5 minutes ago, SOTL said:

The ability to maintain fire on a target with a turret is not fundamentally a problem, so long as it's appropriately costed.

That depends on the cost. I think there should be a possibility to avoid a shot entirely.

Synced turret is actually a nice example with an additional cost of a target lock. Block/stress the Ghost and prevent the action, then flank and get close. It is a good mechanic from a gameplay point of view. But unfortuntately TLT is vastly superior. Also see Citruscannon‘s mod where all turrets out of arc work that way.

37 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Because it's too easy to overnerf something with a too strong change. We have had examples of that in the game.

Most turret ships just don't have the ability to keep targets in arc because they weren't designed to. However they were costed as if they had a turret able to fire 360 degrees all the time.
Take the Patrol Leader decimator. It's 40 points for a large base that, with your simplified rule, couldn't ever fire more than 2 dice out of arc once you get behind it. Is that really worth 40 points anymore?
Is a 1 die at range 2, 2 dice at range 1 Dorsal Turret worth its cost?
You cannot do so drastic changes to the game.

Turret ships are okay as long as they limit themselves to being WWII flying fortresses: clumsy ships that are able to shoot out of arc while being able to "tank" incoming damage from arc dodgers for a limited time.
The problem started when these ships "learned" how to arc dodge (boost, barrel roll), mitigate incoming damage (C-3PO, regen, Senson Jammer+Fenn), lay bombs (K-wing, Scurrg), roll lots of dice (TLT, Ghost+TLT), become immune to bumps while stacking passive modifiers (Maul, Expertise, Ezra); and often all of the previous at the same time.

It is okay to make the choice between arc dodging to avoid incoming fire, a strong out of arc attack, or maneuvering for dropping a devastating bomb. But not everything at the same time, all the time.
By limiting out of arc damage output to greens and no boost/barrel roll, they retain the ability to attack hard out of arc, or arc dodge, or reposition. But they need to make a choice.

Patrol Leader isn't worth 40 points anyway.

Honestly, very few PWTs are actually worth their points. Rey, RAC, the occasional Han and Chewie, and Dengar. Manaroo or Scouts as support ships/HP banks, maybe.

Turret secondary weapons are a much bigger issue.

It's not my preferred fix for any of it by a long shot, but making the wording that long-winded and awkward just seems excessive.

Turrets are part of the rock, paper, scissors mentality. Your idea of arc dodges not getting out of "arc" is part of the appeal of turrets. While arc dodgers are great against other fixed arc ships, their weakness is the turret.

You want to fix them? Give them bonuses like what Dengar or Rey receive. For example, make Old Han's rerolls only work in arc.

But, you don't address turret upgrade cards.

Basically, you complain without offering any REAL, honest potential fix.

I would give 1 extra green dice for anyone defending against weapons out of arc.

I know a simple solution for a complex problem is usually wrong, but I think that one would at least mitigate a little the issue.

18 minutes ago, Odanan said:

I would give 1 extra green dice for anyone defending against weapons out of arc.

I know a simple solution for a complex problem is usually wrong, but I think that one would at least mitigate a little the issue.

That one occurred to me oo, but when you play it through in various scenarios it's probably far too harsh a nerf.

There's no issue whatsoever with a 3 dice primary PWT attacking out of arc.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Patrol Leader isn't worth 40 points anyway.

Honestly, very few PWTs are actually worth their points. Rey , RAC, the occasional Han and Chewie , and Dengar . Manaroo or Scouts as support ships/HP banks, maybe.

Turret secondary weapons are a much bigger issue.

Okay... does it change the argument at all? Is RAC worth whatever RAC costs (46?) if it can only attack with two dice out of arc? What is the chance for it to every getting an in-arc attack past the point the rival ships get behind him?
No, it is not. The ship isn't designed to be able to maneuver to keep targets in arc. Neither is the K-wing, or the classic Falcon, the YT-2400, etc.
If you want to force turret ships to attack in arc, either you give them the tools (new Falcon title), or most of them they will be helpless. The Scurrg is a notable exception.

Quote

It's not my preferred fix for any of it by a long shot, but making the wording that long-winded and awkward just seems excessive.

That was long winded and awkward?

If we want to nerf turret arc dodgers we need to write a rule that targets them and them alone so:

• It needs to specify Small and Large ships, because Huge ships definitely don't need to be nerfed anymore.
• It needs to limit their firepower when arc dodging, so we need to mention Boost and Barrel roll.
• Since most turret ships cannot perform koiograns, talons or segnors, they instead were given an above normal set of white maneuvers so that they could have plenty of choices to flee the close quarters and avoid obstacles and bumps. Many consider unfair that they have such an open dial while at the same time they can fire their full turret to your face. So maybe it would be a good idea to debuff the turret firepower on white and red maneuvers.

That leads to the wording that you find so awkward. What about:
"A ship rolls one fewer attack die when attacking out of arc if it performed a barrel roll or boost or executed a white or red maneuver."
And just assume that it doesn't affect Huge ships...

Well, to conflate my response to what both @Odanan and @Azrapse have said... when I went down the line of thinking of adding green dice out of arc, I found it was too harsh. A turreted ship jinking about the place is going to be harder to fire from, but if you wanted to give yourself a good shot you could make it happen.

"When defending, if you are outside the attackers firing arc you may roll an additional green dice unless the attacker spent a Focus token to modify their attack dice".

So if the turret spends their actions boost/barreling they lose the option to focus and have meaningfully worse attacks. But if the turret wants to deal damage it can take a focus token and deal damage.

But, again, I think the rules for turrets are probably close to fine and if you wanted to nerf HLC/TLT I'd prefer to do it via a slice across the Secondary Weapons segment of the venn diagram to catch Missiles/Torps as well.

21 hours ago, citruscannon said:

This is what we did in ours, it works really well.

Granted, we've also rebalanced a lot of cards to make it even more streamlined, but this would still work in regular X-Wing casual games.

How do you handle the Attack Shuttle?

12 hours ago, Cloaker said:

How do you handle the Attack Shuttle?

I am not understanding the rule, or the Auzituk Gunship cannot fire at targets on its 180 degree arc unless you equip the Targeting Computer modification?

12 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

I am not understanding the rule, or the Auzituk Gunship cannot fire at targets on its 180 degree arc unless you equip the Targeting Computer modification?

In X-wing, if you were to use it, then yes.

In the mod however, the statlines of each ship are adjusted with this rule in mind. So the Auzituck, which we're about at least a year away from at this point since we're only on wave 2, would likely be given the tL action in the bar.

15 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

I am not understanding the rule, or the Auzituk Gunship cannot fire at targets on its 180 degree arc unless you equip the Targeting Computer modification?

Yes. As written, that rule means the auxiliary arc serves only to define the limits of the reinforce action.

5 minutes ago, citruscannon said:

In X-wing, if you were to use it, then yes.

In the mod however, the statlines of each ship are adjusted with this rule in mind. So the Auzituck, which we're about at least a year away from at this point since we're only on wave 2, would likely be given the tL action in the bar.

This reads to me as only applying to turrets, FWIW, either primary or secondary. Looking at the page posted above, I wouldn't assume that auxiliary arcs were affected by this rule.

13 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

This reads to me as only applying to turrets, FWIW, either primary or secondary. Looking at the page posted above, I wouldn't assume that auxiliary arcs were affected by this rule.

Only that it explicitly mentions that it affects auxiliary arcs in like the first sentence?

The title of the section is 'turrets'.

If my ship doesn't have a turret primary or turret slot, why should I read it at all?

(Yes, I missed that. But that's why. Calling the section 'turrets and auxiliary arcs' would be much clearer.)