12 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Even deploying all of your units in heavy cover or out of LoS, doesn't change the math for me. I'm not concerned as much about getting tagged in my DZ as much as being able to "unpack" I.e. Get out of my deployment zone and set up useful positions for turn 2+. In that regard, it's very helpful to be deliberate with activations. Once enemies on a given side of the table or that can draw LoS to a specific part of the table have activated, your free to be more aggressive, punch through early casualties, or park on an objective freeing up actions to just dodge/shoot or aim/shoot for the rest of the game.

In regards to RoTJ you should always play it turn 2. Luke gets a dodge token right away allowing him to hold activation until he's ready to murder or starts getting shot at and, if you start eating small and sporadic suppression, you just activate Luke and he removes 1 from everyone. There are very few reasons not to RoTJ turn 2.

MoE is a little different. In my experience, waiting for the chance to get those suppression stacks is a trap and it gives you an early dodge on Vader, again allowing him to hold activation and most, if not complete, control over your turn sequence. Personally I'd drop it turn 2 and not worry about the secondary effect, but if you do double walk to an objective turn 1, it's not out of the question that by the time Vader activates, something will be close enough.

Yea that's why I commented again saying army composition determines it. 3 AT-RTs and 5 Z-6s gives almost total control over your army ever round.

Always give orders to Luke, and then you can pick the other 1 or 2. This way when you activate, you only have 2 unit choices in the bag. And it gets stronger as you lose units. I had a game where I had 1 AT-RT and 4 troopers and Luke. Push let's me give commands to the AT-RT and Luke, while my bag contains only corps.

This is the main reason I do Standing Orders round 1. I don't care if I lose something round 1, and if I do, I gain more control over my army.

13 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

MoE is a little different. In my experience, waiting for the chance to get those suppression stacks is a trap and it gives you an early dodge on Vader, again allowing him to hold activation and most, if not complete, control over your turn sequence. Personally I'd drop it turn 2 and not worry about the secondary effect, but if you do double walk to an objective turn 1, it's not out of the question that by the time Vader activates, something will be close enough.

As a Rebel player, if I saw an Imperial drop MoE in Round two I would breathe a huge sigh of relief. I agree that sometimes you shouldn't wait for the perfect time, but if there's any way you can wait until Like is out of range or dead (or you expect he will die that round), that value of the card skyrockets.

Obviously disregard if you're in an Imperial mirror match.

13 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

MoE is a little different. In my experience, waiting for the chance to get those suppression stacks is a trap and it gives you an early dodge on Vader, again allowing him to hold activation and most, if not complete, control over your turn sequence. Personally I'd drop it turn 2 and not worry about the secondary effect, but if you do double walk to an objective turn 1, it's not out of the question that by the time Vader activates, something will be close enough.

As a Rebel player, if I saw an Imperial drop MoE in Round two I would breathe a huge sigh of relief. I agree that sometimes you shouldn't wait for the perfect time, but if there's any way you can wait until Like is out of range or dead (or you expect he will die that round), that value of the card skyrockets.

Obviously disregard if you're in an Imperial mirror match.

2 minutes ago, Big Easy said:

As a Rebel player, if I saw an Imperial drop MoE in Round two I would breathe a huge sigh of relief. I agree that sometimes you shouldn't wait for the perfect time, but if there's any way you can wait until Like is out of range or dead (or you expect he will die that round), that value of the card skyrockets.

Obviously disregard if you're in an Imperial mirror match.

I've seen MoE get held onto to the point of doing nothing far too many times. Then again, that's the point of this thread, to analyze how much value look to get before using command cards. For me, the threshold is fairly low, I'm just looking for demonstrable value and unconcerned about maximizing gains.

My experience with the opposite approach I.e. Waiting for the perfect chance, is that it too often leads to dead or ineffectual command hands on the last few turns where every victory point matters.

There are merits to both sides, but I definitely lean on the"Perfection is the worst enemy of close enough" side.

One thing to keep in mind is that the threat of a command card is often as effective as the actual card. The game changes a lot when you’ve already played both of your 1-pips, for example. Likewise, the threat of Master of Evil can really make the Rebel player think about where to put his troopers and where to put Luke.

I would rather be willing to misuse a card early on (i.e. first turn) where I can correct a mistake later in the game, but so much depends on setup, terrain, army composition, objectives, etc. that command cards are situational. There are only a few cards I might consider first turn. I agree I don't want to put my troops out there to get shot up the first turn, so both sides of this argument have merits.

If you don’t standing orders turn one and your only leader drops turn 3 (which is extremely doable with Luke unless you let me run the table) and you have to discard to standing orders and two other not assault orders than I get a titanic advantage late game. More over, if you flip an order for something you don’t want to activate yet then either dodge/standby it or move it in a way that denies shots.

A not Standing Orders turn one well might be the play after new leaders drop but for now I want the junk out of my hand asap

It depends on what units you are playing and the set up, If I'm rolling heavy Troopers (5 units ) that mean I have Vadre and 2 units of speeder bikes.

Bikes are fast so I start them off hidden and out of LOS. and Vader is a beast so it doesn't really matter what card I pick, odds are I go to the random pile I'm getting Troopers when i need them and Use Vader or the Speeders ( what ever one I had chosen ) when i need to. then you have to take into account the Battlefield. then the condition cards .

There is no right or wrong order to choose for the first turn, accept maybe ambush.

Standing Orders comes back to your hand so you don't 'lose' it, but one does gain more options later (I.e. 7 command cards turn 2, but only 5 turns to use them). Standing orders allows for one unit, but if one is playing with 3x support, placing more tokens gives more control.

3 hours ago, Bohemian73 said:

Standing Orders comes back to your hand so you don't 'lose' it, but one does gain more options later (I.e. 7 command cards turn 2, but only 5 turns to use them). Standing orders allows for one unit, but if one is playing with 3x support, placing more tokens gives more control.

It doesn't come back to my hand:P

5 hours ago, Bohemian73 said:

Standing Orders comes back to your hand so you don't 'lose' it, but one does gain more options later (I.e. 7 command cards turn 2, but only 5 turns to use them). Standing orders allows for one unit, but if one is playing with 3x support, placing more tokens gives more control.

I think I’d rather get ‘some’ tangible benefit from burning cards then just throw them away effectively by picking the worst single command card bar none.

Standing orders has a unique benefit: it often lets you pick what goes *last*. You can then reliably have that same unit go first or second. Meaning you can almost guarantee two turns of actions from something without much of an opportunity from your opponent to stop you.

I would think anyone with a T-47 would be using SO first round just about every game.

I agree that it's composition dependant. As per some folk above, I'm running a dead simple Rebel force of 5 trooper units and 3 ATRTs. Right now, I have very good control over my force even with fairly random orders, at least into the mid-game: one or two important units can get orders, and I'm good, usually.

Part of the reason I use SO first turn is that 1. my force comp doesn't usually mind what order it goes in *on the first turn*, partly because I tend to do a really cowardly first turn, and run lascannon ATRTs who have range 4 who love to see something over the table move up first activation; and 2. If I burn something like Assault, then my opponent has a better idea what I'm likely to use later. What if I want all three laser-cannon ATRTs to go 1-2-3 and burn down the last of an ATST? Can't do it. If I burned Ambush and I badly need something that isn't Luke to go first before my opponent's next activation kills it? Can't do it. Preserving your options on the first turn when it doesn't usually matter is valuable.

...btw, My Ally is the Force is my go-to second turn order unless I need an ATRT to run away first. Proxying Leia (I'm planning to move to two-commander, 4 troopers and 3 ATRT, because even with one command card Leia is awesome), it's more like Bombardment turn 1 or (usually) 2, then My Ally the turn after. Early dodge for the troopers in those early turns while they get into position is absolutely golden.

9 hours ago, Weatsop said:

Standing orders has a unique benefit: it often lets you pick what goes *last*.

That's not a unique benefit. Command cards determine how many orders you can issue - then during your turn you can choose to activate a unit with an order or pull from the bag/stack of random tokens.

21 minutes ago, Ghost Dancer said:

That's not a unique benefit. Command cards determine how many orders you can issue - then during your turn you can choose to activate a unit with an order or pull from the bag/stack of random tokens.

But it's 4 pip. With even numbers, that gives you guaranteed dead last (if they didn't pick SO). Not risking second last like every other pip number.

(E.g. an T-47 running against an ATST. If the T-47 can go last, it can come into range of the ATST after the ATST's activation is over (since it can't possibly act after the T-47), and shoot. You then have a good 50-50 chance of activating your T-47 before the ATST next round (and that's assuming they go for a one-pip like you will - and assuming they *have* one). If you do, you'll get a second attack on the ATST and end in its *rear* arc. It can't hit you this activation, as it'd need two pivots to get LOS.

Insert similar sequence with LOS-blocking terrain instead of arcs, other targets, whatever.

If you don't have the guaranteed last move, there's a good chance the other player will save that ATST for the high value target (i.e. *go last*, and wait for the T-47 to advance first). You go from 0.5 enemy attack actions for the run, to 1.5. Which is three times the damage.

Sometimes being utter last in a turn is an advantage.

I get a much lesser, but still solid, advantage by using a laser cannon ATRT (as I said: I have a cowardly first turn, usually - but this one model can be brave as you like). It can go dead last, move up into range or LOS to shoot something, then go first and shoot-then-move-back. If you're not dead last, then your opponent has an opportunity to save a counter-unit to go after your ATRT)

@Weatsop ah I see what you mean now - I misread your previous post.

I usually out activate my opponent so its not often I need to do that.

21 minutes ago, Ghost Dancer said:

@Weatsop ah I see what you mean now - I misread your previous post.

I usually out activate my opponent so its not often I need to do that.

@Ghost Dancer I ...erm... should have quoted the people I was replying too. Common courtesy.

I agree that SO is usually a mistake. Ha.