Dawn of Rebellion features NPC profiles for the cast of Rebels. There have been attempts to take those and make the characters using the PC rules. I looked at it and wanted to do the opposite. I would like to take this game and throw out the PC creation/advancement rules and have PCs that were built much more like Nemesis NPCs. That means higher overall Characteristics with far fewer Talents. These character sheets would be far less busy and the need to flip through the books or have 'cheat sheets' for talents would be gone. I got this idea when my wife (a gamer, but one that prefers rules-lite games) was looking through DoR, and I'm wondering if anyone else has already attempted something like this.
Players Playing Nemeses (Inspired by Dawn of Rebellion's Rebels)
Yeah, it does seem like an easy change- letting PCs just keep buying up stats like in chargen, and letting them buy talents without bothering with connections, would streamline characters a *lot*. Somebody must have tried the XP->stats thing even just by not noticing the rule that says it's only in chargen!
I would love to do this for "high-level" one-shots. The problem with those is there is just too much on a character sheet and player doesn't know or remember what most of them do.
9 hours ago, kaosoe said:I would love to do this for "high-level" one-shots. The problem with those is there is just too much on a character sheet and player doesn't know or remember what most of them do.
I've done low-level oneshots where every character gets 1-2 'career defining' talents that have an active use (e.g. Scathing Tirade, Side-Step) without bothering with the prerequisites, but in general they've ended up being pretty light on combat so I can't say whether or not it's hugely useful. In a one-shot equipment seems to be more of a defining factor than talents I've found.
22 hours ago, HappyDaze said:Dawn of Rebellion features NPC profiles for the cast of Rebels. There have been attempts to take those and make the characters using the PC rules. I looked at it and wanted to do the opposite. I would like to take this game and throw out the PC creation/advancement rules and have PCs that were built much more like Nemesis NPCs. That means higher overall Characteristics with far fewer Talents. These character sheets would be far less busy and the need to flip through the books or have 'cheat sheets' for talents would be gone. I got this idea when my wife (a gamer, but one that prefers rules-lite games) was looking through DoR, and I'm wondering if anyone else has already attempted something like this.
A middle ground is to go with a genesys style talent pyramid
2 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:A middle ground is to go with a genesys style talent pyramid
That's still too much potential complexity.
I really like the idea of each character having only a few talents (perhaps 5-6 talents, but multiple ranks in those few talents being fine since that doesn't increase complexity) with most of the character built around Characteristics and Skills. Make increases to WT & ST automatic at certain XP intervals (perhaps +2 WT & +1 ST per 150 XP). In fact, I could almost see switching out the tree system (which I really don't like) for an old school level-based system.
1 hour ago, HappyDaze said:That's still too much potential complexity.
I really like the idea of each character having only a few talents (perhaps 5-6 talents, but multiple ranks in those few talents being fine since that doesn't increase complexity) with most of the character built around Characteristics and Skills. Make increases to WT & ST automatic at certain XP intervals (perhaps +2 WT & +1 ST per 150 XP). In fact, I could almost see switching out the tree system (which I really don't like) for an old school level-based system.
No thank you. I prefer this to any level based system hands down. Give me a purely skill based advancement any day. .
2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:No thank you. I prefer this to any level based system hands down. Give me a purely skill based advancement any day. .
So you prefer D6 Star Wars? I too like skill-based systems, but that's not to say that they cannot incorporate levels to give discreet increments of skill points. OTOH, what FFG has given us is NOT truly a skill-based system, it is a hybrid of that along with the talent trees, and it is the latter of those that I dislike.
I would also like to see certain talents tied directly into skill ranks. For example, consider these:
Piloting (X)
Rank 2: Skilled Jockey 1 (only when operating craft with this Piloting type)
Rank 3: Defensive Driving 1 (only when operating craft with this Piloting type)
Rank 4: Skilled Jockey 2 (only when operating craft with this Piloting type)
Rank 3: Defensive Driving 2 (only when operating craft with this Piloting type)
Ranged (X)
Rank 2: Point Blank 1 (only when using a weapon with this Ranged type)
Rank 3: True Aim 1 (only when using a weapon with this Ranged type)
Rank 4: Point Blank 2 (only when using a weapon with this Ranged type)
Rank 5 True Aim 2 (only when using a weapon with this Ranged type)
54 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:So you prefer D6 Star Wars? I too like skill-based systems, but that's not to say that they cannot incorporate levels to give discreet increments of skill points. OTOH, what FFG has given us is NOT truly a skill-based system, it is a hybrid of that along with the talent trees, and it is the latter of those that I dislike.
Over D20? yep. However, my favorite game mechanics system isn't even SW related. It's the Fuzion system by R.Talsorian Games, and its predecessor, the Interlock system. These are the systems used for Cyberpunk and Mekton Z, among other games. Add your ability score, with your skill with a D10 to get a result. Each skill advances individually, and you can also buy and advance talents, perks, etc, no "trees" involved. An example of a Cyberpunk character (Fuzion rules) is my shinobi character,
Kageto:
Full name: Kuraiyama Kenichi (Name is Japanese order, Family name first)
Age: 19
Height: 5'3"
Weight: approx 145 lbs.
Shoulders: 17"
Chest: 40"
Waist: 31"
Role: Shinobi
INT: 9, REF: 10, TECH: 4, DEX: 8, COOL: 7, WILL: 8, STR: 7, CON: 9, MOVE: 10, BOD: 9
LUCK: 9, HUM: 90/72, REC: 8, END: 18, RUN: 20, SPR: 30, SWM: 10, LEAP: 10, HITS: 18, STUN: 45
Skills:
Martial Arts (Ninjutsu): 8, Awareness/Notice: 7, Hide/Evade: 4, Shadow/Track: 6, Stealth: 6, Athletics: 6, Education/Gen Knowledge: 3, Mathmatics: 3, History: 3, First Aid: 4, Swimming: 2, Kenjutsu (Niten Ichi-Ryu) 8, Archery: 6, Teaching: 6, Disguise: 5, Pick Locks: 4, Electronic Security: 4, Social Etiquette (Japanese Taditional): 8, Calligraphy (Kanji): 2, Origami: 2, Persuasion: 2, Wilderness Survival: 4, Language (Japanese): 8 (Native), Language (English): 3, Local Knowledge (Iga, Japan): 6
Perks & Talents: Combat Sense (Nindo): 9, Intuition, Light Sleeper, Family: Shinobi Clan: 8, Membership team: 4, Wealth: 6
Complications:
Code of Honor (Bushido/Nindo): -30, Vow: Protect Tommie-chan: -30, Mortal Enemy (Onikage-gumi Yakuza): -25, Duty (Team): -25, Vow: Never use Guns: -20, Stubborn: -10, Bad Temper: -2, Distinctive Feature (accent): -6, Secret Secret Identity(Shinobi): -3, Shy: -2
Weapons:
500+ year old masterwork heirloom Tamahagane steel Katana: WA: +2, Con: N, AV: R, DAMAGE: 3D6* (1/2 Hard), REL: VR, RNG: 1m, Cost: NA
500+ year old Masterwork heirloom Tamahagane steel Wakizashi: WA: +1, Con: L, AV: R, DAMAGE: 2D6+3* 91/2 Hard), REL: VR, RNG: 1m, Cost: NA
500+ year old Masterwork heirloom, Tamahagane steel Tanto: WA: +1, CON: J, AV: R, DAMAGE: 1D6* (1/2 Hard), REL: VR, RNG: 1m, Cost: NA
Juji-Shuriken (10): WA: +0, COn: P, QV; C, DAMAGE: 1D6/2*, REL: NA, RNG: Throw, Cost: 2-3
Bo-Shuriken (10): WA: +0, Con: P, AV: C, DAMAGE: 1D6*, REL: NA, RNG: Throw, Cost: 4-7
Eagletech "Wildcat" recurve bow w/ broadhead arrows: WA: +0, Con: N, AV: E, Damage; 3D6 x2*, SHTS: 12, RF: 1, REL: VR, RNG, 100m, Cost: 35/40
Ninja Smoke Pellets: WA: +0, CON: P, AV: C, DAMAGE: 3m Obscured vison, SHTS: 5, ROF: 1, REL: NA, RNG: Throw, Cost 25
Equipment: B&E Tools, Futon: Mini Cell Phone with coverage, Carry Bag, Gibson BattleGear Bodysuit (SP 10 Torso/Legs)** Eji of Japan Spider Silk Hooded Kataginu (SP 14 Torso/Head)**, Eji of Japan Jika Tabi**, Eji of Japan Spider Silk Hachimaki (SP 12 Head), Gibson Battlegear Utility Belt**, Takanaka Spider Silk Kimono (SP 10 Torso/Arms)***, Takanaka Spider Silk Unamori Hakama*** with Obi, (SP 14 Legs), Takanaka Spider Silk Kataginu (SP 14 Torso)***,Takanaka Tabi Socks***, Takanaka Zori Sandals ***, Mastoid. Commo, Health Coverage, Trauma Team Coverage
Cyberware: Armored Standard Cyber Arms w/ standard hands (SP 20)
* AP
** +2 Wardrobe & Style
*** +3 Wardrobe & Style
Kuraiyama Kenichi Kageto was born the first son to the heir of the Kuraiyama family, an ancient Shinobi clan of the Samurai class from Iga Province dating back over 500 years to their founder, Kuraiyama Kenji Kageto, from whom Kenichi takes his common name. , and still maintain their hidden estate, Dojo, and training grounds below the southern slopes of Mt Kasatori between the modern cities of Iga and Nabari on the Aoyama Plateau. Since childhood, he has been raised and trained by private tutors until he began high school (at one of the region's most prestigious schools) to succeed his grandfather as head of the clan following the murder of his parents by the Onikage-gumi Yakuza. He has a younger brother and sister. Extremely talented in the Shinobi arts, Kageto had already attained the rank of Jonin by the age of 18. After graduation from High school, he was sent by his grandfather, along with his mentor and a bodyguard, to the Middle East war zone on a trade negotiation with José Carlos Mirandez—head of Buccaneer Enterprises (an international weapons and technology consortium), who was currently in the region at the time. The mission would see them betrayed by their bodyguard, his mentor's torture and death at the hands of the enemy "Caliphate" forces , his being stranded behind enemy lines for nearly a year along with a ragtag group of survivors—consisting of Mirandez, the man's daughter, Maria, and Marc Helrich (a big Australian gun-runner who would soon become his best friend, and surrogate "older brother"), and several escaped "POWs" lead by a Delta Force Command Sergeant Major—and the loss of his arms to his mentor's murderer before finally escaping the war zone and being taken to the US. It is in the US, at age 19, with new cybernetic arms (made by Maria), that he would meet someone who would become the most important person in his life from that point forward—Tommie Jean Davis, a young, innocent Alabama "tomboy" who has taken it upon herself to "break him out of his shell"— as well as become embroiled in an Onikage plot which could have far reaching consequences for him, his friends, his clan, and the world.
Personality and motivations: The events in Kageto's life has resulted in an individual of sullen, quiet, and introverted temperment who does not make friends easily. However, when he does, they become family whom he would lay down his life for. Stubborn, grumpy, and more than a bit "pig-headed", he also has a very strong sense of tradition, honor, and duty, and will stop at nothing to keep his word, fulfill his objectives, and live up to his code. His passion for tradition also affects his sense of style. He is most comfortable in traditional Japanese clothing, and his back is covered in a traditionally done Irezumi tattoo which extends from the tops of his shoulders to his waist. His most prized possession is his Daisho—a matched katana and wakizashi, forged together by a master swordsmith more than 500 years ago, and first wielded by the founder of his family.
This character was built with 120 Character Points plus additional CP bought by taking a number of complications. The system also has one of the most detailed, yet easy to use, life-path systems I've ever seen. You could never build a character like this in D20.
Edited by Tramp Graphics
Since that's pretty irrelevant to this thread, would you mind putting that sprawling character description behind spoiler tags?