Shroud

Concentration : Yes

Skills : Arcane, Primal and Verse

Basic Spell : Make an Easy Difficulty magic skill check to alter the appearance of one Silhouette 0 object or creature you are engaged with. If successful, until the end of your next turn, anyone attempting to identify or search for the target upgrades the difficulty of the check twice. Additionally any check made to hide the target object or creature may upgrade the ability pool twice. This is a magical effect and as such these upgrades can only be canceled by magical means, such as Dispel.

Additional effects:

+1D Range; Increase the range of the spell (the distance from the casting character to the target object or creature to be shrouded) by one range band. This may be added multiple times, increasing the range by one range band each time.

+1D Additional Shroud; The spell Shrouds one additional object or creature. In addition, after casting the spell, you may spend 2 Advantage to Shroud one additional object or creature (and may trigger this multiple times, spending 2 Advantage each time).

+1D Medium Shroud; The Spell may target an object or creature of Silhouette 2 or less, this may include the caster.

+1D Blurred Lines; Upon successfully casting the spell your target becomes somewhat translucent, blend into their surroundings, or blur as they move. The effects of successfully casting this spell also apply to combat checks targeting the target of this spell.

+2D Empowered; All Dice upgrades from this spell upgrade a a check a number of times equal to the casters ranks in Deception, this is instead of the two from the basic spell. This could be represented as a significant change in the appearance of the target, or it could even be causing the target to become invisable (Obviously this could be Knowledge Lore but Deception should limit the spells use a heck of a lot more since most spell casters will quickly have 4 ranks in Knowledge Lore but not Deception)

+2D Grand Shroud; The Spell may target an object or creature of Silhouette 4 or less, this may include the caster.

I changed the basic spell to be an easy difficulty. Then added the blurring upgrade which increases is intended to make you much harder to hit in combat. Should it increase your defence? Or be an environmental setback that stacks with defence?

I think it is important it includes both disguise and invisibility in this spell as they are both very similar and it keeps with the broad narrative design of Genesys spells.

So with a Daunting Difficulty you can add 2 Setback to checks to identify yourself and your horse. But making both of you invisible would require you to have it as a Signature Spell, or have a magic implement.

Making just yourself have concealment equal to your Deception is Daunting as well, having that add to checks targeting you in combat is Formidable.

If the blurred lines is in addition to your defence then potentially a character could have 5 ranks in Deception and 4 Defence for a total of 9 Setback to hit you!!! But you had best be good at casting.

Another thought i have is should this add boost dice to Stealth, and possibly Deception, checks? I’m a big fan of players rolling as many checks as possible so I would usually ask them for a Stealth instead of me rolling a Perception/Vigilance for an NPC. But then it’s getting awfully close to Augment which was the thing I was trying to avoid.

It seems like you're converging on something that mixes Invisiblity with Illusion.

That’s the idea, both are a method or altering your outward appearance, so why not start with simple illusion and build to invisibility?

I'd try a different approach to define the base dif. My base would be over the size being:

1 to sil. 0-1; 2 to sil. 3-4; 3 to sil. 5-6; 4 to sil. 7-8; 5 to sil. 9+;

+1D per additional target: ok.

+1D per range band of distance of the target: ok.

NEW : +1D or +2D to create a decoy of the original target (or targets) that would stay in there for the duration of the spell.

I'd avoid any other modifications also.

6 minutes ago, Bellyon said:

1 to sil. 0-1; 2 to sil. 3-4; 3 to sil. 5-6; 4 to sil. 7-8; 5 to sil. 9+;

I’m sorry I don’t really understand what you mean here

6 minutes ago, Bellyon said:

NEW : +1D or +2D to create a decoy of the original target (or targets) that would stay in there for the duration of the spell.

I like this a lot, although perhaps it could be a part of the Additional Shroud effect, either you disguise multiple targets or you create multiple copies of one.

D1 for the target with the silhouette 0 or 1.

D2 for the target with the silhouette 2 or 3.

D3 for the target with the silhouette 4 or 5.

D4 for the target with the silhouette 6 or 7.

D5 for the target with the silhouette 8 or more.

That’s some epic level illusion magic to disguise a Silhouette 9 object, it’s basically making a mountain look different!

I think being able to disguise a mountain is outside the boundaries set up by the other spells. If you where to include that then every spell would need to be changed to be more powerful.

What about if the basic power does Silhouette 0, something I think is a reasonable starting point for an Easy Difficulty.

Then the Medium Shroud upgrade adds 1 Difficulty increases the Silhouette to 2. So horse sized things

Finally the Grand Shroud increases the size to Silhouette 4 and adds 3 Difficulty.

So if you try really hard you can shroud a house or small tavern, but bigger ships (Silhouette 5) castles (Silhouette 7) and mountains (Silhouette 9) are impossible.

My thoughts about:

Idk the limits of the other spells, I haven't enough time to read the book, but I think you are missing something: the possibilty to add setbacks to the test and that they need a high level of power to do something like this.

Trying to turn invisible something that big, but something that is very important to people around, could provide a lot of setbacks, turning the things more difficult.

Keep in mind there aren't much things that has a silhouette this big.

And keep in mind that the conjurer would be probably very near to the target, keeping the concentration.

In some situations the GM could demand a story point to do it.

So for a comparison:

the largest object you can summon is Silhouette 3

The most powerful attack possible is Damage 10(+Success), Crit 2, Pierce 5, Vicious 5, Sunder

The best Augment can give a single individual is +5 Wound Threshold, +1 Ability dice to all checks, Swift and Haste

The best Barrier can reduce damage by 1+1 per Success and give you Defence 4 with the possibility to reflect Damage

Heal can Resurrect someone. or heal wounds equal to success and strain equal advantage, remove a single Crit and remove a single status effect(Eg Disoriented).

So there’s nothing there that even comes close to hiding a mountain. So my proposal is that the absolute pinnacle of this spell would be disguising a Silhouette 3 or 4 object.

Would Upgrades be better than Setback dice? It’s a less used mechanic, reduces dice pool bloat, has less effect on Success/Failure rates but brings in the opportunity of Despair. The effect would then be between 2 and 5 Upgrades to checks, with the combat option potentially turning a melee Attack from DD to CCCD, much harder but not as hard as DDSSSSS.

7 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Would Upgrades be better than Setback dice? It’s a less used mechanic, reduces dice pool bloat, has less effect on Success/Failure rates but brings in the opportunity of Despair. The effect would then be between 2 and 5 Upgrades to checks, with the combat option potentially turning a melee Attack from DD to CCCD, much harder but not as hard as DDSSSSS.

I've already been doing that as a houserule. If a spell is greater than 5 difficulty, I just start upgrading the pool.

The suggested RAW is that a spell has a maximum difficulty of 5, and once it reaches that you are not allowed to add any more additional effects. Upgrading is a decent way to bypass that, but it’s mostly only going to be used for spells that need lots of range upgrades.

Ok I updated the original post to show the increased Silhouette as well as changing the basic mechanics to upgrades instead of Setback. I also added an upgrade option for checks to hide the target. So you would upgrade your Stealth if you had the spell cast on you and you attempted to sneak past someone.

The absolute pinnacle of the power would be 5 Upgrades to a character rolling 5 Proficiency, taking the pool to PPPPPPPA... that should be good enough for representing invisibility! Otherwise it would be PPPPPBBBBB if I kept the boost dice system instead, I like Triumphs so I think upgrades are better.

@Richardbuxton : As it reads currently in the first post (I don't know how many times you've edited it), it looks like a solid spell. I will say it kind of steps on the toes of Augment, Barrier, and Curse a bit, but it would work well in any group that plays the magic rules as written.

I have updated it 4 or 5 times, i think its easier than everyone reading the wrong thing and only finding out later in the thread

My intention was to do something less broad than Curse and Augment with the possibility of it being a bit more potent at the upper limit. But i wanted it to still have the possibility of being broadly narrative in its use, thus both the potential for disguise and invisibility, i would even like a doppelgänger upgrade but its beyond my literary and creative skills so far. The combat thing certainly steps on Barrier a bit, stacking them could get a touch out of hand with 4 setback and 5 upgrades.

Should i make it all based on the concealment rules? +1 or +2 for basic, +4 for the Empowered upgrade?

I recall that invisibility was applied logically in the past: as long as it works, no character can see you, and any attempts to find you were formidable.

The misdirect power had the control upgrade that added threats to attacks targeting the character. Maybe you can do something like that: Enemies adds failure/threat (caster's choice) equal to X to checks to attack the target for the duration.

Thats a neat idea, instead of adding dice you add results to the pool. Perhaps the big signature upgrade adds an automatic despair?

so this would be the new version with adding automatic symbols, i feel like an automatic failure is better than two automatic Setback so i reduced the results. I specified that the positive benefits dont apply to combat checks as that could get way out of hand

Shroud

Concentration : Yes

Skills : Arcane, Primal and Verse

Basic Spell : Make an Easy Difficulty magic skill check to alter the appearance of one Silhouette 0 object or creature you are engaged with. If successful, until the end of your next turn, anyone attempting to identify or search for the target adds one Failure or Threat to the results of the check, the caster or target of the spell may choose. Additionally any check made to hide the target object or creature may add one Success or Advantave to the results of the check. This is a magical effect and as such these effects can only be prevented by magical means, such as Dispel.

Additional effects:

+1D Range; Increase the range of the spell (the distance from the casting character to the target object or creature to be shrouded) by one range band. This may be added multiple times, increasing the range by one range band each time.

+1D Additional Shroud; The spell Shrouds one additional object or creature. In addition, after casting the spell, you may spend 2 Advantage to Shroud one additional object or creature (and may trigger this multiple times, spending 2 Advantage each time).

+1D Medium Shroud; The Spell may target an object or creature of Silhouette 2 or less, this may include the caster.

+1D Blurred Lines; Upon successfully casting the spell your target becomes somewhat translucent, blend into their surroundings, or blur as they move. The negative effects of successfully casting this spell also apply to combat checks targeting the target of this spell.

+2D Empowered; Upon successfully casting this spell the number of automatic dice results added to a check are equal to the casters ranks in Deception, this is instead of those provided from the basic spell. This could be represented as a significant change in the appearance of the target, or it could even be from causing the target to become invisable (Obviously this could be Knowledge Lore but Deception should limit the spells use a heck of a lot more since most spell casters will quickly have 4 ranks in Knowledge Lore but not Deception)

+2D Grand Shroud; The Spell may target an object or creature of Silhouette 4 or less, this may include the caster.

26 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Shroud

Concentration : Yes

Skills : Arcane, Primal and Verse

Basic Spell : Your character may select one silhouette 0 object or creature they are engaged with and make an easy magic check. If successful, until the end of your character's next turn, anyone attempting to identify or find the target adds one automatic f or h (caster's choice) to the results of the check. Additionally, any check made by your character to hide the targeted object or creature adds one automatic s or a (caster's choice) to the results of the check. This is a magical effect, and the effects can be disrupted by magical means, such as the Dispel spell.

Additional effects:

Range (+1) : Increase the range of the spell (the distance from the casting character to the target object or creature to be shrouded) by one range band. This may be added multiple times, increasing the range by one range band each time.

Additional Target (+1) : The spell affects one additional object or creature. In addition, after casting the spell, you may spend aa to affect one additional object or creature (and may trigger this multiple times, spending aa each time).

Medium Shroud (+1) : The spell may target an object or creature of Silhouette 2 or less (including the caster).

Blurred Lines (+1) : Upon successfully casting the spell, your target becomes somewhat translucent, blend into their surroundings, or begin to blur as they move. Add one automatic f or h (caster's choice) to the results of any combat checks made against the target.

Empowered (+2) : Upon successfully casting this spell, the number of f , f , s , or a added to a check is equal to your character's ranks in Deception. This replaces the base effects of the spell. This could be represented as a significant change in the appearance of the target, or it could even be from causing the target to become invisible.

Grand Shroud (+2) : The spell may target an object or creature of Silhouette 4 or less (including the caster).

Is that what you're going for?

About the additional target effect: all of the spells except Conjure have it only cost 1 a instead of 2. I'd maybe go for that instead.

Ill add even more, but your wording is better for sure.

Quote

Shroud

Concentration : Yes

Skills : Arcane, Primal and Verse

Basic Spell : Your character may select one silhouette 0 object or creature they are engaged with, which they wish to alter the appearance or create a copy of, and make an easy magic check . If successful, until the end of your character's next turn, anyone attempting to identify the target, the copy, or find the target adds two automatic f [Failure] to the results of the check. Additionally, any check made by your character to hide the targeted object or creature adds one automatic s [Success] to the results of the check. If the target or copy move outside the range of the spell the effect ends immediately. This is a magical effect, and therefore the effects can be disrupted by magical means, such as the Dispel spell.

Additional effects:

Range (+1) : Increase the range of the spell (the distance from the casting character to the target object, creature, or copy) by one range band. This may be added multiple times, increasing the range by one range band each time.

Additional Target (+1) : The spell affects one additional object or creature. In addition, after casting the spell, you may spend a [Advantage] to affect one additional object or creature (and may trigger this multiple times, spending a[Advantage] each time).

Medium Shroud (+1) : The spell may target an object or creature of Silhouette 2 or less (including the caster).

Blurred Lines (+1) : Upon successfully casting the spell, your target becomes somewhat translucent, blend into their surroundings, or begin to blur as they move. Add one automatic f [Failure] to the results of any combat checks made against the target.

Empowered (+2) : Upon successfully casting this spell you may instead choose to add Threat or Advantage instead of Failure or Success to the results of any applicable check (or a combination of both). Additionally the number of f , h , s , or a [Failure, Threat, Success or Advantage] added to a check is equal to your character's ranks in Deception. This replaces the base effects of the spell. This could be represented as a significant change in the appearance of the target, an impeccable copy, or it could even be from causing the target to become invisible.

Grand Shroud (+2) : The spell may target an object or creature of Silhouette 4 or less (including the caster).

so the changes where to include a clone option, then to also change it so to choose Advantage or Threat you need to use the Empowered upgrade