What skill would be used for navigating a path thru a jungle, or navigating the ocean?

Survival? Knowledge?

Seems like Astrogation, but that's only for spaceships right?

Generally I would say Survival, but if a player can make a decent pitch for others, then you ought to allow it. Skills in this system have an intentional overlap.

I’ll throw in a vote for Survival.

Another thing to remember:

Wookiees and Sullustans both have very good senses of direction. Give them a couple of boosts.

Define "navigating". Planning a trip and looking at maps of an area before arriving? Probably Knowledge of some type. Ejected out of a crashing ship and finding yourself in that location without pre-planning, maps or resources, Survival.

If Survival isn't the skill you would immediately jump to, I would have to ask the question: What DO you use Survival for in this game?

2 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

If Survival isn't the skill you would immediately jump to, I would have to ask the question: What DO you use Survival for in this game?

Survival. It just seems weird to me that we would have 2 skills for different types of navigation (Astrogation & Survival), but I completely understand, I just have to tilt my head sideways now and then until my thinking readjusts.

The "Astro" part of "Astrogation" kind of implies, y'know, outer space. It entirely stands to reason the training needed to trek across a jungle is a little different for the knowledge needed to direct a ship across the galaxy via a hyperdrive.

Survival, Knoweldge: Education (possibly with some setbacks or upgraded difficulty, but there's nothing saying someone who has studied intensively about wilderness survival wouldn't be able to apply that knowledge, just look at some of the people on Survivor who are smart and use those smarts to thrive).

Knowledge: Lore could maybe help with specific planets that might have a storied history. "Did you say this was Dagobah?! Oh man, I've heard this planet has giant things that can EAT DROIDS if you go in the water! We'd better stick to dry land as much as possible."

Resilience could help with checks to simply survive a harsh environment (and is in fact, the exact time to make those checks).

So it's really up to the GM. I'm split between simply having them roll the other skills and using those as checks to try and navigate, or using those rolls to provide boosts to any Survival checks they make to actually navigate. See the above example of someone who is really smart and learned about wilderness stuff, using that knowledge to help them survival (translate to rolling Education for a chance to add boosts, or upgrade the Survival check they are required to make)

But, to make sure things don't become unbalanced, it would probably be reasonable to have setbacks applied to trying to make Survival checks, without actually using Survival. As it is the ideal skill for this situation. Doesn't mean it's impossible to do it with other skill sets, but it's likely not as easy as simply knowing how to Survive.

3 hours ago, Darth Poopdeck said:

What skill would be used for navigating a path thru a jungle,

I'd mix it up a bit, throwing in challenges that draw on other skills. Getting from A to B in good time, with full bellies and hydration: Survival. Keeping the group together, making camp, taking watch, not wandering off alone or getting distracted: Leadership. Avoiding dangerous flora and fauna or unstable terrain: Survival, Knowledge:Education, Medicine, Xenology. Identifying weird or legendary objects, beings, or phenomena: Knowledge:Lore, or Knowledge:(region)

3 hours ago, Darth Poopdeck said:

or navigating the ocean?

Knowledge:Education, but I think I'd also allow Astrogation if the PCs had access to some tech, or even a magnet to point to a pole (assuming the planet even has a magnetosphere).

I can see a huge difference between Astrogation and Survival. To me, Astrogation is like the Apollo 13 crew using advanced math to navigate without a guidance system (something I can’t do) vs. using a map and compass to navigate back country without roads or trails for 10km straight at night (something I can do).

I ran a military-themed AoR campaign which involved infiltrating remote worlds to link up with local resistance groups. We used Survival to navigate through the jungles of Drongar for pre-mission training.

Set the base time for travel assuming 2-4 km/hour in wooded terrain and difficulty based on general terrain (triple canopy is harded than rolling hills).

Add set backs for lack of proper equipment, weather factors, or visibility at night.

Add boost for trail markings, good maps, area familiarity, etc.

Successes can reduce travel time up to a certain amount (maybe each additional reduces by 10% down to 50%).

Advantages and triumphs result in benefits like arriving at an opportune spot, finding additional gear lost by other people, avoiding a planned encounter, etc.

Threats and despairs result in strain, lost equipment, random encounters, additional travel time, etc.

The mechanics may similar to Astrogation, but there is a reason why Survival is a career skill for Soldiers in AoR.

I’ve attached a link for a WIP module that I ran for the start of the campaign. It has a lot of the info that I talk about above. I had great ambitions to make it in a published format for no reason other than self satisfaction. It isn’t a finished product, but it’s there for inspiration.

None of the art is licensed and is only for personal use.

Drop Camp Adventure

while I don't have it on hand to cite specifically, I know that the EotE Core Rulebook states that Astrogation is for programming a Navicomputer for Hyperspace jumps. It also plays into knowledge of what systems are nearby, available ports or resources in the sector, etc. After all, "Traveling through space ain't like dusting crops, farm boy!" On the other hand, Survival is specifically for finding necessities (food, water, shelter) and navigating in difficult terrain or hostile environments. While having an Education might help a tiny bit, there's a huge difference between reading about Dagobah and actually traversing those swamps. There are other skills you could use to assist with the journey, but the overall navigation solely relies on Survival. In fact, the Survivalist BH spec has specific talents to assist with navigating unknown/difficult terrain.

As far as the ocean goes, there isn't a specific skill for maritime navigation but I would venture that knowing how to survive and make your way in one place is more applicable than any other skill. After all, I've personally trained IRL for both mountain & jungle survival, and found they share many of the same abilities/knowledge appropriate for a variety of climates and terrains.

If its ploting a course before hand versus keeping to the trail while in the jungle I'd go survival but with the intelligence rather then cunning characteristic

This is probably another example of needing to ignore literal definitions of words and probably sticking with the book.

I do still think it's ok to switch things up. I've intentionally started using other skills more and minimizing Perception just because it's so overused.

According to the implied intent in the Navigator's Planetary Mapper talents, Survival is used for navigating non-urban planetary environments and Streetwise is used for navigating urban planetary environments. Astrogation is used for navigating in space.