Reread WAB and it doesn't mention the alignment of the ship or squadron to receive the WAB crit effect damage. Does that mean I must apply the damage to my own ship/squad if there is no other enemy unit at close range?(probably not as upgrade crit effects are optional right?)

Next part, can I then choose to damage my own ship/squad(whether the one using WAB or otherwise) on purpose using the WAB crit effect?(for reasons)(i.e. blow up my own gozanti that would otherwise obstruct a shot from my ISD)(turn Bossk into Hulk)

17 minutes ago, Muelmuel said:

Reread WAB and it doesn't mention the alignment of the ship or squadron to receive the WAB crit effect damage. Does that mean I must apply the damage to my own ship/squad if there is no other enemy unit at close range?(probably not as upgrade crit effects are optional right?)

Next part, can I then choose to damage my own ship/squad(whether the one using WAB or otherwise) on purpose using the WAB crit effect?(for reasons)(i.e. blow up my own gozanti that would otherwise obstruct a shot from my ISD)(turn Bossk into Hulk)

1. No. As you said, it is optional.

2. Yes. As written it is allowed

Bossk!

.

is there a ruling about attacking/damaging your own ships like that?

The Rules reference only ever mentions attacking and defending - it never mentions who controls the ship

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Tie Adv ace that specifies damaging your own sq's.

18 minutes ago, eViL dAvE said:

is there a ruling about attacking/damaging your own ships like that?

"Ships and squadrons cannot attack friendly ships and squadrons."

WAB isn't an attack, so it skirts that rule.

43 minutes ago, svelok said:

"Ships and squadrons cannot attack friendly ships and squadrons."

out of interest, where is this written?

42 minutes ago, svelok said:

WAB isn't an attack, so it skirts that rule.

wasn't the crit rolled as part of an attack though?

9 minutes ago, eViL dAvE said:

out of interest, where is this written?

RRG, page 2.

9 minutes ago, eViL dAvE said:

wasn't the crit rolled as part of an attack though?

Yeah, but that doesn't matter. You're not attacking the target of WAB, you're resolving WAB's effects.

Disingenuous.

If the only outcome of triggering the crit is damaging your own Ship/Squadron, then you are directly trying to (circumnavigate, wrong word) circumvent the rules (Can't attack), there is no reason to damage your own ship/squadron, other than to deny your opponent the opportunity to do so. Which is why you cannot declare your own ships/squadrons as targets.

Circumnavigate, changed to circumvent.

1 hour ago, TheEasternKing said:

Disingenuous.

Huh?

1 hour ago, TheEasternKing said:

you are directly trying to circumnavigate the rules

That's what literally every single upgrade card does.

1 hour ago, TheEasternKing said:

there is no reason to damage your own ship/squadron, other than to deny your opponent the opportunity to do so.

Or to proc Bossk. Not that this point is relevant to a rules question.

1 hour ago, TheEasternKing said:

Which is why you cannot declare your own ships/squadrons as targets.

[citation needed]

Addendum:

Scoring rule doesn't care about who destroyed what so denying that to your opponents matters when? Playing the CC to prevent veterans?

Editing while writing:

Actually it would matters for scoring objectives like superior positions, precision strike and fighter ambush.

Hmm...

Edit 2:

It would be a really corner case and the advantage could be hard to argue but is a potential way to prevent someone to get some points.

44 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Huh?

That's what literally every single upgrade card does.

Or to proc Bossk. Not that this point is relevant to a rules question.

[citation needed]

No upgrade allows you to attack your own ships or squadrons.

There are a few that allow you to shunt damage around, and a few that inflict damage as a cost of triggering the card to gain a benefit, but none that break that core rule. and apart from Task Force Antillies (which requires multiple ships, and your opponent can chose not to attack preventing you from blowing your own ship up) non that allow you to inflict damage to your own ships, in fact it would seem the developers have gone out of there way to prohibit players from blowing there own ships up with their own ships. (Even Dominator specifically says 2 shields and not 2 damage.)

And WAB is a choice, and it only inflicts damage on one ship or one squadron, it is not a blanket everything at range 1 takes x damage, which is why I said what I did, the only reason you would try and damage your own Ship or squadron with WAB is to stop your opponent doing so, which is a direct contravention of the rule that prohibits you from attacking your own ships/squadrons.

Damaging Bossk is one thing, blowing your own ship up to stop your opponent scoring VPS is an entirely different matter.

And yes Ovi, only in limited cases on specific objectives, but you could prevent an opponent racking up 2-3-4-5-6 VP tokens from Superior Positions with this quite easily. Because you are the defender and attacker, you get to pick which hull zone you take the damage on, so you could have full shields on the rear (lets say 2) and 4 hull left but no shields on any other facing meaning your opponent could get 6 VPS hitting your rear arc till your ship dies, or you can trigger WAB and they get none, because you take it all on an unshielded hull zone.

The only thing I am saying here is : currently you can deal damage with WAB to your own Ship/Squadron, but I feel that is an unintentional oversight (else why stop you attacking your own ships/squadrons), which means we wait for the next FAQ, or Twitter! to find out if that is what the game designers want or not.

3 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

No upgrade allows you to attack your own ships or squadrons.

There are a few that allow you to shunt damage around, and a few that inflict damage as a cost of triggering the card to gain a benefit, but none that break that core rule. and apart from Task Force Antillies (which requires multiple ships, and your opponent can chose not to attack preventing you from blowing your own ship up) non that allow you to inflict damage to your own ships, in fact it would seem the developers have gone out of there way to prohibit players from blowing there own ships up with their own ships. (Even Dominator specifically says 2 shields and not 2 damage.)

And WAB is a choice, and it only inflicts damage on one ship or one squadron, it is not a blanket everything at range 1 takes x damage, which is why I said what I did, the only reason you would try and damage your own Ship or squadron with WAB is to stop your opponent doing so, which is a direct contravention of the rule that prohibits you from attacking your own ships/squadrons.

Damaging Bossk is one thing, blowing your own ship up to stop your opponent scoring VPS is an entirely different matter.

And yes Ovi, only in limited cases on specific objectives, but you could prevent an opponent racking up 2-3-4-5-6 VP tokens from Superior Positions with this quite easily. Because you are the defender and attacker, you get to pick which hull zone you take the damage on, so you could have full shields on the rear (lets say 2) and 4 hull left but no shields on any other facing meaning your opponent could get 6 VPS hitting your rear arc till your ship dies, or you can trigger WAB and they get none, because you take it all on an unshielded hull zone.

The only thing I am saying here is : currently you can deal damage with WAB to your own Ship/Squadron, but I feel that is an unintentional oversight (else why stop you attacking your own ships/squadrons), which means we wait for the next FAQ, or Twitter! to find out if that is what the game designers want or not.

::Strawman Inbound! ? ::

Deliberately Flying off the board achieves the same goal. Should we ban that too, or just allow you to attack your own ships?

What’s the desired endgame here?

22 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

::Strawman Inbound! ? ::

Deliberately Flying off the board achieves the same goal. Should we ban that too, or just allow you to attack your own ships?

What’s the desired endgame here?

Well the rules say you can fly of the edge of the play area.

We have had many, many tournaments since this game launched, and I am sure people have flown ships out of the play area to deny VPS, I am also sure players have rammed their own vessels to either A not fly of the edge, or B destroy a ship to prevent VP scoring or C used it as a brake to keep a primary arc on an opponent, and the game designers have not brought any rules in to prevent such actions, so as bad a taste as it may leave, its also A OK with me as that is design intent.

This is my theoretical response to any such presented Strawman arguments!

The rules on the card allow you to WAB your own ship.

it does not state enemy squadron as a restriction, and as per the golden rule a rule on a card overrides the base rules where they contradict.

As “silly” or “counterintuitive” it feels is irrelevant... set your ordnance to explode to proximity, make sure you’re not in proximity! ?

Thus, I apply the same argument you made to WAB smacking your own ship down. ?

I mean, I’ll be honest - the corner case of doing it - in such a way to save a LOT of points, requires an insane amount of both setup and luck. Because most WABs that go off are in the 1-2 point section, and if 1-2 points on one hull zone will kill you you were pretty well dead anyway and not going to give up many mission token points.

o mean, your opponent could be fated to fluff those shots scoring nothing and you have him your ship instead!

34 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

No upgrade allows you to attack your own ships or squadrons.

There are a few that allow you to shunt damage around, and a few that inflict damage as a cost of triggering the card to gain a benefit, but none that break that core rule. and apart from Task Force Antillies (which requires multiple ships, and your opponent can chose not to attack preventing you from blowing your own ship up) non that allow you to inflict damage to your own ships, in fact it would seem the developers have gone out of there way to prohibit players from blowing there own ships up with their own ships. (Even Dominator specifically says 2 shields and not 2 damage.)

And WAB is a choice, and it only inflicts damage on one ship or one squadron, it is not a blanket everything at range 1 takes x damage, which is why I said what I did, the only reason you would try and damage your own Ship or squadron with WAB is to stop your opponent doing so, which is a direct contravention of the rule that prohibits you from attacking your own ships/squadrons.

Damaging Bossk is one thing, blowing your own ship up to stop your opponent scoring VPS is an entirely different matter.

And yes Ovi, only in limited cases on specific objectives, but you could prevent an opponent racking up 2-3-4-5-6 VP tokens from Superior Positions with this quite easily. Because you are the defender and attacker, you get to pick which hull zone you take the damage on, so you could have full shields on the rear (lets say 2) and 4 hull left but no shields on any other facing meaning your opponent could get 6 VPS hitting your rear arc till your ship dies, or you can trigger WAB and they get none, because you take it all on an unshielded hull zone.

The only thing I am saying here is : currently you can deal damage with WAB to your own Ship/Squadron, but I feel that is an unintentional oversight (else why stop you attacking your own ships/squadrons), which means we wait for the next FAQ, or Twitter! to find out if that is what the game designers want or not.

Ok you blow up your ship and prevent me from scoring 90 points. That means you save me 6 damage to do allowing me to put those damage somewhere else. Where I have to sign?

1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Ok you blow up your ship and prevent me from scoring 90 points. That means you save me 6 damage to do allowing me to put those damage somewhere else. Where I have to sign?

Seriously? 90 points in the bag, or perhaps nothing else in range for your squads to attack the rear of? or even attack at all? that is not a good argument.

5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

The rules on the card allow you to WAB your own ship.

it does not state enemy squadron as a restriction, and as per the golden rule a rule on a card overrides the base rules where they contradict.

As “silly” or “counterintuitive” it feels is irrelevant... set your ordnance to explode to proximity, make sure you’re not in proximity! ?

Thus, I apply the same argument you made to WAB smacking your own ship down. ?

I mean, I’ll be honest - the corner case of doing it - in such a way to save a LOT of points, requires an insane amount of both setup and luck. Because most WABs that go off are in the 1-2 point section, and if 1-2 points on one hull zone will kill you you were pretty well dead anyway and not going to give up many mission token points.

o mean, your opponent could be fated to fluff those shots scoring nothing and you have him your ship instead!

I don't disagree, I even said you can do so as per the rules.

I'm just of the view it will be clarified at some point in the future.

Just now, TheEasternKing said:

I don't disagree, I even said you can do so as per the rules.

I'm just of the view it will be clarified at some point in the future.

Eh, I’m sure if you ask it might be.

but I don’t think it’s.... iffy enough to warrant it being an “issue” on its own requiring it independently on FFGs behalf.

2 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

Seriously? 90 points in the bag, or perhaps nothing else in range for your squads to attack the rear of? or even attack at all? that is not a good argument.

90 are 6 damage!!! You will need 11 black dice rolling hits. I will let you think about it.

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

90 are 6 damage!!! You will need 11 black dice rolling hits. I will let you think about it.

I did list a specific situation, and your opponent needs to deal 6 damage, you only need to WAB 4 damage in the situation I stated.

3 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:

I did list a specific situation, and your opponent needs to deal 6 damage, you only need to WAB 4 damage in the situation I stated.

What means at least 7 black dice so you better double arc, roll hot and, of course, don't leave crits at home.

+ the situation you described

+ adding the case where you can do it and your opponent won't have something to take as response with her 6-dmg-average squadron force, for example.

1 hour ago, TheEasternKing said:

The only thing I am saying here is : currently you can deal damage with WAB to your own Ship/Squadron, but I feel that is an unintentional oversight (else why stop you attacking your own ships/squadrons), which means we wait for the next FAQ, or Twitter! to find out if that is what the game designers want or not.

Okay, then it seems I misread. I thought you were presenting what the rules are , when in fact you were saying what you believe the rules should be .

Mea culpa, in that case.

6 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Eh, I’m sure if you ask it might be.

but I don’t think it’s.... iffy enough to warrant it being an “issue” on its own requiring it independently on FFGs behalf.

This.

7 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

The rules on the card allow you to WAB your own ship.

I like the sound of that. When I charge in next time, "Time to WAB some ships!"

10 minutes ago, Muelmuel said:

This.

I like the sound of that. When I charge in next time, "Time to WAB some ships!"

To which my response is: "WAB it up, Fuzzball ..."