the forum is currently in middle of schism; i feel FFG should create two distinct groups.

Happy X-Wingers

Unhappy X-Wingers

Just scan the content; they post and filter them into these groups; if they make lots of happy post move them into the happy group; unhappy post will move you into unhappy X-Wing group, make is so they move between groups

2 hours ago, the1hodgy said:

the forum is currently in middle of schism; i feel FFG should create two distinct groups.

Happy X-Wingers

Unhappy X-Wingers

Just scan the content; they post and filter them into these groups; if they make lots of happy post move them into the happy group; unhappy post will move you into unhappy X-Wing group, make is so they move between groups

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

8 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Even tho the forums are descending into chaos and anarchy... I still spend all my downtime at work here. p.s. it's really slow at work right now. you guy's and gal's are entertaining. thanks

Lol chaos and anarchy

You weren't here for the PGS days, eh?

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Lol chaos and anarchy

You weren't here for the PGS days, eh?

PGS?

probably was, but work hasn't been this slow in years...

3 hours ago, Wiredin said:

PGS?

probably was, but work hasn't been this slow in years...

I don’t want to summon him/her/it

Para

Goomba

Slayer

probably mid-spelt it

18 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

I don’t want to summon him/her/it

Para

Goomba

Slayer

probably mid-spelt it

oh yea... i was here for that....

20 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

I don’t want to summon him/her/it

Para

Goomba

Slayer

probably mid-spelt it

If you say it three times in the mirror, his Spectre will teach out and beat you to death with your own dash rendar yt or Palp shuttle

I still blame FFG for this. We had this issue all the way back in Wave 4 the birth of the OP meta.

When FFG was more constrained with rebalancing things and keeping it in core rules and not Pen & Ink changes it didn't add fuel to the fire as so to say.

However FFG could have alleviated the strain just a little by including some QoL erratas with their bunch of Reballancing Pen & Ink nerfs they have set the negativity that is experienced in the forums today. The only time they actually give a positive "buff" to something is when it is getting re-released (which happens too far and few between).

So now there is only one solution to any meta problem. No it is not encouraging counter play or buffing the mechanics that the top meta lists are weak to. It is simply NERF IT ALL, and if I lost it isn't because of a good play or bad luck it is I saw one model/pilot/upgrade in that list therfore the whole list needs to be nerfed.

If your only tool is a hammer...

For my part, I kinda wish I hadn't started this thread. All I had wanted to do was say that the game wasn't going to die and be abandoned by FFG. I was trying to counter the 'xwing is dead?' thread because I was worried that if a new forum reader saw it they might believe it and give up on the game. Maybe I shouldn't have added the clickbaiter part but I was annoyed because half that poster's threads have the word dead in them and all of them end in question marks which is a clear clickbait tactic.

Anyway, seeing the threads that have spawned off this one makes me sad because instead of helping, all I've done is divide the community more. For that, I am sorry, from now on I'll be more careful with my posts.

Guess you could say we're really running off the rails in this crazy train

14 hours ago, SOTL said:

TBF it pretty much was DOA. Then after arrival LWF arrived, a slew of nerfs shook things up, and the TIE/sf became a thing.

It was a thing before that. The dial is mostly terrible and that's what the pundits were reacting to. I also thought they wouldn't be very good, but I ran them with MK II engines and advanced sensors so they actually had great mobility and always had an action despite all the red on the dial. With MK II engines they had 9 green maneuvers.

2 hours ago, Arschbombe said:

It was a thing before that. The dial is mostly terrible and that's what the pundits were reacting to. I also thought they wouldn't be very good, but I ran them with MK II engines and advanced sensors so they actually had great mobility and always had an action despite all the red on the dial. With MK II engines they had 9 green maneuvers.

It was released in wave 9. Aside from JM5Ks still dominating every competitive scene, it came out alongside two things: Asajj and Fenn Rau. Fenn preyed on exactly the kind of ship that the SF wants to be, and Asajj laughs at their lack of green turns and turrets. So sure, they were better than B-wings and pre-boost Defenders, but other things in wave 9 did make them DOA.

Without LWF, they were all garbage. With LWF, all of them except Quickdraw were garbage competitively. And quickdraw only became great when harpoons were introduced.

13 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Anyway, seeing the threads that have spawned off this one makes me sad because instead of helping, all I've done is divide the community more. For that, I am sorry, from now on I'll be more careful with my posts.

Why should you have to be careful? as the "Wave-whiner" or if you will a "WaWhiner" (as waaaaa is the sound a baby makes; which is fitting for them) aren't. am coining that term by the way.

It's not your fault, everyone has an opinion and everyone is right apparently, nobody is (a select few do) are willing to look at the data.

4 hours ago, Astech said:

It was released in wave 9. Aside from JM5Ks still dominating every competitive scene, it came out alongside two things: Asajj and Fenn Rau. Fenn preyed on exactly the kind of ship that the SF wants to be, and Asajj laughs at their lack of green turns and turrets. So sure, they were better than B-wings and pre-boost Defenders, but other things in wave 9 did make them DOA.

Without LWF, they were all garbage. With LWF, all of them except Quickdraw were garbage competitively. And quickdraw only became great when harpoons were introduced.

That's not true either. The reality is somewhere in between and QD established himself as the premier Imp Ace pretty much right after the Striker gave him LWF. It was just at a time when Imps in general were feeling the pain from mass bombing and Mindlinking.

14 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

For my part, I kinda wish I hadn't started this thread. All I had wanted to do was say that the game wasn't going to die and be abandoned by FFG. I was trying to counter the 'xwing is dead?' thread because I was worried that if a new forum reader saw it they might believe it and give up on the game. Maybe I shouldn't have added the clickbaiter part but I was annoyed because half that poster's threads have the word dead in them and all of them end in question marks which is a clear clickbait tactic.

Anyway, seeing the threads that have spawned off this one makes me sad because instead of helping, all I've done is divide the community more. For that, I am sorry, from now on I'll be more careful with my posts.

I'm glad you did make this thread. It has encouraged the people who feel X-wing is a good game to post more.

I've read most of the positive and negative posts and (without adding the numbers up) it seems that there are slightly more posters who think the game is terrible than who think the game is wonderful, but the vast majority are actually on a spectrum between those extremes.

Overall, certain things still need a bit of balancing, but it's better than when jumpmasters dominated everything.

3 hours ago, SOTL said:

That's not true either. The reality is somewhere in between and QD established himself as the premier Imp Ace pretty much right after the Striker gave him LWF. It was just at a time when Imps in general were feeling the pain from mass bombing and Mindlinking.

Both generics were inherently inferior to the aces; that's simply the way small-base Imperials are costed (gunboats being the exception). Backdraft's ability - while nice - didn't compare to whole extra attacks from QD, so Backdraft was only an option if you already had QD in a list, at which point doubling down on SFs left you vulnerable.

As I recall deadeye hadn't been nerfed yet, but regardless you were either looking at triple 4-die attacks from turreted 9 hull platforms or Dengaroo, which is even worse for slow, single-mod ships. There wasn't a single thing the SF could do that JM5Ks couldn't do better or, failing that, that Fenn Rau couldn't do better.

Quickdraw was also released just after Imperial Veterans dropped, and QD was eclipsed until the X7 nerf by the wholly superior Maarek, Vessery and Ryad as mid-cost Imperial Aces. A couple of double-taps didn't compare to a free evade on every ship each round, plus native AGI3, a fantastic dial and great pilot abilities. X7s were the dominant Imperial meta until their nerf, some time later.

13 hours ago, Astech said:

It was released in wave 9. Aside from JM5Ks still dominating every competitive scene, it came out alongside two things: Asajj and Fenn Rau. Fenn preyed on exactly the kind of ship that the SF wants to be, and Asajj laughs at their lack of green turns and turrets. So sure, they were better than B-wings and pre-boost Defenders, but other things in wave 9 did make them DOA.

Without LWF, they were all garbage. With LWF, all of them except Quickdraw were garbage competitively. And quickdraw only became great when harpoons were introduced.

They weren't DOA or garbage before LWF. I expected them to be, but I flew them anyway. I ran Quickdraw and Backdraft with Predator, Advanced Sensors, MKII engines, and the title along with a pair of Epsilon FOs.

They worked a lot better than I expected and I won so consistently that I ended up getting a third SF. They were deceptively maneuverable because all the greens made up for red and they could always get an action. Predator meant every attack had at least some modification.

I switched to LWF when the striker came out like everyone else, but I think the only reason the SF didn't get popular before that was because people decided it was garbage in advance and never gave it a chance. It's fairly common around here for people to assess things as garbage without actually testing them. It took a while Atanni mindlink to catch on too.

Man I don't get the TIE/SF is garbage pre lwf

Yeah statiscally that LWF really helps, but for me it's just another blank result.

Been using backdraft since before the x7 errata, alongside two x7s, and the little guy always pulled his weight. The SF statline is solid, the dial not nearly as bad as people made it out to be (mostly a product of "this baby can really move" memes), and the aux arc was quite useful

it simply wasn't accepted into the meta until x7/palp erratas and when prenerf Nym necessitated PS 11s. LWF is just a neat, over emphasized bonus (though it's nice for having a chance at dodging a tlt shot)

I agree. I used the SF a lot without LWF and had a good amount of success with it.

23 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Man I don't get the TIE/SF is garbage pre lwf

Yeah statiscally that LWF really helps, but for me it's just another blank result.

Been using backdraft since before the x7 errata, alongside two x7s, and the little guy always pulled his weight. The SF statline is solid, the dial not nearly as bad as people made it out to be (mostly a product of "this baby can really move" memes), and the aux arc was quite useful

it simply wasn't accepted into the meta until x7/palp erratas and when prenerf Nym necessitated PS 11s. LWF is just a neat, over emphasized bonus (though it's nice for having a chance at dodging a tlt shot)

I think that this was the narrative because it looked so much like an X-wing, but people that actually played them found they did pretty well, especially Quickdraw. I do agree that it probably didn't see widespread use until LWF, but I made Day 2 of World's using GC instead of LWF and missile loadout and that's after LWF was introduced. I didn't have the best finish at that point, but I attribute that to the fact that my final three matches were against three of the best players X-wing players out there: Duncan Howard, Travis Johnson, and Paul Heaver.

I think you got it with the Xwing statline

But when I look at lwf and it becomes a TIE/D which ain't much more impressive

On 4/19/2018 at 7:34 PM, Marinealver said:

The only time they actually give a positive "buff" to something is when it is getting re-released (which happens too far and few between).

I think one of the devs even stated as much in an interview, at least regarding cards: it's easier from them to release something new that does the same thing, only better, than to rebalance something underpowered.

On 4/19/2018 at 10:49 AM, DXCrazytrain said:

For my part, I kinda wish I hadn't started this thread. All I had wanted to do was say that the game wasn't going to die and be abandoned by FFG. I was trying to counter the 'xwing is dead?' thread because I was worried that if a new forum reader saw it they might believe it and give up on the game. Maybe I shouldn't have added the clickbaiter part but I was annoyed because half that poster's threads have the word dead in them and all of them end in question marks which is a clear clickbait tactic.

Anyway, seeing the threads that have spawned off this one makes me sad because instead of helping, all I've done is divide the community more. For that, I am sorry, from now on I'll be more careful with my posts.

Well the divide is not the fault of this post. You really can't be anymore careful then you already were. You are right the game is not dead and they sky hasn't fallen however people are not happy with the game and others are not happy with the way FFG has handled the meta. Thing is everyone likes to blame each other for FFG's failings.

11 hours ago, LordBlades said:

I think one of the devs even stated as much in an interview, at least regarding cards: it's easier from them to release something new that does the same thing, only better, than to rebalance something underpowered.

true but there has to be a counterbalance to Nerf Everything that Wins, which seems to be the tone set by FFG and is echoed throughout these forums. If these nerfs are a positive to the play experience then why are the podcast still complaining about the stale meta, why are there still need to nerf this and nerf that threads going around with just a different name in the blank? This isn't working, it hasn't worked before and it will still not work even after the top list in worlds gets nerfed right after.

Definition of insanity anyone?