Our group is verging on ranks 7-8 and some of the players are beginning to find that the Techpriest in the group is somewhat overbearing the game due to being able to do most things as well as or better than the other characters you would expect to see excelling in these areas.

I should point out that the Techpriest has gone through a cybernetic ressurection, has helot mining augmetics, a laser-eye (a la Commisar Yarrick), power armour, an omnissian axe, most if not all of the mechadendrites and the AdMech power field thingy (cant remember what its called).

Net result is that her STR and TOU are in the mid 80's, coupled with armour and powerfield she is almost invulnerable in any fights, her normally low WS is boosted by best craftsmanship melee weaponry and the talent that allows bonuses for giving up reactions. Her melee attacks are something like 6 or 7 per round (lighning attack, breacher, laser eye, hellpistol ballistic mechadendrite and chain knife from medicae mechadendrite).

Plus she is the only one who can manipulate Technology well, is the only one who has substantial access to Lore skills (we have no adept and the Psyker dropped out a few weeks ago). About the only thing she cant do is social skills and stealth.

This all came to a rather stark reality in our last session when demonic influence caused her to attack the rest of the group. In 4 rounds of fighting she went through a rank 8 Sororitas (power armour and power fist), rank 7 Assassin (powerswords and all the defensive talents), rank 7 guardsman (power sword, power armour and all the melee talents) and rank 7 Scum (who is a social monster and not really up to much melee combat). 4 Fate points burned and we did her about 6-7 wounds between us (which she regenerated with prosanguine in minutes).

This has lead to a very bad atmosphere in our group and i fear the game will come to a close iteslf soon as one player seems to eclipse all the others to the point its pointless for them to be there for the most part.

Has anyone else found this with high level techpriests? I fear the GM has been too forgiving with the equipment he has let us all have but the AdMech items are too powerfull (i think).

Anyway, rant over - Thoughts / Opinions anyone?

S.K

Yes I would say that the tech priest has a lot of powerful gear. Does the rest of your party have comparable equipment?
The other problem I see is that the tech priest shouldn’t be able to attack with all of her mechadendrites in a single round. If I understand the rules correctly, a character can attack with two different weapons per round. Even if she can attack with that many weapons, she should be facing pretty stiff penalties to her WS.

Yeah the one problem I see is how is she get all those attacks in one round... I am sure the mechadendrites(?) need a reaction to use so she would only be able to use one and not attack with the rest.

I could be wrong but i thought the breacher was NOT a free attack. At best it's an offhand weapon and I doubt that TP has the agility required for two weapon weilder.

Being a Tech-Priest myself I can safely say that she has far too many attacks. The absolute most attacks anyone can make in a single round is 5 + Reaction Attack if allowed. With Lightning Attack and Two-Wep Fighting (and not using a 2hand wep) you can get 3 main hand, 1 off hand (or for a Tech-Priest a GUN dendrite as they are the only ones allowed to function as your off hand), and a mounted MIU weapon that gets 1 free attack per round. Then specifically for Tech-Priests we are allowed a REACTION attack with a dendrite that HASN'T attacked yet.

And as stated, the breacher for the Mining arm is not a free attack either.

It dose seem, though, that your GM has let her get a LOT of very rare and incredibly expensive gear which, when combined, becomes incredibly potent (thus it's cost and rarity) such as the eye (which is near unique) and the Amulet of Warding (which is very rare and mind-bogglingly expensive). It's not just ad-mech gear, though, as the eye can be implanted in just about anyone, and there's more then one version of those refractor fields (one exclusive to the Ecclearchy and one common amungst the gaurd) but the ad-mech version is the most powerful and versatile. If the rest of you had a refractor field of some kind as well, you might be more on par with her combat-wise. It's not so much her career that makes her crazy powerful, it's the crazy rare and expensive gear (Power Field, and Eye) which potentially gives her an extra attack and incredible damage mitigation.

As attacks go, I can see her having up to 6. She gets 3 attacks with just Lightning Attack and possibly 4 if she's duel wielding the weapons. The breacher or mining helot augmentics doesn't give any extra attacks by he RAW but the laser eye (if going by the Baleful Eye found in Rogue Trader) could give an additional fee-action attack (if it's considered an MIU Weapon Interface) which would boost her to 5 attacks max. She'd only be able to add an attack from one of her mechadindrites per round and then she'd have to give up her reaction to do so (which, would then have to be done techecaly during someone else's turn), but that would put her at a max of 6 attacks -three from Lighting Attack, 1 potentially free action attack, 1 for duel wielding, and 1 for using her reaction.

Her max attacks isn't all that bad in comparisons to you guys. If the guard has all the melee talents, then he should be able to get up to 5 attacks in close combat per round (Lighting Attack + Duel Wield + Counter Attack). If he's not duel wielding, then I reckon he's not munchkined out quite like the TP is. In the end, it's her retractor field that has the odds strongly tipped in her favor above everyone else, not her career choice as that can be rivaled.

Answer to the OP's question: Yes, they are.

But since when need roleplaying games to be balanced ? That's what you have a good GM for, normaly.

Answer to the OP's question: Yes, they are.

Mind explaining that in a little more detail, considering the main factors in the combat at hand were misunderstood rules about attacks per round and a rather hefty item?

@Topic

I agree with Graver (but when do I not?). The deciding factors, as mentioned above, were the refractor field and the additional attacks.

What does everyone else in the party have? If a Tech Priest had that in my game and another player asked for comparable gear I woudn't say no to a Heavy Bolter with suspensors, motion tracker, best quality power armor, and refractor field. However, I'd probably make there be serious consequences to having all that stuff. What was your GM thinking giving a player access to all that stuff when (presumably) the others have nothing?

Once the rules get squared away, this player isn't as overpowered, but with all that stuff your enemies strategies would revolve around that player. Cyber Rez Secutor? She can't disguise as anything and will stick out like a sore thumb anywhere. Most of the cultists you'd be after would clear out of town the instant one saw that... thing.

Well, the Tech Priest has a ton of gear, is a monster in combat, is good with tech and knows a lot. In my campaign, the Tech Priests player might be complaining of being bored because they can't do very much.

In my campaign, someone might be posting "Are Scum overpowered?" because the Scum character is the one who get to do the most in any given session... because my campaign involves a lot of social interaction and investigation, and very little combat or tech use. Lores would be the only thing this Tech Priest had going for her in my game.

The question, IMO, is not: are tech priests overpowered. The real question is: given the style of play in your campaign, does this tech priests abilities and equipment allow this character to take more than their fair share of the spotlight. Since the answer seems to be yes, I think you should talk to your GM (if a player) or your players (if the GM) that the view that this one character seems to dominating the game, which is negatively effecting your enjoyment of the game. See if the group can agree on changes to the style of play that could correct that.

It seems to me that a lot of the TPs advantages are things that anyone can get. The mech rez, the laser eye, helot.... Pretty much everything other than the balistic dendrite. Other careers has access to a lot of combat related talent that TPs don't.

Wow thanks for the replies everyone..

I spoke to the GM a bit ago and whilst he took some of my concerns on board, it seems the age old problem of "the techpriest's player is my girlfriend so im not gonna take it off her" is about to rear its ugly head...

But to clarify some of the things people have said

1) The GM is under the impression that the specialist equpment in the Inquisitors Handbook is to be limited to the appropriate class (so only techpriests can get the items in the forge world section, etc)

2) the Laser eye is a balefull eye, scaffed from RT (free action to shoot)

3) The Techpriest has Step Aside (AG 40+ before the cyber res, so can still use the talent even thou ag is now 20 or so), meaning she spends one reaction to power the hit-modifier talent, and one reaction to attack with ALL the mechadendrites (not one per reaction as i thought). The Breacher counts as a 'dendrite in this case.

4) The GM isnt applying any 2 weapon penalties because all the other attacks aside from the Omnissian Axe (which is 2 handed and uses the lightning attack talent) are "bonus" attacks in the same sense as the Baleful eye.

5) The Scum and the Sororitas have refractor fields which dont work against HtH attacks.

6) The GM is allowing the player to stack one the +20 STR from the lifting mechadendrite straight onto her strength and not simply applying it to appropriate situations. Her core STR is 49 (+10 for power armour, +20 from mechadendrite)

S.K.

1) The GM is under the impression that the specialist equpment in the Inquisitors Handbook is to be limited to the appropriate class (so only techpriests can get the items in the forge world section, etc)

Er... why?

3) The Techpriest has Step Aside (AG 40+ before the cyber res, so can still use the talent even thou ag is now 20 or so), meaning she spends one reaction to power the hit-modifier talent, and one reaction to attack with ALL the mechadendrites (not one per reaction as i thought). The Breacher counts as a 'dendrite in this case.

Firstly, the reaction granted by Step Aside can be used only to dodge, not to do anything else needing a reaction. Secondly, I doubt she'd be able to continue using something she doesn't qualify for anymore. After all, you don't need to be agile to learn how to dodge better, but you need to be agile to execute that better dodging, don't you? And finally, it's one reaction per extra weapon.

6) The GM is allowing the player to stack one the +20 STR from the lifting mechadendrite straight onto her strength and not simply applying it to appropriate situations. Her core STR is 49 (+10 for power armour, +20 from mechadendrite)

So? Next time, bring a heavy lifting crane into combat and have it stand next to you. Surely its presence will elevate your close-combat strength to new heights!

There are so many things wrong with all of that... I don't know where to begin...

Truth be told, at this point, I wouldn't bother with the Tech-priest at all. Seeing as is this obvious Favouritism.

1) I Guess could make sense - at character creation-

2) Rogue trader is horribly unbalanced compared to Dark Heresy to begin with

3) The Rulebook specifies that you lose the ability to use talents that you don't have the qualifications for. She cannot step aside. What you thought what right, she picks ONE of the mechans and attacks with that. I can see stretching the breacher as a Mechan, but anymore then that.... and either way, step aside can only be used to dodge.

4) Is the only thing that would be right if it wasn't crazy: the tech-priest doesn't get any negative modifier when she decides to use a single mechandrite. it counts as her off hand, but without any of the penalties. (I think)

5) - I'd need to check the rule book.

6) And no. Unless She's like... holding the axe with her Mechandrite...

Bottom line, the way I see it, you have two choices: 1) make a Tech-priest. Because yes, they are overpowered If they turn into Doctor Octopus and can attack with all of their mechans in a single turn. or 2) Pretend the character is a Dm-pc. Because she might as well be.

You could also request more investigative campaigns, perhaps that would give you guys more of a chance to shine and put less emphasis on fighting?

In all honesty, there's a limit to how much you can enjoy the game when a single player pretty much becomes a demi-god. What have the other players said about this? Because if this keeps up, Odds are that Dm is going to be Dming a single player game...

No, Tech-Priest as a class is only as overpowered as the GM ( and players ) allow. This applies equally to any and all classes.

In this particular case it seems that the unbalance is mainly caused by misunderstandings about the rules. A proper discussion between the players and GM should be able to rectify the situation.

Solomon Kane said:

Darn, I was really hoping you weren't going to say that but somehow I knew you would.

Sorry, your GM is breaking the rules. Specifically, the first and fourth rules found in the sidebar on page 219.

Darn, I was really hoping you weren't going to say that but somehow I knew you would.

Same here. Better look out for the Black Ships...

Solomon Kane said:

Given that it's his girlfriend I think either you need to accept that his isn't good gm in the area of fairness or quit the game. I've GMed with my girlfriend, and had GMs with girlfriends in the game. A good GM goes out of his way to not favor a girlfriend/wife/friends. If a GM feels he has to bend over backwards to keep his girl friend happy then he's got something majorly wrong with his relationship. If you've brought up these issues before then it's unlikely he is going to change his ways. The other question to consider is if she is making good use of the stuff she is given. I've often amused myself as a GM by massively boosting a PC who seems to be creating an character who is incompetent by design, and watch as the player seems to go out of his way to avoid using his advantages.

The question to ask yourself is are you having fun, and does the game work. If yes are then just let the overpowered tech priest go. A gaming group shouldn't be a game of one up each other. Use the tech priest for cover.

Tech priests are mostly monsters due to raw durability and toughness. They get access to some specialist gear (Mechadendrites and certain other "Techpriest only" implants) but do not otherwise have some mystical overwhelming advantage over the other combat-heavy careers. Do your rank 8 Guardsman and Sororitas really lack the ability to hit like a pissed off Dreadnought if they pull out the stops and decide to expend some "special" ordinance?

My game has a Techpriest and he is admitedly the "big tough pile of metal" that is hard to damage with normal weapons. With the huge piles of gear and implants your team is sporting, I am assuming you mostly use the "Kick down the doors and go guns blazing" style. In that case sooner or later the baddies are going to bring out specialist equipment to deal with you guys. If the "big bad" is still guarded by guys in gang leathers and sporting autoguns then something has gone horribly wrong! As soon as a heavy bolter and a few meltaguns come out it is time to duck behind something HARD and THICK immediately or your Techpriest gets to do their best charades impression of microwaving some silverware.

When my team gears up for some blatant warfare the pain is NOT limited to the Techpriest! Sure, he makes big horrible wounds with his Omnissian axe if he gets up close, and he packs a hand flamer.... BUT! The Assassin and Guardsman are both absolute killing machines at range. The Psyker does "bad things to bad people". Even the Adept is getting surprisingly skilled at sword-play. Scum are "glass-cannons" and usually do BIG shooting damage as long as they can avoid taking a big hit. Sisters are Sisters...

The issue here is your GM is bending the rules over and inviting his prison buddies over to "have a go" with them in regards to his girlfriend's character.

Also consider that the only character in my game that will absolutely **** a kidney if I have an NPC toss a Haywire grenade at them is the Techpriest. Oh wait, I DID that last game session! He was awesome and shot the thing down with a plasma-dendrite at point blank range so he only took a backwash from the thing... His cyber-lungs and all of his dendrites went offline. If the player is keeping track of how long before they suffocate while desperately fighting still then chances are they do not feel so "overpowered". The Assassin's Glavian circuitry also went offline... "Oh no, there goes my +10 piloting bonus!"

Techpriests as a whole are tougher than nails, but almost incapable of avoiding incoming harm. They don't even gain access to Dodge skill until rank 8 and they are NOT known for their base Agility....

Techpriests as a whole are tougher than nails, but almost incapable of avoiding incoming harm. They don't even gain access to Dodge skill until rank 8 and they are NOT known for their base Agility....

On the other hand side, they get quite a few upgrades to toughness that don't get canceled out by high PEN weapons.

Cifer said:

Quite a few? They do have cheap toughness advances, but so do Arbitrators. They have Machinator Array for Secutors, but there isn't anything else that is TP specific.

id say your techpriest player has either gotten a firm grasp on the rules and has begun bending them or is just a smart player (possibly both)

numb3rc said:

There's a few others (such as mining healiot augmentation which actually reduces agility). If blagged heavily you can get to about TB 8.

Of course against my team's guardsman with his powerfist that would be 2d10 + 2 damage (assuming the pen took out the armour) per hit, or a melta gun which is 2d10 - 2 damage let alone actual heavy weapons. Not a position you want to face with no dodge skill and a <30 agility.

SmeedandSmoot said:

SmeedandSmoot said:

No.

We've already gone over how no character can have as many attacks that this Tech Priest can without breaking the rules. Also, she has a sympathetic GM who specifically ignores deliberate misinterpretation of the rules. On top of that, she has top-notch gear, gear that seems to be far and above what the other players have. In addition, the GM seems to believe that some of this gear is Tech Priest only, which is patently false.

I really don't see that argument as defensible.

Also, anyone can get Mining Helot augmentation, Cyber rez, and a lot of stuff.

Also, anyone can get Mining Helot augmentation, Cyber rez, and a lot of stuff.

Um... partially. Quite a few of those either come more naturally to the Tech-priest (he's likely got the contacts to do the surgery) or have fewer drawbacks for it (if you've got a 19 agility, where's the harm in going down a few more points? It's not like you'd have much of a reliable chance to do anything acrobatic anyway).

Also, there's the matter of subterfuge: A guardsman tossing away his lasgun and flak armour is just another bystander. A techpriest can't ever try to blend in as anything other than a techpriest anyway, except perhaps as a (very well-kept) servitor. Now add helot augmetic to that: The guardsman has a large third arm appendage with a massive drill on it. Looks strange and definitely not exactly forgettable. The tech-priest, on the other hand side, doesn't really become stranger - it's just one of a half-dozen weird implants jutting out from him at all angles. Same for the Cyber-Ressurection: A techpriest stays a techpriest, only more so, while a guardsman upgrades his obtrusiveness effortlessly to tech-priest level when taking it.