you consider that the text of cards like jonus , howlrunner,etc were written eons ago when snap shot and OL where years away from appearing, it is dificult to think what is the RAI in the case.

2 hours ago, jokerkd said:

Nym ignores the bombs, the bombs do not ignore him.

It's the coordinate discussion that makes my brain hurt.

Rolling back events should only be a thing if the game state is broken.

Ap-5 doesn't require the target ship to do an action to take the stress. It happens before you attempt the action. If you use cracken as precedent, are you even performing another action, or just choosing a different target for the same action? Stress can't stop you mid action, or Ap-5 wouldn't work at all, so he could just remove stress from several ships, while still giving one an action. Brain pain, man........

Imo, the cracken ruling is no more (maybe less) relevant than the isytds ruling. Performing the coordinate action is granting another ship an action like isytds is applying the condition. If it cannot resolve, you don't get to apply it elsewhere, or take another action

That's my understanding of Co-ordinate as well. I also specifically cited the ISYTDS ruling as precedence when determining this.

The action is giving another ship in range the opportunity to perform a free action, so if the target ship is in range then the coordinate was successful, regardless of the whether the target ship is able to perform a free action or not. Any stress is therefore successfully removed from that ship using AP-5's ability.

If the target ship cannot perform its declared action then it can choose another action as per the normal action ruling, but I don't see how the Co-ordinate would roll back as far as the donor ship selecting a new co-ordinate target.

Thoughts? @Killerardvark

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

That's my understanding of Co-ordinate as well. I also specifically cited the ISYTDS ruling as precedence when determining this.

The action is giving another ship in range the opportunity to perform a free action, so if the target ship is in range then the coordinate was successful, regardless of the whether the target ship is able to perform a free action or not. Any stress is therefore successfully removed from that ship using AP-5's ability.

If the target ship cannot perform its declared action then it can choose another action as per the normal action ruling, but I don't see how the Co-ordinate would roll back as far as the donor ship selecting a new co-ordinate target.

Thoughts? @Killerardvark

This was my thought as well. I don't see how you could roll back to picking a new target for the coordinate. Ruling that you can choose a new target for the coordinate action if the receiving ship can't perform an action opens up another chance for "measuring" abuse as well.

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

That's my understanding of Co-ordinate as well. I also specifically cited the ISYTDS ruling as precedence when determining this.

The action is giving another ship in range the opportunity to perform a free action, so if the target ship is in range then the coordinate was successful, regardless of the whether the target ship is able to perform a free action or not. Any stress is therefore successfully removed from that ship using AP-5's ability.

If the target ship cannot perform its declared action then it can choose another action as per the normal action ruling, but I don't see how the Co-ordinate would roll back as far as the donor ship selecting a new co-ordinate target.

Thoughts? @Killerardvark

Look at Airen Cracken. His ability is basically a Range 1 Coordinate after he attacks. So it'll follow the same ruling.

So this came up tonight using new Flight Assist Astromech rules.

Mr. Snap Wexley with FAA.

Before this new ruling, you move snap. Both his ability and FAA trigger at same time so you choose the order and check FAA too decide the order of maneuvers. If a ship is in arc, you can only do snaps ability boost, else you can do both.

Now, snap moves and both trigger but I cant check FAA at all unless I do the maneuver, so I use snap ability to boost, then now want to use FAA, and now I can check and "Hey, now nobody is outside my arc" so I barrel roll.

10 minutes ago, wurms said:

So this came up tonight using new Flight Assist Astromech rules.

Mr. Snap Wexley with FAA.

Before this new ruling, you move snap. Both his ability and FAA trigger at same time so you choose the order and check FAA too decide the order of maneuvers. If a ship is in arc, you can only do snaps ability boost, else you can do both.

Now, snap moves and both trigger but I cant check FAA at all unless I do the maneuver, so I use snap ability to boost, then now want to use FAA, and now I can check and "Hey, now nobody is outside my arc" so I barrel roll.

You have to check the triggers first before anything is done. "3 speed, have Snap boost, check. I want to Flight a barrel roll, measures noone in arc, check. As i have both triggered ill choose Snap Boost then Flight Barrel roll."

1 hour ago, MegaSilver said:

Look at Airen Cracken. His ability is basically a Range 1 Coordinate after he attacks. So it'll follow the same ruling.

Cracken's abilities result and a co-ordinates result might be the same, but the method in which they get to those results are not. The requirements of Cracken's ability are fulfilled once he has performed an attack, hence it can be rolled back to that point. Coordinate is its own action, and its requirements are theoretically met once the donor ship has determined a target in range.

You can't choose a co-ordinate target, determine its in range, then choose to do a focus action, so my thinking is once range requirements are met, the action is deemed successful, just the same as putting a 1 bank template down on the table for a boost action. If it fits, it sits.

That's my thinking anyway.

15 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

I've not seen it rules this way before, but on a close re-read of the card I can't disagree.

It is, however, a pretty major break from the timing chart, which separates CM/Procket dice counts (substep 2i) from abilities that alter dice count beyond the attack itself (substep 2ii). They need to either change the chart or scrap it entirely, because they keep contradicting their own attack timing rules with rulings/FAQ entries.

8 hours ago, Killerardvark said:

You're allowed to ascertain valid targets. If you have no shot, no valid targets. If your weapon relates to firing arcs then you should attempt to stay within the arc. If it's close it makes sense to measure to see if it's in or out. If you're measuring behind your ship then you're abusing rules. Where's the line of reasonable? Who the heck knows...

This is just... not what the rules say, though.

" Declare Target :

The attacker may measure

range to any number of enemy ships and check

which enemy ships are inside his firing arc. Then

the attacker chooses one of his weapons to

attack with. Then he chooses one enemy ship to

be the target and pays any costs required for the

attack."

It's very clear you can measure to any enemy ships you want when you activate in combat, before you do anything else. Mostly you wouldn't WANT to give your opponent extra information about attack ranges before you have to, but it's very clear that you can.

7 hours ago, Killerardvark said:

Just because you ignore something doesn't mean they ignore you. I have kids and that is painfully evident.

I know those aren't made by you, but they were passed on by FFG but I really don't get this answer. What have kids to do with Nym, bombs and xwing rulings? Let's keep using pertinent examples please.

Nym may ignore friendly bombs. If he's ignoring them, how are the bombs detonating?

Because if "bombs don't ignore him", whatever it might mean, then I can hear arguments about Dash Rendar not being able to perform barrel rolls if the template touches an obstacle...

2 hours ago, RampancyTW said:

It is, however, a pretty major break from the timing chart, which separates CM/Procket dice counts (substep 2i) from abilities that alter dice count beyond the attack itself (substep 2ii). They need to either change the chart or scrap it entirely, because they keep contradicting their own attack timing rules with rulings/FAQ entries.

Adding dice with cruise missile ability would happen at 2ii aswell

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

I know those aren't made by you, but they were passed on by FFG but I really don't get this answer. What have kids to do with Nym, bombs and xwing rulings? Let's keep using pertinent examples please.

Nym may ignore friendly bombs. If he's ignoring them, how are the bombs detonating?

Because if "bombs don't ignore him", whatever it might mean, then I can hear arguments about Dash Rendar not being able to perform barrel rolls if the template touches an obstacle...

Holy ****

You insist on pertinent examples and then claim Dash's barrel rolls are an argument?

Dash ignores obstacles. If a rock stopped you from barrel rolling, you wouldn't be ignoring it.

If nym sets off a bomb but isnt affected by it, he is still ignoring it

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

Nym may ignore friendly bombs. If he's ignoring them, how are the bombs detonating?

Are the bombs ignoring Nym? That's a really facetious argument.

19 hours ago, Killerardvark said:

Yes, just like declaring any other boost or barrel roll. Just an extra requirement involved.

So, what happens if the Boost/Roll I declare can't happen? (Ships/obstacles?)

Do I have to select a new one? That would be weird and out of precedence for the game

Do I get to not select one? If so, seems to defeat the point of the ruling i.e. intentionally declare one that won't work to get the free measurement

I really don't abusive measuring was any kind of problem, at worst annoying, and this ruling makes FAA infinitely more awkward to use. And that's a shame because the card is quite well designed.