What does the Y-Wing need?

I think I'd be happy with a Title that gives EPT to PS 6 and higher, adds a missile slot, and makes all 1 speed maneuvers green. Sure, I'd like more but I think this would satisfy me.

The ability to have IA and equip one other modification as well would be nice but that's probably pushing it.

Adding a PS6 generic pilot would be nice too.

The Y-wing (Rebel) hurts from the game still developing the first few waves. Yes, the "ace" and generic PS4 could use an EPT. Not sure exactly how to fix. Maybe another title. Other than that, it is what the ship is. It takes some hits, dishes out some damage. Maybe an ability.to help support.

Scum Y-Wings are fine as is. FAAstromech helps, along with the current title.

More pilots.

Here's an expansion idea: do a 3rd paint scheme Y-Wing in a $20 MSRP larger-blister, and include probably four pilot tokens (so up to 4 pilots for each of Rebel and Scum). Rebels should get, say, Trench Run Survivor, a generic Y-Wing with an Elite upgrade, say PS 5. At least a new high-PS pilot (it could be Hera...), and a new low or mid PS one. Maybe something like a PS 3 with a pilot ability, like Tarn Misan or Jess Pava. A point cost between the 2 and 4 generics, but some sort of small ability. I'd only add an Ezra Y-Wing if going with three unique pilots. Scum gets Hondo Ohnaka at least. Possibly toss in, say, Dace Bonearm in a Y-Wing?

I'd also include a new, reasonable turret. Maybe the equivalent of a single-shot TLT (but maybe it could score crits...). Basically, do whatever you can to design a turret which would be good on a Y-Wing, but not a problem on a Ghost, and include that.

Personally, no missile slots. Making it so *everything* can carry Harpoons is a bad idea. Better to just introduce a similarly-broken Torpedo upgrade. To that end, perhaps introduce a new Droid which could assist in gaining target locks for a low-PS ship. Long Range Scanners and Deadeye are both solid tools for helping low-PS ships fire Torpedos/Missiles. A new tool would help both Y-Wings and X-Wings.

I'm also fine with no added Greens, since R2 and Unhinged are both out there (and throw a copy of each into the blister).

It needs less accurate and heavy hitting ordnance in the meta. And less defensive stacking defending against it. The problem isn't the ywing. It's everything else out there. At one agility and no native evade it's a major liability that can be alpha'd in one turn. It doesn't pose a jousting threat like it once did. It could live a couple rounds and dish out several TLT attacks before it went plewy. Not no more.

It needs FAA

Seriously, rebel pilots with EpT woyld be nice.

EPT for sure. Deadeye torps would give them a place in the rebel fleet as a low cost, tough ordnance carrier.

I like the idea of a Rebel title granting an EPT, something like Clone War Veteran. And more pilots, definitely.

Scum Y-wings seem fine, even though I think they could use some more pilots, too.

2 minutes ago, stuffedskullcat said:

I like the idea of a Rebel title granting an EPT, something like Clone War Veteran. And more pilots, definitely.

Scum Y-wings seem fine, even though I think they could use some more pilots, too.

You know, most non-traitorous Veterans of the clone war fought for the other side, until they were decommissioned.

1 minute ago, Commander Kaine said:

You know, most non-traitorous Veterans of the clone war fought for the other side, until they were decommissioned.

You are correct, but most doesn't mean all. I was thinking along the lines the ARC; older pilots who are familiar with old tech and can coax a little more out of it.

Just now, stuffedskullcat said:

You are correct, but most doesn't mean all. I was thinking along the lines the ARC; older pilots who are familiar with old tech and can coax a little more out of it.

I doubt the ARC was piloted by clones. And there were no other veterans of the clone wars.

More pilots, honestly. I know people want an EPT for Horton but I would like to see it done in a way that doesn’t totally invalidate R4-D6.

3 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

I doubt the ARC was piloted by clones. And there were no other veterans of the clone wars.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aggressive_ReConnaissance-170_starfighter

The ARC was flown almost exclusively by clones, and the ARC continued to serve The Empire for years after its inception.

Non-clone humans fought in the Clone Wars too.

1 minute ago, stuffedskullcat said:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aggressive_ReConnaissance-170_starfighter

The ARC was flown almost exclusively by clones, and the ARC continued to serve The Empire for years after its inception.

Non-clone humans fought in the Clone Wars too.

So the empire should get the ARC

4 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

So the empire should get the ARC

They shouldn't.
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The Y-Wing needs a **** EPT.

3 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

They shouldn't.
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The Y-Wing needs a **** EPT.

They should. A price for Sabine's TIE

All the y-wing needs is more pilots, and an ept for the aces.

A repaint would be nice, or a remold of the rebels version.

The x-wing has had 4 expacs, and the poor ywings is the only OT ship without a reprint.

19 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

They should. A price for Sabine's TIE

Sabine's TIE is stolen. But to drive the point home further...

Does The ARC-170 fit the Imperial aesthetic? What does it represent ? It represents The Republic at their height, and the strongest aspects of their Naval Doctrine. This debate has been had ad infinitum but perhaps it's time I throw my hat into the ring fully, on The Rebellion's side- despite my dislike for playing them all that much.

The ARC-170 is the apotheosis of Republic and Alliance design and mindset. Several individuals plus an astromech working together on a single vessel- a single cause, as one. It is durable, it is reasonable agile for its size, it is powerful and it is capable of performing heavy attacks and hit-and-fade operations, thanks to its torpedo bays and hyperdrive. It's also fairly heavily shielded. Though difficult to maintain, the ARC-170 served various organizations and The Republic for fifty years. It was not designed to be disposable, it was designed to be indispensable.

So why did The Empire use it?

The Galactic Empire's doctrine of cost effective single man fighters lacking a hyperdrive, warheads (typically), shielding and potentially even life support systems had not yet come into effect. TIEs were not yet fully produced and it would take time to phase them out. If I need remind, even the Venator and Acclamator warships were phased out in favor of the Imperial Star Destroyer, which was the very spine of The Galactic Empire.

The Empire did not use it because it suited them, because they wanted it, because they needed it, but because they had no other option at the time, and they did not want it. The Rebellion is the opposite. They needed a multi-man, powerful, hit-and-fade strike capable craft. Of course, it's even better that the ARC-170 is a symbol of The Republic, the very thing The Alliance to Restore The Republic was founded to bring back to life.

How poetic, how fitting then would it be, for The Alliance to use symbols of The Republic in their fight against The Empire, the same Empire that supplanted their fair and just, free Republic?

In addendum...

Thematically, The ARC-170 should not ever be on The Empire's side of the battle in XWMG. It does not and never will fit them, and mechanically, the TIE Aggessor and TIE/SF already fill auxiliary-arc roles. Mechanically, The Empire lacks astromechs to take full advantage of, unlike The Rebellion. It makes no sense to give them this vessel.

That is why The ARC-170 should never be part of The Empire's arsenal in XWMG.

Just now, Captain Lackwit said:

Sabine's TIE is stolen. But to drive the point home further...

Does The ARC-170 fit the Imperial aesthetic? What does it represent ? It represents The Republic at their height, and the strongest aspects of their Naval Doctrine. This debate has been had ad infinitum but perhaps it's time I throw my hat into the ring fully, on The Rebellion's side- despite my dislike for playing them all that much.

The ARC-170 is the apotheosis of Republic and Alliance design and mindset. Several individuals plus an astromech working together on a single vessel- a single cause, as one. It is durable, it is reasonable agile for its size, it is powerful and it is capable of performing heavy attacks and hit-and-fade operations, thanks to its torpedo bays and hyperdrive. It's also fairly heavily shielded. Though difficult to maintain, the ARC-170 served various organizations and The Republic for fifty years. It was not designed to be disposable, it was designed to be indispensable.

So why did The Empire use it?

The Galactic Empire's doctrine of cost effective single man fighters lacking a hyperdrive, warheads (typically), shielding and potentially even life support systems had not yet come into effect. TIEs were not yet fully produced and it would take time to phase them out. If I need remind, even the Venator and Acclamator warships were phased out in favor of the Imperial Star Destroyer, which was the very spine of The Galactic Empire.

The Empire did not use it because it suited them, because they wanted it, because they needed it, but because they had no other option at the time, and they did not want it. The Rebellion is the opposite. They needed a multi-man, powerful, hit-and-fade strike capable craft. Of course, it's even better that the ARC-170 is a symbol of The Republic, the very thing The Alliance to Restore The Republic was founded to bring back to life.

How poetic, how fitting then would it be, for The Alliance to use symbols of The Republic in their fight against The Empire, the same Empire that supplanted their fair and just, free Republic?

In addendum...

Thematically, The ARC-170 should not ever be on The Empire's side of the battle in XWMG. It does not and never will fit them, and mechanically, the TIE Aggessor and TIE/SF already fill auxiliary-arc roles. Mechanically, The Empire lacks astromechs to take full advantage of, unlike The Rebellion. It makes no sense to give them this vessel.

That is why The ARC-170 should never be part of The Empire's arsenal in XWMG.

So, several things:

They did use it, so they did want it. Most of your argument fails right there. Now, they replaced it after a while, but X-Wing draws ships from an era lasting 50-ish years, with several ships replacing older versions.

The TAP is (lore wise) a ship that is later replaced by the Advanced. The FO is a replacement for the LN. Since we use several post endor ships (K-Wing, not to mention the TFA+TLJ ships), changes in doctrine are acceptable. The Empire in its infancy, still using Clone Wars tech, is not the same as the Empire pre-yavin, pre-endor, post-endor, or even the First Order, while in this game they are represented by the same faction.

While you are right, the Empire in the OT would probably not want ARC-s (but then again, they started developing their own heavy fighters after Yavin, so there is that), there is nothing in this game that prevents it from fielding ships early from the Empire's history. Or you know, E-Wings and K-Wings shouldn't exist, because the rebels were random insurgencies, not having the financial capacity to develop advanced star fighters. Your argument holds no water...

I for example, would really like an "early empire" roster of ships, ARC-s, V-Wings, Eta-Actis... etc. This is definitely open designspace.

Your argument about mechanics, is similarly easily discarded.

First of all, we have examples of the same ships in different factions having different upgrade bars. The Y-Wing has changed droids, the Z-95 and the Slave I has illicit slots... Also, Imperials removed the droids from their ARC-s, so it would be incredibly easy to just solve this issue. Just slap a system slot on it, differentiating from the rebel Arc immediately. So there is really no issue of astromechs at all.

Second, you claim that because the role of a front-rear arc ship is already taken in the Empire, they shouldn't get another one.

Well, I disagree. A, of the three factions, the Empire is the most arc locked, anything that helps them in that regard is welcome. B, There are already ships in the game that fill similar roles, in the same faction. Rebels already have a superbomber in the form of Miranda, they didn't need to get Nym as their unique pilot. "But Nym had rebel ties" I hear you say... Well, the Empire used the ARC in its early days. It is the same justification. Furthermore, I think the ships can made different enough, especially with the Title mechanic, which should be different from the rebel ARC.

Your point about poetry and theme and what not.

I think that theme should not ever be brought up in any design question. Mainly because its subjective, and people have different opinions. I think the early empire aesthetic is cool. Some disagree. The other thing, is that the game is fundamentally not thematic. Not since the early waves. You can have Poe and Ezra in the same team, shooting at Biggs, and very soon, possibly a Young Han Solo. That's not thematic.

I would yet again, bring up Sabine's TIE. While I understand that probably many thousands of TIEs were stolen, by rebels and pirates alike, theme wise, it just does not fit the rebellion to field them. But that is my opinion, and very very clearly, not the game we are playing, since you know... rebel TIE-s.

Here are my thoughts on this: Either we have multi-faction ships, or we don't. If we do, then all three factions should get them. I'm not gonna talk about how if we don't have them, because we already do, and surprise surprise, the Empire is getting screwed in this one as well.

Since we already crossed that line, let them be.

I honestly don't see the problem here. The Y-Wing is fine as it is. The stresshog is still a powerhouse and can shut down a lot of lists. Often he works as a Biggs and gets shot first and I'm fine with that. I played the Stresshog in all 4 tournaments this year that I attended: I've won a local tournament with it, lost the final in another, made Top 8 in a Regional and Top 4 in a 380 person System Open. So please tell me: where's the problem with the Y-Wing?

Why did I not take Ezra? Because the Y-Wing stresses more reliably and can actually dish out some damage.

That being said, yes, the Y-Wing could use an EPT. But I don't see any fix coming anytime soon, because there are plenty ships out there that need more help.

The Y-wing is awesome, the only problem with it is we don’t have any Imp Y’s.

(runs and hides)

EPTs. John Tyree, Pops Krail. A reason to make Ion torpedoes competitive.

A Rebels TV show pack with the B-Wing, A-Wing and Y-Wing, and then Hera and Sabine flying everything. So OP hahaha.

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

So, several things:

They did use it, so they did want it. Most of your argument fails right there. Now, they replaced it after a while, but X-Wing draws ships from an era lasting 50-ish years, with several ships replacing older versions.

The TAP is (lore wise) a ship that is later replaced by the Advanced. The FO is a replacement for the LN. Since we use several post endor ships (K-Wing, not to mention the TFA+TLJ ships), changes in doctrine are acceptable. The Empire in its infancy, still using Clone Wars tech, is not the same as the Empire pre-yavin, pre-endor, post-endor, or even the First Order, while in this game they are represented by the same faction.

While you are right, the Empire in the OT would probably not want ARC-s (but then again, they started developing their own heavy fighters after Yavin, so there is that), there is nothing in this game that prevents it from fielding ships early from the Empire's history. Or you know, E-Wings and K-Wings shouldn't exist, because the rebels were random insurgencies, not having the financial capacity to develop advanced star fighters. Your argument holds no water...

I for example, would really like an "early empire" roster of ships, ARC-s, V-Wings, Eta-Actis... etc. This is definitely open designspace.

Your argument about mechanics, is similarly easily discarded.

First of all, we have examples of the same ships in different factions having different upgrade bars. The Y-Wing has changed droids, the Z-95 and the Slave I has illicit slots... Also, Imperials removed the droids from their ARC-s, so it would be incredibly easy to just solve this issue. Just slap a system slot on it, differentiating from the rebel Arc immediately. So there is really no issue of astromechs at all.

Second, you claim that because the role of a front-rear arc ship is already taken in the Empire, they shouldn't get another one.

Well, I disagree. A, of the three factions, the Empire is the most arc locked, anything that helps them in that regard is welcome. B, There are already ships in the game that fill similar roles, in the same faction. Rebels already have a superbomber in the form of Miranda, they didn't need to get Nym as their unique pilot. "But Nym had rebel ties" I hear you say... Well, the Empire used the ARC in its early days. It is the same justification. Furthermore, I think the ships can made different enough, especially with the Title mechanic, which should be different from the rebel ARC.

Your point about poetry and theme and what not.

I think that theme should not ever be brought up in any design question. Mainly because its subjective, and people have different opinions. I think the early empire aesthetic is cool. Some disagree. The other thing, is that the game is fundamentally not thematic. Not since the early waves. You can have Poe and Ezra in the same team, shooting at Biggs, and very soon, possibly a Young Han Solo. That's not thematic.

I would yet again, bring up Sabine's TIE. While I understand that probably many thousands of TIEs were stolen, by rebels and pirates alike, theme wise, it just does not fit the rebellion to field them. But that is my opinion, and very very clearly, not the game we are playing, since you know... rebel TIE-s.

Here are my thoughts on this: Either we have multi-faction ships, or we don't. If we do, then all three factions should get them. I'm not gonna talk about how if we don't have them, because we already do, and surprise surprise, the Empire is getting screwed in this one as well.

Since we already crossed that line, let them be.

Honestly? Seems like a lot of hoop jumping to justify it, but to make a final statement to the argument...

Tell me which faction got the ARC. Then tell me which principles FFG agrees with- yours or mine.

A new, higher detail model packed in with updated pilot cards with EPTs, some new rebel pilots and a couple new scum pilots. Maybe toss in a new turret that acts like a mobile arc or something.

Just now, Captain Lackwit said:

Honestly? Seems like a lot of hoop jumping to justify it, but to make a final statement to the argument...

Tell me which faction got the ARC. Then tell me which principles FFG agrees with- yours or mine.

My aptly named friend, you are so bad at this.

You wanna talk about a "lot of hoop"? What was your previous comment then, minor things you've noticed? No, you came and wrote half a page full of questionable rhetoric, ignoring several aspects of the argument, providing an unfair representation of the issue. Then I explained to you why those things don't hold up.

As if saying "final statement" is a way to save face. No, my friend, you need to own up to your BS. If you ignore certain aspects, and get called out for it, the appropriate reaction is not to cowardly hide behind an "authority".

FFG doesn't matter. For several reasons. A, it's not like they are perfect... They can make mistakes, and in my opinion, have, especially regarding this. B, FFG didn't come here and claim that the Empire will never get the ARC, or that they shouldn't. You did. That was your opinion. It is not FFG's job to defend your views. That is yours.

So, I ask again... Why do YOU think the imperials shouldn't get the ARC, when also viewing the following facts: Mechanic overlap already exists, The game handles a timespan when said ship was under the control of said faction, prominently, multi-faction ships already exist, with different abilities no less, and the game already breaks thematic elements left and right.

(And before you come at me for going for the easy pickings of your name... I wouldn't have done so, if you gave reasonable arguments that don't have to ignore half of the existing game just to hold up. And if you are irritated by people calling you out on your less than stellar argumentative techniques, be better.)