i'm glad i only planned picking up 1 unit of these guys, i'll use the Flamethrower and toss the Ion trooper in a box.

1 hour ago, Squark said:

The price of snowtroopers doesn't appear to have been updated to 48 points/12 points (presumed) for the personnel upgrade.

Fixed, thanks

2 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

it just goes back to the same ion problem we have in xwing

"You dont want ions to be good because then they would be everywhere and make the game unfun"

While its not the same degree as it is in Xwing since it doesnt do anything to troopers, vehicles are NOT cheap and if theres an easily spammed or super strong ion weapon....vehicles will vanish as a result.

I wish ffg would just stop trying to incorporate ion effects. It always ends up being meh and just a waste of time because of that legit fear of them being OP if you arent careful.

It’s well worth having two units with ion weapons to lock out an AT-ST. (Aka not nearly as expensive as the AT-ST)

31 minutes ago, Derrault said:

It’s well worth having two units with ion weapons to lock out an AT-ST. (Aka not nearly as expensive as the AT-ST)

Well let's say that half of Imperial forces have ATSTs. Rebels don't (of course). So in a tournament (for example) you'll face an ATST around 25% of the time.

...which will know which two units are the threat, so I'd hope they'd have the smarts to suppress them, at the very least, and focus them down if they reasonably can. And I really doubt the rest of the enemy force is going to let you sit there recovering and shooting all day.

So you end up with a 25% chance of a chance to sometimes cut out a single turn of an ATST, at the cost of two 72 point units (i.e. two thirds of the cost of the ATST anyway) doing pretty much only that during those games. And at the cost of not having a Z-6 that's significantly better in the other 75% of games, and at the cost of 20 points, and an action every time after the first shot. Assuming you can even spare an action to reload if you have suppression.

Yeah... no.

As a Rebel player, I can happily let everyone else bring Ions, because yep, that'll discourage ATSTs. I'll bring Z-6s.

4 minutes ago, Weatsop said:

Well let's say that half of Imperial forces have ATSTs. Rebels don't (of course). So in a tournament (for example) you'll face an ATST around 25% of the time.

...which will know which two units are the threat, so I'd hope they'd have the smarts to suppress them, at the very least, and focus them down if they reasonably can. And I really doubt the rest of the enemy force is going to let you sit there recovering and shooting all day.

So you end up with a 25% chance of a chance to sometimes cut out a single turn of an ATST, at the cost of two 72 point units (i.e. two thirds of the cost of the ATST anyway) doing pretty much only that during those games. And at the cost of not having a Z-6 that's significantly better in the other 75% of games, and at the cost of 20 points, and an action every time after the first shot. Assuming you can even spare an action to reload if you have suppression.

Yeah... no.

As a Rebel player, I can happily let everyone else bring Ions, because yep, that'll discourage ATSTs.

In point of fact, both rebel heavy weapons average 1.5 total hits per shot (crits and hits)

Z-6 has a higher variance, is all, and next to no value against armor (.75 crits) while the MPL is great but requires recharge.

It’s very unlikely that there will be any competitive builds without any armor, forget only 25%

35 minutes ago, Derrault said:

In point of fact, both rebel heavy weapons average 1.5 total hits per shot (crits and hits)

Z-6 has a higher variance, is all, and next to no value against armor (.75 crits) while the MPL is great but requires recharge.

It’s very unlikely that there will be any competitive builds without any armor, forget only 25%

Well, I'd argue that it's not always useful against all vehicles. If you want to burn two 72 point activations to shut down my 90 point ATRT, and assuming my own order choice / order of activations lets you, then hey, more luck to ya! In 5 activations you'll even kill it. Assuming you can stand still, reload and shoot every time. Never suppressed, can't chase objectives, just standing there...

...yep. I'll take that, and happily.

If ATSTs did not exist, would anyone bring Ion, ever? I seriously doubt it.

A z-6 squad has about a 74% chance to get at least one crit (1 damage to a vehicle). An ion squad will almost certainly get a crit (vs armour), but with about a 50% chance of a second. Neither of these are much good for killing an ATST. It'll take all day. So the ion component is what matters... if it matters.

And yeah, I'd very much argue that the ion is not likely to be doing much shooting at infantry after the first shot. The chances you have two activations, AND don't have something better to do with one of them, is (IME) pretty rare. If you want to compare straight hits to the z-6, at least give the z-6 (and the rest of the squad! so that's a black-dice, right?) aim after the first shot...

And they often have something better to do than aim, as well...

But yeah, YMMV. I tried 'em, and too many games they did nuthin'.

---

Sorry! Should have mentioned the other half of things: ATST damage output.

Assume, I dunno, the twin light blasters. It ends up with 3 of each dice.

Imagine it spends 4 turns shooting at infantry, who are in the open with no dodge or suppression.

It'll get 18 hits, 6 of which are saved, meaning 12 kills.

With any kind of realistic amount of dodge or cover or even just suppression, it could easily be something close to half that. But lets split the difference and call it 9.

That's not even two squads.

The ATST will almost never make its points back. It's not that dangerous. You want to give it a turn without shooting? *Hide*. That costs no points at all! It really comes down to objectives - but if the other guy is running an ATST, then I hope you're working hard to find good objectives and conditions to nerf the thing.

Both the Heavy weapons look like crap, the Ion is so over costed for it's range and dice and the flame thrower having 1 black dice per mini is just yuck, i would have prefered 2 white per mini otherwise i don't think i want to target the unit i'm going after because it will diminish my FT returns

1 hour ago, Darth evil said:

Both the Heavy weapons look like crap, the Ion is so over costed for it's range and dice and the flame thrower having 1 black dice per mini is just yuck, i would have prefered 2 white per mini otherwise i don't think i want to target the unit i'm going after because it will diminish my FT returns

It's not just a black, it's a black with Surge->Hit which is even better, not to mention if you decide to use scopes and aim to make it even more of fun times for whatever group is set on fire

37 minutes ago, Shadows of the Future said:

It's not just a black, it's a black with Surge->Hit which is even better, not to mention if you decide to use scopes and aim to make it even more of fun times for whatever group is set on fire

And it gives the same blast effect as concussion grenades. And it costs very little. I mean, an extra trooper and concussion grenades costs about 17 points. A flamer guy costs 20. Three points for a bunch of extra dice, on a unit that can move and shoot well! That's value, IMO.

2 minutes ago, Weatsop said:

And it gives the same blast effect as concussion grenades. And it costs very little. I mean, an extra trooper and concussion grenades costs about 17 points. A flamer guy costs 20. Three points for a bunch of extra dice, on a unit that can move and shoot well! That's value, IMO.

i hadn't considered the normal E-11's in my thinking. hmmmm

6 hours ago, Weatsop said:

Well, I'd argue that it's not always useful against all vehicles. If you want to burn two 72 point activations to shut down my 90 point ATRT, and assuming my own order choice / order of activations lets you, then hey, more luck to ya! In 5 activations you'll even kill it. Assuming you can stand still, reload and shoot every time. Never suppressed, can't chase objectives, just standing there...

...yep. I'll take that, and happily.

If ATSTs did not exist, would anyone bring Ion, ever? I seriously doubt it.

A z-6 squad has about a 74% chance to get at least one crit (1 damage to a vehicle). An ion squad will almost certainly get a crit (vs armour), but with about a 50% chance of a second. Neither of these are much good for killing an ATST. It'll take all day. So the ion component is what matters... if it matters.

Well, with two ions, you can shoot at an airspeeder or bikes and make them only do compulsory moves. Sure, bikes are just 90 points but they are lethal since they tend to move behind your cover to make you roll lots of white dice.
And firing a single ion at an AT-RT would mean it can't move and shoot, which is what you want from your opponent's flamethrower AT-RT: Inability to do two actions.

I am actually very happy we don’t see a bunch of new upgrade cards that are not unit specific.

As someone with a massive binder for x-wing let me tell you that upgrade bloat is not good for a game.

Also I need more some impact gernade cards. I bought the Rebel half of two core sets and don’t want to buy more of wave one

2 hours ago, Deuzerre said:

Well, with two ions, you can shoot at an airspeeder or bikes and make them only do compulsory moves. Sure, bikes are just 90 points but they are lethal since they tend to move behind your cover to make you roll lots of white dice.
And firing a single ion at an AT-RT would mean it can't move and shoot, which is what you want from your opponent's flamethrower AT-RT: Inability to do two actions.

Oh no, they're not useless. But are they better than the many other ways you can spend points?

Situationally yes. Like I keep a squad with ion on the flank of my main blob of infantry to shoot at those pesky bikes. In itself it isn't that great, but it's sort of a force multiplier.
Main issue snow troopers will have with their ion weapon is that .... The other dice thrown by the squad are white, and therefore it'll be harder to achieve the right number of hits against cover for impact to work (not counting natural crits)

1 minute ago, Deuzerre said:

Situationally yes. Like I keep a squad with ion on the flank of my main blob of infantry to shoot at those pesky bikes. In itself it isn't that great, but it's sort of a force multiplier.
Main issue snow troopers will have with their ion weapon is that .... The other dice thrown by the squad are white, and therefore it'll be harder to achieve the right number of hits against cover for impact to work (not counting natural crits)

Well, impact only needs one hit. Everything else is crits, and white are as good as black there. And a squad should usually get a hit (Stormie white is only 1/8 worse than Rebel black).

Like I said, the more folk running ion, the better for me. Less ATSTs...

Impact 1 needs 3 hits, assuming heavy cover, not one. Cover removes hits before impact changes them.

Im well familiar with Wargames so I know the costs/potential costs involved but bloody ****, somebody looking to do a new Snowtrooper based imperial force(rather than the standard) will now be dropping cash on 3-5 boxes of Snowtroopers (and same I guess for Fleet Troopers shortly).

Pricey!!

I really must buy some Snowtroopers, from a modelling/Star Wars fan perspective...but in a way i like the simplicity at the moment, I mainly play with family/wife so the ease of the troopers all being basic stromies is nice too.

Oops, forget it.

not sure about snowtroopers but i only plan to buy 1 unit of fleettroopers for rebels.

They hold objectives. Thats about it lol. So including 1 unit is a wise idea but include too many and if you get a mission that doesnt cater to camping on an objective and you got several fleettroopers....have fun

Not really sure what snowtroopers even bring regular troopers dont. If they had access to the DLT they could be pretty lethal though.

13 minutes ago, Deuzerre said:

Huh, I just thought of an interesting way to use snowtroopers.

Move-shoot
Then standby.

You shoot twice in your turn this way if you trigger your standby, while still able to move.

You cannot perform Standby if you have attacked during your Activation.

Already edited it out, re-read the rules after posting.

Honestly, like @xero989 said, Snowtroopers + Flametrooper + Impact grenades is going to be a solid close quarters unit!

That comes in at 73 points, which is not too bad. 5 white dice on the move should get at least 1 or 2 hits to add suppression, then range one is insane! You could just use Steady to kite in and out of cover, and wait until the right time to go for range 1.

Range 1 vs troopers: You get all black dice + BLAST + extra black dice for each mini you are attacking. That will eat infantry!

Or, at range 1 of vehicle, you get black dice and IMPACT equal to your unit.

20 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Well, as an aside, Imperial Navy Troopers who wear “black helmets” are Canon, and “lesser” troops than Stormtroopers.

Thanks to “Thrawn”.

Navy Troopers with Black Helmets have been a thing since '77.

Just now, Zrob314 said:

Navy Troopers with Black Helmets have been a thing since '77.

Yes, but specifically that they are lesser troops than stormtroopers was the confirmation I was pushing there ?

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Yes, but specifically that they are lesser troops than stormtroopers was the confirmation I was pushing there ?

Also been a thing ever since the expanded universe was created. Sure they put it in the new Thrawn book but it's not really an element that was decanonized per sae because it was never much of a plot point.