4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Possibly toss in, say, Dace Bonearm in a Y-Wing?

Man, Dace in a Y-Wing with Ion Turret and Unhinged Astro would be pretty fun.

Free title that is literally just DEADEYE

3 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

They should. A price for Sabine's TIE

Wait, so no imperial VCX100?

4 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

They should. A price for Sabine's TIE

We will gladly give it back to you if you don’t ruin the imperial aesthetic with the ARC.

22 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

We will gladly give it back to you if you don’t ruin the imperial aesthetic with the ARC.

As if that was an option?

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

As if that was an option?

You have no idea how badly I wish it was.

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

We will gladly give it back to you if you don’t ruin the imperial aesthetic with the ARC.

Not wanting to be drawn into the argument (not to mention further derailing this Y-Wing topic), but an ARC painted in Gamma Sqdn Vet colours would look quite cool (that mid-grey with a pair of white stripes on the wings).

The ( @Commander Kaine ) idea of replacing the Droid with a System is kind of neat too - am curious what builds would be made with some of the Imp Only crew (but are the best options already generic?). The only drawback is without Overhaul it's another Att 2 ship (you'd just end up with AC stapled on).

12 minutes ago, ABXY said:

Not wanting to be drawn into the argument, but an ARC painted in Gamma Sqdn Vet colours would look quite cool (that mid-grey with a pair of white stripes on the wings).

The idea of replacing the Droid with a System is kind of neat too - am curious what builds would be made with some of the Imp Only crew (but are the best options already generic?). The only drawback is without Overhaul it's another Att 2 ship (you'd just end up with AC stapled on).

Imperial Refit

When attacking with a primary weapon from your primary firing arc, you may roll 1 additional attack die. When attacking from your auxiliary firing arc you may turn a blank result to a [hit] result.

It's more accurate, but less damaging. A fair trade off I think.

I'm not sure AC is worth it on the chassis. Too expensive ship to deal only 2 hits a turn.

2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

My aptly named friend, you are so bad at this.

You wanna talk about a "lot of hoop"? What was your previous comment then, minor things you've noticed? No, you came and wrote half a page full of questionable rhetoric, ignoring several aspects of the argument, providing an unfair representation of the issue. Then I explained to you why those things don't hold up.

As if saying "final statement" is a way to save face. No, my friend, you need to own up to your BS. If you ignore certain aspects, and get called out for it, the appropriate reaction is not to cowardly hide behind an "authority".

FFG doesn't matter. For several reasons. A, it's not like they are perfect... They can make mistakes, and in my opinion, have, especially regarding this. B, FFG didn't come here and claim that the Empire will never get the ARC, or that they shouldn't. You did. That was your opinion. It is not FFG's job to defend your views. That is yours.

So, I ask again... Why do YOU think the imperials shouldn't get the ARC, when also viewing the following facts: Mechanic overlap already exists, The game handles a timespan when said ship was under the control of said faction, prominently, multi-faction ships already exist, with different abilities no less, and the game already breaks thematic elements left and right.

(And before you come at me for going for the easy pickings of your name... I wouldn't have done so, if you gave reasonable arguments that don't have to ignore half of the existing game just to hold up. And if you are irritated by people calling you out on your less than stellar argumentative techniques, be better.)

I told you why I think they shouldn't have the ARC. I don't need to defend my opinion, FFG gave the ARC to the Rebellion and rightly sodding so.

As for the name thing... Dude, duh. Y'think anybody'd pick that name without like, good reason? And what, you think FFG will still ever give The Empire the ARC? What other instance than the TIE Fighter is there of The Empire or Rebellion trading ships? Scum gets Rebel ships, but that's Scum. They had to, to get half their faction made and Imperial stuff sure as **** didn't fit did it? Wouldn't be surprised to see them with the Gunboat someday though.

I just can't see The Empire ever getting the ARC outside of some bizarre technicality where the early empire becomes a faction, which sure as **** won't be happening before the Clone Wars content is ever introduced in its proper era, rather than carried over. ****, quote me on that, I'll stand confidently by that assertion. Just remember, they'd need a precedent to release ARCs for The Empire.

And it'd probably have to be with another ship. Maybe the V-Wing if Scum gets that (Because given its astromech slot, I don't see The Empire getting it either, and it'd be a fun Clone Wars option for Scum as well. Likewise I could see The Empire getting the ETA-2 Actis, but of course, those also have astromechs, so maybe not. There's a recurring problem here.)

More features about the ARC fit the Rebellion's mindset than will ever be made to fit The Empire's. That's the problem here, dude. The ARC naturally fits it but for it to fit The Empire, you'd have to make it fit, you'd have to trim the sodding thing. I'm also gonna' draw attention to...



The Alliance Overhaul card, which does the neat little trick of making its primary 3 but keeping its aux 2. Alliance Overhaul.

Just, sit on that term for a while and it's hugely rebel themed art, and really consider all the reasons they gave the ARC to The Rebellion, even to the point of including their signature starbird emblem and a weathered paintjob.

Clearly, I am with FFG / FFG is with me, on this one. The ARC was properly Rebel.

4 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I told you why I think they shouldn't have the ARC. I don't need to defend my opinion, FFG gave the ARC to the Rebellion and rightly sodding so.

As for the name thing... Dude, duh. Y'think anybody'd pick that name without like, good reason? And what, you think FFG will still ever give The Empire the ARC? What other instance than the TIE Fighter is there of The Empire or Rebellion trading ships? Scum gets Rebel ships, but that's Scum. They had to, to get half their faction made and Imperial stuff sure as **** didn't fit did it? Wouldn't be surprised to see them with the Gunboat someday though.

I just can't see The Empire ever getting the ARC outside of some bizarre technicality where the early empire becomes a faction, which sure as **** won't be happening before the Clone Wars content is ever introduced in its proper era, rather than carried over. ****, quote me on that, I'll stand confidently by that assertion. Just remember, they'd need a precedent to release ARCs for The Empire.

And it'd probably have to be with another ship. Maybe the V-Wing if Scum gets that (Because given its astromech slot, I don't see The Empire getting it either, and it'd be a fun Clone Wars option for Scum as well. Likewise I could see The Empire getting the ETA-2 Actis, but of course, those also have astromechs, so maybe not. There's a recurring problem here.)

More features about the ARC fit the Rebellion's mindset than will ever be made to fit The Empire's. That's the problem here, dude. The ARC naturally fits it but for it to fit The Empire, you'd have to make it fit, you'd have to trim the sodding thing. I'm also gonna' draw attention to...



The Alliance Overhaul card, which does the neat little trick of making its primary 3 but keeping its aux 2. Alliance Overhaul.

Just, sit on that term for a while and it's hugely rebel themed art, and really consider all the reasons they gave the ARC to The Rebellion, even to the point of including their signature starbird emblem and a weathered paintjob.

Clearly, I am with FFG / FFG is with me, on this one. The ARC was properly Rebel.

As I said before... Everything makes sense if you conveniently ignore data.

Yes, ASIDE from Sabine's TIE , there is no other example of a famous ship from one faction being in another. (for like... 2 more weeks when we get Scum Solo news)... But then again, if we don't count all those times when people died from suffocation, technically we can live underwater.

Did they have a good reason to include it in game? No, not really. There are many candidates for the role of the rebel tie. There is nothing unique about the TIE fighter that makes it better for it. Was it the first or the most prominent time when rebels stole imperial craft? No. the OT has them beat on that one as well. It was 2 random episodes in a forgettable children's cartoon. The same rebels stole many other imperial craft as well, and nobody would bat an eye if those ship's weren't included.

In short, your point of there not being any justification for the ARC, holds up on every point against Sabine's TIE. And there is no reason to say Sabine's TIE makes sense as a precedent in the framework you provided, only that so you can ignore it when I ask about it.

And no, not even: "They have a contract about the number of Rebels ships they have to release" argument works, because there are many better candidates, especially for a repack (Because Sabine's TIE is a repack... A phoenix Squadron A-Wing would have been much more fitting, and more needed)

So, why would I have to give you another reason, aside from the TIE fighter? Why isn't the TIE fighter considered enough precedent?

Oh yeah, because if it does, none of what you say makes sense.

44 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

As I said before... Everything makes sense if you conveniently ignore data.

Yes, ASIDE from Sabine's TIE , there is no other example of a famous ship from one faction being in another. (for like... 2 more weeks when we get Scum Solo news)... But then again, if we don't count all those times when people died from suffocation, technically we can live underwater.

Did they have a good reason to include it in game? No, not really. There are many candidates for the role of the rebel tie. There is nothing unique about the TIE fighter that makes it better for it. Was it the first or the most prominent time when rebels stole imperial craft? No. the OT has them beat on that one as well. It was 2 random episodes in a forgettable children's cartoon. The same rebels stole many other imperial craft as well, and nobody would bat an eye if those ship's weren't included.

In short, your point of there not being any justification for the ARC, holds up on every point against Sabine's TIE. And there is no reason to say Sabine's TIE makes sense as a precedent in the framework you provided, only that so you can ignore it when I ask about it.

And no, not even: "They have a contract about the number of Rebels ships they have to release" argument works, because there are many better candidates, especially for a repack (Because Sabine's TIE is a repack... A phoenix Squadron A-Wing would have been much more fitting, and more needed)

So, why would I have to give you another reason, aside from the TIE fighter? Why isn't the TIE fighter considered enough precedent?

Oh yeah, because if it does, none of what you say makes sense.

You know the funny part? Each one of the Sabine TIE pilots is unique. Each and every single one. It's not about making a "Rebel TIE". Sabine's TIE is a unique ship . You're not meant to field more than one- and what you're doing is using a personalized, unique example against... A whole bunch of very similar ships of which there are countless built. It's the very definition of false equivalence. The Rebellion probably stole more than one TIE Fighter, but there's only one of Sabine's TIE- thus, it is unique enough to be fielded by The Rebellion. Besides. It doesn't even, gameplay wise, fill the same role as a TIE. Thing can carry crew, for god's sake.

Though your complete irreverence towards Rebels as source material "Forgettable children's cartoon" speaks volumes of the bias in your argument against content from it, which makes me question your use of the Sabine TIE as an example. I will say that it is a wonder that the Tydirium didn't make it into XWMG, but quite frankly, it sounds like you'd be mad about that too. "Compensation for Sabine's TIE" being what I would point to.

Of course, I assume you'd be okay with it, since that's Film content over, "Forgettable Children's Cartoon" content. (Forgetting how very kiddy Star Wars can be at times, and how we formed our bonds, universally, with the series, as children rather than as adults, tainting our perspective and ability to be objective.)

And the TIE Fighter isn't enough precedent for the ARC-170 to be Imperial. You know why? Imperials don't use Rebel stuff or ever really steal much back. Don't use something as incredibly important as the Death Star plans as an example, either. That'd be just, egregiously lacking in scope.

Once again?

Theme.

What can Rebels do with a stolen TIE Fighter? How can they make it theirs, and not The Empire's? How can they utilize it in ways The Empire would never dream of? These are things Rebels do. Imperials... Advance. Iterate. Show me anything older than the TIE/LN they insist on the continued use of in XWMG. Please, I'll wait. Aside from the hired out Firespray-31...

Not a single vessel in The Galactic Empire's arsenal in the X-Wing Miniatures game predates The Galactic Empire itself.

Please remember that. It all starts with the TIE/LN, the beginning of the new era. They use nothing old, and even The First Order still uses symbols of The Galactic Empire. You can completely excuse mixed squads- as while they would not entirely be up to First Order standards... I can fully buy First Order pilots of some sect somewhere using TIE/LNs if they so desperately desired to. Their reverence is a nearly religious one!

But it never goes past The Galactic Empire. Neither will the ships in XWMG, nor should they. The Empire is rigid, its ships are a statement, and to use symbols of The Galactic Republic would be to allow the ideas of The Republic to persist. Something The Empire cannot and will not allow.

Ideas The Alliance to Restore The Republic MUST keep alive.

10 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You know the funny part? Each one of the Sabine TIE pilots is unique. Each and every single one. It's not about making a "Rebel TIE". Sabine's TIE is a unique ship . You're not meant to field more than one- and what you're doing is using a personalized, unique example against... A whole bunch of very similar ships of which there are countless built. It's the very definition of false equivalence. The Rebellion probably stole more than one TIE Fighter, but there's only one of Sabine's TIE- thus, it is unique enough to be fielded by The Rebellion. Besides. It doesn't even, gameplay wise, fill the same role as a TIE. Thing can carry crew, for god's sake.

Though your complete irreverence towards Rebels as source material "Forgettable children's cartoon" speaks volumes of the bias in your argument against content from it, which makes me question your use of the Sabine TIE as an example. I will say that it is a wonder that the Tydirium didn't make it into XWMG, but quite frankly, it sounds like you'd be mad about that too. "Compensation for Sabine's TIE" being what I would point to.

Of course, I assume you'd be okay with it, since that's Film content over, "Forgettable Children's Cartoon" content. (Forgetting how very kiddy Star Wars can be at times, and how we formed our bonds, universally, with the series, as children rather than as adults, tainting our perspective and ability to be objective.)

And the TIE Fighter isn't enough precedent for the ARC-170 to be Imperial. You know why? Imperials don't use Rebel stuff or ever really steal much back. Don't use something as incredibly important as the Death Star plans as an example, either. That'd be just, egregiously lacking in scope.

Once again?

Theme.

What can Rebels do with a stolen TIE Fighter? How can they make it theirs, and not The Empire's? How can they utilize it in ways The Empire would never dream of? These are things Rebels do. Imperials... Advance. Iterate. Show me anything older than the TIE/LN they insist on the continued use of in XWMG. Please, I'll wait. Aside from the hired out Firespray-31...

Not a single vessel in The Galactic Empire's arsenal in the X-Wing Miniatures game predates The Galactic Empire itself.

Please remember that. It all starts with the TIE/LN, the beginning of the new era. They use nothing old, and even The First Order still uses symbols of The Galactic Empire. You can completely excuse mixed squads- as while they would not entirely be up to First Order standards... I can fully buy First Order pilots of some sect somewhere using TIE/LNs if they so desperately desired to. Their reverence is a nearly religious one!

But it never goes past The Galactic Empire. Neither will the ships in XWMG, nor should they. The Empire is rigid, its ships are a statement, and to use symbols of The Galactic Republic would be to allow the ideas of The Republic to persist. Something The Empire cannot and will not allow.

Ideas The Alliance to Restore The Republic MUST keep alive.

While I do agree with one of y’all, it’s clear you aren’t gonna change each other’s minds so just drop it.

9 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You know the funny part? Each one of the Sabine TIE pilots is unique. Each and every single one. It's not about making a "Rebel TIE". Sabine's TIE is a unique ship . You're not meant to field more than one- and what you're doing is using a personalized, unique example against... A whole bunch of very similar ships of which there are countless built. It's the very definition of false equivalence. The Rebellion probably stole more than one TIE Fighter, but there's only one of Sabine's TIE- thus, it is unique enough to be fielded by The Rebellion. Besides. It doesn't even, gameplay wise, fill the same role as a TIE. Thing can carry crew, for god's sake.

Though your complete irreverence towards Rebels as source material "Forgettable children's cartoon" speaks volumes of the bias in your argument against content from it, which makes me question your use of the Sabine TIE as an example. I will say that it is a wonder that the Tydirium didn't make it into XWMG, but quite frankly, it sounds like you'd be mad about that too. "Compensation for Sabine's TIE" being what I would point to.

Of course, I assume you'd be okay with it, since that's Film content over, "Forgettable Children's Cartoon" content. (Forgetting how very kiddy Star Wars can be at times, and how we formed our bonds, universally, with the series, as children rather than as adults, tainting our perspective and ability to be objective.)

And the TIE Fighter isn't enough precedent for the ARC-170 to be Imperial. You know why? Imperials don't use Rebel stuff or ever really steal much back. Don't use something as incredibly important as the Death Star plans as an example, either. That'd be just, egregiously lacking in scope.

Once again?

Theme.

What can Rebels do with a stolen TIE Fighter? How can they make it theirs, and not The Empire's? How can they utilize it in ways The Empire would never dream of? These are things Rebels do. Imperials... Advance. Iterate. Show me anything older than the TIE/LN they insist on the continued use of in XWMG. Please, I'll wait. Aside from the hired out Firespray-31...

Not a single vessel in The Galactic Empire's arsenal in the X-Wing Miniatures game predates The Galactic Empire itself.

Please remember that. It all starts with the TIE/LN, the beginning of the new era. They use nothing old, and even The First Order still uses symbols of The Galactic Empire. You can completely excuse mixed squads- as while they would not entirely be up to First Order standards... I can fully buy First Order pilots of some sect somewhere using TIE/LNs if they so desperately desired to. Their reverence is a nearly religious one!

But it never goes past The Galactic Empire. Neither will the ships in XWMG, nor should they. The Empire is rigid, its ships are a statement, and to use symbols of The Galactic Republic would be to allow the ideas of The Republic to persist. Something The Empire cannot and will not allow.

Ideas The Alliance to Restore The Republic MUST keep alive.

Your memory is akin to a goldfish's

I told you before. We have examples of ships from all over the place. For the longest time, the Empire was all about the basic TIE. In the last few years, after yavin, they began using more advanced stuff. That doesn't make the TIE Phantom any less imperial. And you keep forgetting, that the Empire has used republic craft for years. Most later models of the TIE series weren't in circulation longer than Imperial used republic ships.

Yet again, you are arbitrarily drawing a line in the sand, based on nothing but your bias. "Imps wouldn't use the ARC, because I say so" is your argument, basically, which ignores the fact that they HAVE used the ARC. You conveniently phrase your points around this. Since they switched to TIE-s, they used nothing but TIE-s... Well really? Is that how it works? Were they not called the Empire then? Oh they were.

And you just claimed that we will not get any content from that era, because you don't think we will... Well, people shared similar ideas about EU ships after the new movies started pouring in. Never say never.

And yes, you are right. I don't like rebels. So what? I like the ships from them. I wish they included more... I want a Hera X-Wing pilot, etc. I don't like the Phantom Menace, but I would like Leia in an N1. I would also like Vader in an Eta-2. Me not liking rebels, is completely irrelevant. I like the ships.

I don’t know, but I was a little sad when the rebel rogue one expansion turned out to be partisan x wings and u wings instead of rebel x wings and y wings.

Not sure how we got to imperial arcs, but yeah you're never going to see them

Not because of theme or w.e, but because we already got them

They're just called TIE/SF

Remember, Game design >>>>>>>>> fluff, always

Also we're getting a U in Saw's because it needs a lot more help than the Y (also because REBELs. It's not a rogue1 expac)

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Not sure how we got to imperial arcs, but yeah you're never going to see them

Not because of theme or w.e, but because we already got them

They're just called TIE/SF

Remember, Game design >>>>>>>>> fluff, always

Also we're getting a U in Saw's because it needs a lot more help than the Y (also because REBELs. It's not a rogue1 expac)

I don't think that bothers FFG. There are ships that are more similar than those two in the same faction, Nym for example. Nym is a rebel ship also, for some reason, despite them having a very similar craft already.

Yeah, fluff is there to support it, but there is fluff for a lot of things, and if Nym is enough of a justification to make it rebel as well, Imperial ARC-s are about the same.

not really

to integrate just Nym into rebels is FAR simpler than designing a redundant ship expac. they just slapped rebel Nym on as a part of the scum expac and let fly, which kind of explains why poor genius had to get beat with the errata stick

more importantly, Rebels did not have a Nym prior and neither did scum. Empire already has an "ARC", as it fits into nearly the same design space as the SF (small base, rear-facing aux arc)

currently, the only redundant ship design is the ARC/sheathe, which are supposed to be distinguished by the fact that the ARC is a combat ship but...yeah no, the sheathe is basically power creep over all the non-Norra ARCs. not happy about that

on a side note, surprised we're not hearing more about FAA TLT Ys. Granted, they're not as immediately atrociously stupid as some of the meta stuff, but I'd be flabbergasted if even a half-decent player couldn't do well with them

34 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

not really

to integrate just Nym into rebels is FAR simpler than designing a redundant ship expac. they just slapped rebel Nym on as a part of the scum expac and let fly, which kind of explains why poor genius had to get beat with the errata stick

more importantly, Rebels did not have a Nym prior and neither did scum. Empire already has an "ARC", as it fits into nearly the same design space as the SF (small base, rear-facing aux arc)

currently, the only redundant ship design is the ARC/sheathe, which are supposed to be distinguished by the fact that the ARC is a combat ship but...yeah no, the sheathe is basically power creep over all the non-Norra ARCs. not happy about that

on a side note, surprised we're not hearing more about FAA TLT Ys. Granted, they're not as immediately atrociously stupid as some of the meta stuff, but I'd be flabbergasted if even a half-decent player couldn't do well with them

I mean.. They didn't have a "Nym" perse, but they had a heavy bomber with missiles, turrets and high PS.

I mean. The K-Wing is as good a comparison to the Scurrg as the ARC to the SF.

Redundant ships? I'm not sure what you mean by that, to me the ARC and Sheathe seems really different. They have the same firing arcs, but I'd say ships are more than just their arcs.

I agree with what most have said here.

As long as TLT remains as is, y-wing will always be very strong as a turret ship. And the BTL title from wave 6 still is great at making them strong jousters, minus their dial being weak.

If TLT ever gets nerfed maybe some people would try using them as cheap torpedo boats. They are the same base price as gunboats afterall. If they add new pilots eventually and make a mid PS generic with an EPT then deadeye y-wings with protons or plasmas could be a thing.

So in short: No buffs needed, even if TLT gets nerfed. More pilots for both factions would be great, and a few more with EPT's would be nice.

24 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

I mean.. They didn't have a "Nym" perse, but they had a heavy bomber with missiles, turrets and high PS.

I mean. The K-Wing is as good a comparison to the Scurrg as the ARC to the SF.

Redundant ships? I'm not sure what you mean by that, to me the ARC and Sheathe seems really different. They have the same firing arcs, but I'd say ships are more than just their arcs.

the havoc is completely and utterly alien to the K-wing. the combination of system and salvaged is unique in rebels and offers up a far different bomber than the SLAM + regen capable miranda

meanwhile, the ARC and the Sheathe have

a.) small bases

b.) rear facing auxiliary arcs
c.) 2 die primaries
e.) the same dang upgrade slots, minus the largely worthless single torp slot

therefore, redundant. The sheathe is strictly better in just about every capacity but for Norra's ability to do work as a regen tank. Getting a single primary out the front doesn't nearly cover the marked increase in utility and decrease in price. Even the dials are markedly similar

18 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

the havoc is completely and utterly alien to the K-wing. the combination of system and salvaged is unique in rebels and offers up a far different bomber than the SLAM + regen capable miranda

meanwhile, the ARC and the Sheathe have

a.) small bases

b.) rear facing auxiliary arcs
c.) 2 die primaries
e.) the same dang upgrade slots, minus the largely worthless single torp slot

therefore, redundant. The sheathe is strictly better in just about every capacity but for Norra's ability to do work as a regen tank. Getting a single primary out the front doesn't nearly cover the marked increase in utility and decrease in price. Even the dials are markedly similar

They don't all have 3 dice primary... It's a technicality, but the ARC has way more firepower on both arcs. And health also. Plus coordinate on the bug.

The ARC contributes by dealing damage. The Pede contributes by support.

While they have similar upgrade bars, their functions are very different, and they are built differently. If you have all three (counting elite) slots filled, the ships are barely anything like each other.

I see what you mean, I just don't see how that translates to either ship being redundant.

3 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Your memory is akin to a goldfish's

I told you before. We have examples of ships from all over the place. For the longest time, the Empire was all about the basic TIE. In the last few years, after yavin, they began using more advanced stuff. That doesn't make the TIE Phantom any less imperial. And you keep forgetting, that the Empire has used republic craft for years. Most later models of the TIE series weren't in circulation longer than Imperial used republic ships.

Yet again, you are arbitrarily drawing a line in the sand, based on nothing but your bias. "Imps wouldn't use the ARC, because I say so" is your argument, basically, which ignores the fact that they HAVE used the ARC. You conveniently phrase your points around this. Since they switched to TIE-s, they used nothing but TIE-s... Well really? Is that how it works? Were they not called the Empire then? Oh they were.

And you just claimed that we will not get any content from that era, because you don't think we will... Well, people shared similar ideas about EU ships after the new movies started pouring in. Never say never.

And yes, you are right. I don't like rebels. So what? I like the ships from them. I wish they included more... I want a Hera X-Wing pilot, etc. I don't like the Phantom Menace, but I would like Leia in an N1. I would also like Vader in an Eta-2. Me not liking rebels, is completely irrelevant. I like the ships.

You have resorted to insults twice in this debate. I'm not offended, mind you. But it does show a distinct lack of objectivity. I'm gonna' break things down then.

>In the last few years, after yavin, they began using more advanced stuff. That doesn't make the TIE Phantom any less imperial.

Curiously I said nothing about them not using advanced things, did I? The TIE Phantom, Defender, Aggressor, even the Interceptor, all count as advanced craft. You could and should even include the TIE Advanced. Why put words in my mouth if not to try and create an argument that doesn't exist?

>your argument, basically, which ignores the fact that they HAVE used the ARC. You conveniently phrase your points around this. Since they switched to TIE-s, they used nothing but TIE-s... Well really? Is that how it works? Were they not called the Empire then? Oh they were.

Duh? They were using it during a transition period. I'm unsure if you're perfectly aware of how ships work but... It's not like Transformers. They've got to use what they have until the new gear rolls in. Which it did, and immediately supplanted all old equipment when it did. I mean by your logic, The Empire should maybe still be using Phase II armor, DC-15A and Cs, AT-TEs, Venators, Acclamators, AT-RTs, and so on, because it once did. Times change. Doctrines change. They change in ways that obsolete and or disallow old technologies. It is as clear cut and dry as that. The Galactic Empire has literally zero use for...

A three seater astromech compatible hyperdrive capable heavily armored and shielded multi-gunned fightercraft with a heavy emphasis on flexibility and durability with a variety of combat profiles, that is notoriously difficult to repair and maintain, and is not based upon the new TIE/LN platform of which many (though not all ) Imperial craft are based upon. It isn't practical for The Galactic Empire.

>And you just claimed that we will not get any content from that era, because you don't think we will... Well, people shared similar ideas about EU ships after the new movies started pouring in. Never say never.

Not what I said either. I said we're unlikely to get "Early Empire" subfactions because it hardly makes any sense. The game is the timeline going forward, never backwards. Yes, old ships appear, but very rarely with their iconic period-appropriate pilots. I saw Shara Bey in the ARC-170 instead of Oddball, and anybody who ever said the EU ships were going to stop coming were just... Wrong. Decades of iconic OT-era content abandoned because they make-believe-mouse-that-everyone-vilifies says so? Hardly. Definitely never.

>I like the ships from them. I wish they included more... I want a Hera X-Wing pilot, etc. I don't like the Phantom Menace, but I would like Leia in an N1. I would also like Vader in an Eta-2. Me not liking rebels, is completely irrelevant. I like the ships.

On this, we are agreed. 100%, even. I simply feel that your bias against such content makes you devalue it and lower the chances of objectivity.

The Imperial ARC-170 just isn't likely to happen. There's no reason for it. The Galactic Empire has three craft with Auxiliary arcs now (two of which that see semi-regular play.) I get it, it'd be neat to have and I won't deny that, but it just fits the Rebel design space more.

4 hours ago, sf1raptor said:

While I do agree with one of y’all, it’s clear you aren’t gonna change each other’s minds so just drop it.

I wish I could but I'm notoriously headstrong. I'm fine to agree to disagree, however.

But as long as I am being personally insulted every reply, I don't know how possible that actually is.

6 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You have resorted to insults twice in this debate. I'm not offended, mind you. But it does show a distinct lack of objectivity. I'm gonna' break things down then.

>In the last few years, after yavin, they began using more advanced stuff. That doesn't make the TIE Phantom any less imperial.

Curiously I said nothing about them not using advanced things, did I? The TIE Phantom, Defender, Aggressor, even the Interceptor, all count as advanced craft. You could and should even include the TIE Advanced. Why put words in my mouth if not to try and create an argument that doesn't exist?

>your argument, basically, which ignores the fact that they HAVE used the ARC. You conveniently phrase your points around this. Since they switched to TIE-s, they used nothing but TIE-s... Well really? Is that how it works? Were they not called the Empire then? Oh they were.

Duh? They were using it during a transition period. I'm unsure if you're perfectly aware of how ships work but... It's not like Transformers. They've got to use what they have until the new gear rolls in. Which it did, and immediately supplanted all old equipment when it did. I mean by your logic, The Empire should maybe still be using Phase II armor, DC-15A and Cs, AT-TEs, Venators, Acclamators, AT-RTs, and so on, because it once did. Times change. Doctrines change. They change in ways that obsolete and or disallow old technologies. It is as clear cut and dry as that. The Galactic Empire has literally zero use for...

A three seater astromech compatible hyperdrive capable heavily armored and shielded multi-gunned fightercraft with a heavy emphasis on flexibility and durability with a variety of combat profiles, that is notoriously difficult to repair and maintain, and is not based upon the new TIE/LN platform of which many (though not all ) Imperial craft are based upon. It isn't practical for The Galactic Empire.

>And you just claimed that we will not get any content from that era, because you don't think we will... Well, people shared similar ideas about EU ships after the new movies started pouring in. Never say never.

Not what I said either. I said we're unlikely to get "Early Empire" subfactions because it hardly makes any sense. The game is the timeline going forward, never backwards. Yes, old ships appear, but very rarely with their iconic period-appropriate pilots. I saw Shara Bey in the ARC-170 instead of Oddball, and anybody who ever said the EU ships were going to stop coming were just... Wrong. Decades of iconic OT-era content abandoned because they make-believe-mouse-that-everyone-vilifies says so? Hardly. Definitely never.

>I like the ships from them. I wish they included more... I want a Hera X-Wing pilot, etc. I don't like the Phantom Menace, but I would like Leia in an N1. I would also like Vader in an Eta-2. Me not liking rebels, is completely irrelevant. I like the ships.

On this, we are agreed. 100%, even. I simply feel that your bias against such content makes you devalue it and lower the chances of objectivity.

The Imperial ARC-170 just isn't likely to happen. There's no reason for it. The Galactic Empire has three craft with Auxiliary arcs now (two of which that see semi-regular play.) I get it, it'd be neat to have and I won't deny that, but it just fits the Rebel design space more.

I wish I could but I'm notoriously headstrong. I'm fine to agree to disagree, however.

But as long as I am being personally insulted every reply, I don't know how possible that actually is.

You don't get insulted, you get called out for ignoring my points. Now, I assume you do this because you lack the ability to remember, because if I assume you are doing it on purpose, I can't believe you are doing this debate in good faith.

But since you do ignore my points, I have to make up an explanation for it. I am however, open to your alternative solutions to this problem.

Now, allow me to answer (similarly stubborn... I can't let it go either)

The point of bringing up the timeline of advanced craft, was to showcase that in the time line, advanced models of the TIE series and Clone wars tech, existed roughly for the same period of the time, one in the beginning, one in the end of the Empire. Nothing else.

Now, the reason this is important, is because we also get older ships for every faction, and the game's time line does not progress forward at all.

The striker is pre-yavin. The Solo movie is pre-yavin. Rebels is pre-yavin. All this content is technically older craft. These serve as examples of how the timeline is NOT linear.

This was also mentioned by me before, I was talking about the doctrine differences of the early and then late Empire as well as Rebels. They both changed a lot before, during and after the war. To assume they only had 1 type of doctrine is wrong, and to assume that the game follows this, is even wronger.

The rebels get Saw's rebels, which are a ragtag group of guerillas from before Yavin, and advanced fighters from the later stages of the war. These are not the same doctrine. It changes. And we got the advanced fighters before. Also, the whole presence of the Rebels cartoon is proof that the timeline is not linear, and the connected X-Wing products also extrapolate this to our game.

I admit I am biased against rebel scum, and dirty pirates, and that in my view, there is only one option in a galaxy far far away... But that doesn't mean my arguments are flawed.

The thing is, your statements do not hold up to reality. I think I demonstrated that in this comment about your ideas about timelines. You say one thing, but it is objectively not true.

And, to answer one of your earlier posts: You were talking about how Sabine's TIE is unique, and all pilots are unique. Do you know which 1 other rebel ship is like that, that was also used by the empire in mass?

Yup.

7 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

You don't get insulted, you get called out for ignoring my points. Now, I assume you do this because you lack the ability to remember, because if I assume you are doing it on purpose, I can't believe you are doing this debate in good faith.

But since you do ignore my points, I have to make up an explanation for it. I am however, open to your alternative solutions to this problem.

Now, allow me to answer (similarly stubborn... I can't let it go either)

The point of bringing up the timeline of advanced craft, was to showcase that in the time line, advanced models of the TIE series and Clone wars tech, existed roughly for the same period of the time, one in the beginning, one in the end of the Empire. Nothing else.

Now, the reason this is important, is because we also get older ships for every faction, and the game's time line does not progress forward at all.

The striker is pre-yavin. The Solo movie is pre-yavin. Rebels is pre-yavin. All this content is technically older craft. These serve as examples of how the timeline is NOT linear.

This was also mentioned by me before, I was talking about the doctrine differences of the early and then late Empire as well as Rebels. They both changed a lot before, during and after the war. To assume they only had 1 type of doctrine is wrong, and to assume that the game follows this, is even wronger.

The rebels get Saw's rebels, which are a ragtag group of guerillas from before Yavin, and advanced fighters from the later stages of the war. These are not the same doctrine. It changes. And we got the advanced fighters before. Also, the whole presence of the Rebels cartoon is proof that the timeline is not linear, and the connected X-Wing products also extrapolate this to our game.

I admit I am biased against rebel scum, and dirty pirates, and that in my view, there is only one option in a galaxy far far away... But that doesn't mean my arguments are flawed.

The thing is, your statements do not hold up to reality. I think I demonstrated that in this comment about your ideas about timelines. You say one thing, but it is objectively not true.

And, to answer one of your earlier posts: You were talking about how Sabine's TIE is unique, and all pilots are unique. Do you know which 1 other rebel ship is like that, that was also used by the empire in mass?

Yup.

That's completely invalid as a comparison. Those are Rebels. They aren't unified by one government. Mostly just a belief. Each cell has different ways of fighting. What is the actual point here? Also, this whole... Not linear thing... Like, what? What in the world are you even saying? Are you now trying to state with Rebels, Solo, Rogue One, etc, that ANYTHING pre-Yavin is "Older" technology?

That's

That's absolutely silly. That's all I can take from this... p o s t. You keep making up things like, nonlinear timelines- what, did the World between Worlds get you that confused, or something? This line of thought makes no sense, dude. I know the game's "Timeline doesn't progress forward". But you know what? It isn't about the tech, and I'm not asserting that the game's timeline only moves chronologically in concurrence with the content. That'd be asinine. I'm saying that a mutli-man vessel with astromechs, shielding, hyperdrive, etc, makes zero sense for The Empire.

Why can't you understand that? And you can't believe somebody is making an argument against your viewpoint, in good faith? You think I'm pulling your leg because I see things differently from you..? With all due respect, you really are an Imperial player if that's how you see this argument.

And that's coming from a person who's crafting their own stormtrooper legion! Get a grip on it man, nobody ever said this game progresses alongside the films chronologically. I can't even believe that's what you were trying to say. If it was...


>The thing is, your statements do not hold up to reality

Applies right back to you. You keep on going about this in the coarse manner because somebody fundamentally disagrees with you, and you show a continued unwillingness to agree to disagree, you seem to think I am positively bonkers for believing things you don't believe are true. Is that any way to live? To face adversity with disbelief and debasement? Dude. Like. Dude. Really.

Also how the **** am I ignoring your points if I'm highlighting and addressing them directly? We are seeing the same words on the screen right? Not some kind of bizarre... Alternate reality effect going on? Because I'm pretty sure that's the only way for you to have completely disregarded the objective fact that I've addressed- and quite frankly, thusly dismissed with logic supported by the lore, game and other materials.

And, to answer one of your earlier posts: You were talking about how Sabine's TIE is unique, and all pilots are unique. Do you know which 1 other rebel ship is like that, that was also used by the empire in mass?

Yup.

Yeah The Imperial Shuttle, particularly Tydirium. I know you're new here but... I joined in wave 3, alright? You know that people really wanted a Tydirium title? They really, really really wanted to have a Rebel Shuttle. But they will never get it, no matter how film or lore accurate it is. You know why?

We too, have a similarly useless brick of a shuttle for our faction. Sometimes, you don't get what you want, even if you should or some type of logic, lore or fluff dictates it is a possibility.

Because sometimes.

Sometimes it just doesn't fit.

51 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You have resorted to insults twice in this debate. I'm not offended, mind you. But it does show a distinct lack of objectivity. I'm gonna' break things down then.

>In the last few years, after yavin, they began using more advanced stuff. That doesn't make the TIE Phantom any less imperial.

Curiously I said nothing about them not using advanced things, did I? The TIE Phantom, Defender, Aggressor, even the Interceptor, all count as advanced craft. You could and should even include the TIE Advanced. Why put words in my mouth if not to try and create an argument that doesn't exist?

>your argument, basically, which ignores the fact that they HAVE used the ARC. You conveniently phrase your points around this. Since they switched to TIE-s, they used nothing but TIE-s... Well really? Is that how it works? Were they not called the Empire then? Oh they were.

Duh? They were using it during a transition period. I'm unsure if you're perfectly aware of how ships work but... It's not like Transformers. They've got to use what they have until the new gear rolls in. Which it did, and immediately supplanted all old equipment when it did. I mean by your logic, The Empire should maybe still be using Phase II armor, DC-15A and Cs, AT-TEs, Venators, Acclamators, AT-RTs, and so on, because it once did. Times change. Doctrines change. They change in ways that obsolete and or disallow old technologies. It is as clear cut and dry as that. The Galactic Empire has literally zero use for...

A three seater astromech compatible hyperdrive capable heavily armored and shielded multi-gunned fightercraft with a heavy emphasis on flexibility and durability with a variety of combat profiles, that is notoriously difficult to repair and maintain, and is not based upon the new TIE/LN platform of which many (though not all ) Imperial craft are based upon. It isn't practical for The Galactic Empire.

>And you just claimed that we will not get any content from that era, because you don't think we will... Well, people shared similar ideas about EU ships after the new movies started pouring in. Never say never.

Not what I said either. I said we're unlikely to get "Early Empire" subfactions because it hardly makes any sense. The game is the timeline going forward, never backwards. Yes, old ships appear, but very rarely with their iconic period-appropriate pilots. I saw Shara Bey in the ARC-170 instead of Oddball, and anybody who ever said the EU ships were going to stop coming were just... Wrong. Decades of iconic OT-era content abandoned because they make-believe-mouse-that-everyone-vilifies says so? Hardly. Definitely never.

>I like the ships from them. I wish they included more... I want a Hera X-Wing pilot, etc. I don't like the Phantom Menace, but I would like Leia in an N1. I would also like Vader in an Eta-2. Me not liking rebels, is completely irrelevant. I like the ships.

On this, we are agreed. 100%, even. I simply feel that your bias against such content makes you devalue it and lower the chances of objectivity.

The Imperial ARC-170 just isn't likely to happen. There's no reason for it. The Galactic Empire has three craft with Auxiliary arcs now (two of which that see semi-regular play.) I get it, it'd be neat to have and I won't deny that, but it just fits the Rebel design space more.

I wish I could but I'm notoriously headstrong. I'm fine to agree to disagree, however.

But as long as I am being personally insulted every reply, I don't know how possible that actually is.

To be fair, i don't feel your argument about timeline is very strong. I actually feel that the whole "empire should be able to use them because they once did" ... is actually pretty true. The game is meant as a sandbox of sorts in which you can try out different scenarios that could have possibly happened (or not, if you mix tfa stuff into the mix :/). But basically, the game doesn't really follow the "typical skirmish scenario" which would probably be lots of tie fighters vs lots of xwings/awings 99,9% of the time, but it rather focuses on rather extraordinary fights with aces from different regions of the galaxy teaming up in strange combinations. This should just switch the focus from "relasing the vessels that were most used" to "relase every possible vessel used by every faction even for a one fight". I don't see harm in this approach, it gives players more variety and grey-blue arc in empire with different title, generic pilots, no astromech slot would work. Of course it is the same design space as the tie/sf, but at this point we shouldn't care - design space is so tight that most ships in competitive are basically stronger versions of other vessels. Anyway, making another imperial option representing begginings of the empire would just cater to casual players who love to make some more fun scenarios.