OK

So I understand the basic power, the 1st and 2nd control, 1st strength, all duration, but how does magnitude and range work.. in what ways can they be used?

The long form says it a little better. Magnitude means you can give the bonus effects to engaged allies, Range can extend this beyond engaged.

So, with Magnitude 1, Range 1, having rolled 4 force pip result, you could give yourself +4 success, or yourself and one ally at engaged +3 success, or yourself and one ally at close, +2 success, or yourself and one ally at medium +1 success.

Like most force powers they can get really potent at high force, with a lot of upgrades.

So with Magnitude 2 and Range 3, 6 force pips would let you give, +4 success to yourself and two allies at long range, or +3 success to yourself and four allies at long range (and with control, also free manouver and +2 defense).

It also lets you see into the future of other people engaged with you when you use Magnitude with the basic power, range allows those people to be further away.

2 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

It also lets you see into the future of other people engaged with you when you use Magnitude with the basic power, range allows those people to be further away.

Woah, really?

[checks book] Hmm...it doesn't specify that it applies both to the enhanced Initiative and the basic power. Combined with the placement of the Magnitude upgrades (beneath the enhanced Initiative upgrade; can't have the former without the latter), it makes me feel like the Magnitude upgrades were intended to only apply to Foresee used as part of an initiative check.

However, it doesn't specify that it doesn't apply to the basic power, so... maybe?

I have never seen a reason for them not to be usable in that way, and it’s not the only power like it. Look at Influence for example, mind trick and duration are on one branch, but no one would argue that the range and magnitude upgrade could not be used with them even though they are a separate.

I always thought of it as the stereotypical “psychic touches your arm and sees a vision of your future”

On 4/16/2018 at 7:57 AM, Absol197 said:

Woah, really?

[checks book] Hmm...it doesn't specify that it applies both to the enhanced Initiative and the basic power. Combined with the placement of the Magnitude upgrades (beneath the enhanced Initiative upgrade; can't have the former without the latter), it makes me feel like the Magnitude upgrades were intended to only apply to Foresee used as part of an initiative check.

However, it doesn't specify that it doesn't apply to the basic power, so... maybe?

On 4/16/2018 at 5:47 AM, Richardbuxton said:

It also lets you see into the future of other people engaged with you when you use Magnitude with the basic power, range allows those people to be further away.

that's pretty much how i treat it as well but have actually thrown people into visions of their future as a distraction

I know this thread is quite old and I apologize if this has been answered somewhere before but:

Do you always need to spend that 1 Pip of the Basic Power or does the Control Upgrade 1 (Initiative Sucess) take the Place of the Basic Power instead?

Depends on what you're trying to do. If you're rolling solely for initiative, there's no reason to spend a pip to activate the base power.

Ah yes, To clarify:
When trying to use Foresee as part of an Initiative check.

Thanks, that was also my interpretation, but its hard to be sure with the formulation in the book.

On 10/15/2019 at 12:37 AM, Vek Baustrade said:

Depends on what you're trying to do. If you're rolling solely for initiative, there's no reason to spend a pip to activate the base power.

That isn't how all Force Powers works. You always must activate the Basic Power before activating an upgrade. Because you know as the name says it clearly it is an upgrade of the Power and not a power by itself.

2 hours ago, WolfRider said:

That isn't how all Force Powers works. You always must activate the Basic Power before activating an upgrade. Because you know as the name says it clearly it is an upgrade of the Power and not a power by itself.

It's an upgrade that lets you spend pips in new ways.

There are many upgrades that do not require activation of the basic power at all.

4 hours ago, WolfRider said:

That isn't how all Force Powers works. You always must activate the Basic Power before activating an upgrade. Because you know as the name says it clearly it is an upgrade of the Power and not a power by itself.

Amazing. Every word of what you just said is wrong.

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 6:30 PM, Fl1nt said:

I know this thread is quite old and I apologize if this has been answered somewhere before but:

Do you always need to spend that 1 Pip of the Basic Power or does the Control Upgrade 1 (Initiative Sucess) take the Place of the Basic Power instead?

Ultimately, it depends on the power.

For the Foresee power, if you just want the boost to your initiative, then no, you don't have to activate the basic Foresee power.

Same with Sense, in that if you want to read a person's surface thoughts or commit a Force die to make yourself harder to hit, you don't need to activate the basic power. Similar deal with Enhance, where you can spend your Force points to bolster a given skill check covered by the Control Upgrades you've purchased or can do a Force leap without having to activate the base Enhance power.

Bind on the other hand pretty much requires you to activate the basic power in order to get any benefit of the various Control upgrades, which generally give you new options to enhance the base effect.

On 10/16/2019 at 12:27 PM, Vek Baustrade said:

Amazing. Every word of what you just said is wrong.

If you say so. Then I don't remember reading in the F&D rules that you can activate an upgrade directly. For me it implies that you must activate the bas Force Power before the upgrade you want to use. If I'm wrong please point me to the rule in F&D I missed ?

1 hour ago, WolfRider said:

If you say so. Then I don't remember reading in the F&D rules that you can activate an upgrade directly. For me it implies that you must activate the bas Force Power before the upgrade you want to use. If I'm wrong please point me to the rule in F&D I missed ?

Neither does it say you can't.

Lots of things aren't explicitly mentioned as possible.

1 hour ago, WolfRider said:

If you say so. Then I don't remember reading in the F&D rules that you can activate an upgrade directly. For me it implies that you must activate the bas Force Power before the upgrade you want to use. If I'm wrong please point me to the rule in F&D I missed ?

F&D 283 under Upgrades:

Control: Control upgrades add new effects to Force powers, or modify existing effects (adding or changing the way the Force-sensitive character spends Force points.)

Thanks. It look likes I only kept "adding" and missed "changing" in that sentence.

4 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

Thanks. It look likes I only kept "adding" and missed "changing" in that sentence.

No worries, my friend. There's a lot of rules and some of them aren't always clear.