So yes - there isn't really a decent ruling on how to use them in RtL or if to use them at all. I read the FAQ and it suggests to use them as normal if I recall.

But - it seems to me it is a bit overpowered? And no ideas for scaling?

I am starting a campaign this Sunday - for the first time - I have all the expansions (and will have the dungeons from SoB) but I feel the feats are possibly overpowered. Any thoughts? I want to have this all worked out by Sunday - so if a house rule is necessary - I can start it right away with the house rules.

Any thing you guys have been using as you run games?

One idea I had was to limit the number of feats they can have in their hands to the number of skills they presently have. That way - early on - when they havn't trained they would only have the 1 skill and the number of feats they can have in their hands increase as they train more skills. (And the feat would have to match the type of skill they possess.) Thoughts?

Also - if there is another thread (that is more recent than a year) that beats this discussion to death already - please advise and I'll look there - THANKS!

SoylentGreen said:

Feats seem to me to be a reasonable replacement for the loss of Telekinesis and Bear Tattoo (grapple). Losing those two skills is a massive, massive blow to the heroes, far greater than the relatively minor changes for the OL (most of which don't even apply until you have a fair bit of treachery).

I've played a full campaign (Silver start) with them and it seemed to go ok. At the start of the campaign it was before the 2009 FAQ and I had Bear Tattoo and was exploring alternate ways to introduce Feats (OL drawing cards when feats were played or drawn) but whne he FAQ came out we abandoned those houserule tests and just went with the RAW. It seems to work fine IMO.

If you weren't an abuser of Telekinesis and/or Bear Tattoo before then you might not think it is a big deal. Sorry, but in that case you just weren't playing well! Removing Telekinesis is the biggest tactical change since 1 potion per turn (and one I approve of heartily I might add). With +2F upgrades what you could do with Telekinesis was just so, so wrong. Its bad enough with no upgrades!

If you do make a change, your idea is flawed. You want the heros to have more feats early (copper) and less late (gold), since the struggle generally in copper and cruise ridiculously in gold.
I was exploring having the OL draw a card whenever a Feat was played - which just meant only the good feats got played.
I also explored having the OL draw a card whenever a feat was drawn (heroes got the option to draw or not draw each glyph). That worked ok, except the heroes were often too scared to draw feats at all! Too many feats weren't worth that payoff in tight dungeons, especially when the OL has treachery mixed into his deck.

SoylentGreen said:

We've been using feats RAW in Sea of Blood and they work fine. You have to remember that at copper level in the campaign, the heroes are at a SERIOUS disadvantage. Feats help even the odds a bit. Plus they are a hell of alot of fun.

My advice: Just play them as they are written, and it'll work.

Fizz said:

+1. My group just started a new RtL game and we're playing it RAW. The OL hates it when we whip out the feats but we still have fun. Even with the feats, he's still winning by a little (will be interesting to see how the game progresses, as we have two 8 wound heroes in the group).

Thanks for the good replies.

We may discuss a house rule - just to ease it in - something like # of feats to match # of skills up to regulation hand size. But we may also play RaW. (even though RtL has a means to slowly develop in to the use of skills.)

Can I assume however - that once you get to the Overlord battle at the very end - all feats would be set aside at that point? Seems to me if the ovelord has to chuck his deck - shouldn't the heroes have to do the same?

SoylentGreen said:

Don't have it near, but I'm like 99% sure that's in the FAQ

That's how it's ruled in SoB, and I do believe they added it in the FAQ for RtL.

-shnar

Here we go, for the full answer

Q: How do Feat cards from TOI interact with the advanced campaign?

A: Start with the normal mix, and draw 1 per hero per glyph activated. Feats stay around between dungeons/encounters. They are present for the Lt. encounters, but are discarded at the start of the final battle with the Avatar.

It was originally ruled for RtL,but anything that says "advanced campaign" now covers SoB. I do find it interesting that in SoB, Heroes get Feat cards in Lt encounters but the OL doesn't.

Hardly seems fair, but given the reports I've heard of the SoB Lt fights being hard it probably works out.

Yeah, the SoB Lieutenants are less numerous, but far more difficult (for the heroes) to encounter.

Bit tangential this, but in reference to a few posts back, would someone mind explaining what is so powerful about Bear Tattoo? I haven't played RtL, and I can certainly see that Telekinesis is borderline-broken (it's extremely powerful in the base game, quite frankly), but I can't see what's so abusable (or even good) about having Grapple.

Grapple made killing Lieutenants without "Unstoppable" pathetically easy. The guy with the bear tattoo holds him down, while the other 3 heroes kick him in the balls until he dies.

Yeah, grapple for LT's was WAY too easy....especially the soaring ones before they released an FAQ about it.

I am glad to see it gone, as well as TK.

Much more fun now