We've had the 2 biggest regionals ever, Worlds has to use a lottery because so many people want to go, the Mouse is putting out yearly movies that give us new ships, and I don't know about your area but we've had a half dozen new or returning players in the last couple months.

So please, do not encourage the ones who say it's dying by responding to their clickbait threads. We don't need that kind of toxic crap around here and if we ignore it maybe it'll go away.

Now then, since we've established that Xwing has a future, what would you like to see in said future? Me, I would love to see Republic and Separtist factions added to the game.

tl:dr Don't encourage clickbait and tell me your vision of Xwing's future.

I forsee a TIE Reaper preview...

As long as the game doesn't die first.

The only problem I have with the current state of X-wing is not having enough time to play it!

I want a scum Falcon that has different stats than just a recovered yt1300. So something to show it hasn’t been kitted out yet. Mobile arc, outer rim smuggler stats for all, something.

I want my resistance Awing too.

Lastly, I want scum to have a big epic like the cr90 or raider for the other factions.

6 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

I forsee a TIE Reaper preview...

As long as the game doesn't die first.

Actually, something dying is about the best chance we'll get of seeing some sort of Reaper

7 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

I forsee a TIE Reaper preview...

As long as the game doesn't die first.

Dying for that preview.

7 minutes ago, Gilarius said:

The only problem I have with the current state of X-wing is not having enough time to play it!

I hear ya, one night a week does not scratch my Xwing itch.

I think we are just used to rapid change and releases that we are not used to this lull.

I wouldn't be as antsy for news if it wasn't for the SAW article that is just teasing me! I still love this game, and I love that I can fly some really fun stuff and still do okay. I couldn't do that in the "Nym is everywhere" meta. I burnt out hard there... but this, this has been fun.

30 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

I hear ya, one night a week does not scratch my Xwing itch.

Not been able to play since Yavin, back in March. Boo. Too many family events over Easter plus a blanket ban on tournaments for April due to being allowed out for a long weekend away in Birmingham.

7 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

We've had the 2 biggest regionals ever, Worlds has to use a lottery because so many people want to go, the Mouse is putting out yearly movies that give us new ships, and I don't know about your area but we've had a half dozen new or returning players in the last couple months.

So please, do not encourage the ones who say it's dying by responding to their clickbait threads. We don't need that kind of toxic crap around here and if we ignore it maybe it'll go away.

Now then, since we've established that Xwing has a future, what would you like to see in said future? Me, I would love to see Republic and Separatist factions added to the game.

tl:dr Don't encourage clickbait and tell me your vision of Xwing's future.

Big events are great and all, but they're only one small part of the community - with casual and home-grown players making up the vast majority. The game's growing, sure, but highlighting large events in large population centres isn't really relevant. Many people express concerns that X-wing's rapid-fire release schedule is hard on the wallet (to keep up with the power creep) and on the game, since development is rushed and they 'miss' things like the JM5K.

Clickbait sucks, but the concerns voiced by the community are valid. If they're not addressed, the problem will grow.

I'd love Republic and Seprartists in the game; even as their own factions. If you dive into the old canon they've got about as many ships as the Rebellion and Empire, with unique tricks like droid pilots (stress decreases pilot skill?) and clones (IG-like synergies, anyone?). In the future, I'd like to see the First Order and Resistance separated from the guys they're copying, just to make a nice distinction between the three factions. In terms of design space, X-wing's future is bright.

Our CaC was the biggest turnout we’ve ever had.

9 hours ago, Astech said:

Clickbait sucks, but the concerns voiced by the community are valid. If they're not addressed, the problem will grow.

I can’t agree with you here. Most of the problems raised by the community are not valid, they are born out of salt and frustrations out of players self imposing other rules on themselves that make their version of the game harder.

The problems won’t grow maybe some folk will perceive their own problem growing due to a steadfast refusal to adapt their gameplay to the current game design.

As OP said - the game is in a great, healthy and growing place. No need to rain on a positivity thread by recanting the lines you’ve heard on podcasts for the last few months

From my point of view there are TWO X Wing games.

Hard Core tournament play. Strong.

Casual players. Collectors. Star Wars fans. Family gamers. Falling. But falling from a high peak, so no drama... till now.

Best selling miniatures game.

dead after 6 years.

X-wing we hardly knew ye.

XWM

2012-18

RIP

’When in doubt, Focus.’

9 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Best selling miniatures game.

dead after 6 years.

X-wing we hardly knew ye.

XWM

2012-18

RIP

’When in doubt, Focus.’

Can I have your stuff?

This whole discussion across all three or four threads in summary:

A: "X-Wing is dying!"

B: "Tournament attendances are higher than ever."

A: "But that's a minority of all players and other numbers are dropping."

B: "It's the #1 selling miniatures game."

A: "But never mind that the things we have data for show success, casual play [which we conveniently have absolutely no data for] is dying! All ten people I know are quitting so every other group must feel the same!"

"Ghost Fenn and Miranda are the most fun I've had in years!"

-Europe

28 minutes ago, Dreadai said:

I can’t agree with you here. Most of the problems raised by the community are not valid, they are born out of salt and frustrations out of players self imposing other rules on themselves that make their version of the game harder.

The problems won’t grow maybe some folk will perceive their own problem growing due to a steadfast refusal to adapt their gameplay to the current game design.

As OP said - the game is in a great, healthy and growing place. No need to rain on a positivity thread by recanting the lines you’ve heard on podcasts for the last few months

I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about; people intentionally not flying the best list they can, yada yada. That's definitely a discussion worth having, but there are valid concerns too. FFG continues to create ships, pilots and upgrades that require no skill to fly - you just remember triggers and win games based on statistical superiority. Examples include Sabine, TLT, Rebel Fenn and so on.

Add to that the classic'essential upgrade in expensive box' catch 22 for players on a budget (almost everyone). Take a look at the current top 2 and their bare minimum list price (at the end of the post in a spoiler, to declutter the thread). Prices are Australian.

Now I've never played a meta list. I've never actually touched a JM5K. But I fly very strong lists (Tier 1, by my estimation) with a high skill ceiling. They provide an enormously fun game, which means I'm already winning over almost every meta player since the beginning of the game. I don't have problems per se with meta lists existing, or players flying them. But FFG is incredibly slow to update the FAQ (the sole exception being Final Form), so you get a ship or list utterly dominating the competitive scene for over a year, then being nerfed when it had already been power crept out of use. X-wing currently has a design philosophy aimed at competitive players - those who want to win everything all the time, as quickly as possible. Expressing any creativity, ever, is a disadvantage. So every competitive player comes to a tournament either kidding themselves into thinking they're going to make the cut, or being happy that their opponents neutered their chances to beat you.

My play style involves quadjumpers, kihraxz fighters, B-17s and so on, and I'll beat meta lists often. But I'm playing at an inherent disadvantage. I'm not frustrated at playing a single meta list in a regionals, but I'll rage at travelling at huge expense (for me) to play against the exact same thing I played at home three times in a row.

As for podcasts, I haven't listened to any at all since the new year, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from. Typically, the majr podcasts are hosted by highly skilled players, so probably worth a listen anyway.

18 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

This whole discussion across all three or four threads in summary:

A: "X-Wing is dying!"

B: "Tournament attendances are higher than ever."

A: "But that's a minority of all players and other numbers are dropping."

B: "It's the #1 selling miniatures game."

A: "But never mind that the things we have data for show success, casual play [which we conveniently have absolutely no data for] is dying! All ten people I know are quitting so every other group must feel the same!"

That's the OP's clickbait, often enough. But look at some of the comments and you'll find:

A: "X-wing is losing its skill-based design philosophy in favour of over-synergistic combinations of cards."

B: "You can do that too, you know."

A: "We want to have fun in the pursuit of winning, not just win the same game over and over again with lists that fly themselves."

B: "Then go play casual games."

A: "So you admit it! X-wing is a game that's incapable of appealing, on a competitive basis, to players wanting a skill-based game."

Just to compare the price of a list: try the 5 Cartel Marauders?

Vaksai title; Contraband Cybernetics; Thread Tracers; Munitions Failsafe; and Guidance Chips. Times 5.

I borrow cards, because this gets very expansive. Which is not a solution if everyone flies the same thing.

However, my list wrecks Ghost/Fenn very easily and has a decent chance against Nym and Miranda. Shame it loses to so many other lists - and also a shame that I've never actually had the fun of wrecking either of those top meta lists in actual tournaments because I keep getting all the other match ups which counter me!

Why aren't my tournaments full of these bugbear lists?! It's too diverse!

10 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Just to compare the price of a list: try the 5 Cartel Marauders?

Vaksai title; Contraband Cybernetics; Thread Tracers; Munitions Failsafe; and Guidance Chips. Times 5.

I borrow cards, because this gets very expansive. Which is not a solution if everyone flies the same thing.

However, my list wrecks Ghost/Fenn very easily and has a decent chance against Nym and Miranda. Shame it loses to so many other lists - and also a shame that I've never actually had the fun of wrecking either of those top meta lists in actual tournaments because I keep getting all the other match ups which counter me!

Why aren't my tournaments full of these bugbear lists?! It's too diverse!

If the judges were following tournament rules, you wouldn't even be able to borrow proxy the cards to make the list, so you're looking at, what, $550 AUD for the list? All you're showing is that the hard counters for meta lists can be even more expensive.

5 Marauders is, at best, a 3rd tier list. Astonishing how lists with any kind of synergy at all manage to beat it? If you made it through to the cut, then you'd have a list that is okay at dealing with Ghost/Fenn.

Of course, 8 TIE fighters is even better against Ghost/Fenn, and will shred Final Form to pieces given half a chance. It's also a third the price, at most.

6 minutes ago, Astech said:

If the judges were following tournament rules, you wouldn't even be able to borrow the cards to make the list, so you're looking at, what, $550 AUD for the list? All you're showing is that the hard counters for meta lists can be even more expensive.

Last I checked, tournament rules require players to have official cards for all pilots and upgrades, but don't prohibit borrowing. Are TOs supposed to ask for receipts for all the expansions that all the cards came from?

3 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

Last I checked, tournament rules require players to have official cards for all pilots and upgrades, but don't prohibit borrowing. Are TOs supposed to ask for receipts for all the expansions that all the cards came from?

Borrowing is great. It doesn't change the fact that the list costs an astounding amount for very little except the generic "swarm beats X but loses to everything else" situation X-wing is currently in. Someone still has to buy all the cards, or a group of someones.

I suppose if TOs did have to prove ownership of ships, the recipt isn't enough. If you paid cash you're in trouble, but if the payment was made via card or online you could provide the TO with your bank details. Then identity theft comes into play, so I suppose photo ID and birth certificate are going to be necessary. Neither of those records are normally available to the public, so I guess you'd have to host the tournament in a government building. They don't normally have big halls, except for parliament, so I guess you could give every game a cubicle, and register each player's identity information separately, without allowing them to speak to each other or move cubicles to avoid player swapping. None of this sounds particularly appealing...

I suppose those 'proof of purchase' tokens were actually meant for something after ell, eh?

Astech, are you being contrary just for the sake of being contrary? Borrowing stuff is absolutely fine and happens a lot. TOs themselves will lend stuff out.

And you missed my entire point of running the cartel marauders: they are a hard counter to what you are claiming is a terribly annoying list which you seem to be encountering all the time - a list I barely see and would love to face just so I can wreck it.

Yet, as you point out, it loses big time. Why is that? Could it be because Ghost/Fenn isn't actually that prevalent in the real world?

2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

"Ghost Fenn and Miranda are the most fun I've had in years! ...but I hope like h**l I don’t have to play against it."

-America

1 hour ago, Astech said:

If the judges were following tournament rules, you wouldn't even be able to borrow the cards to make the list, so you're looking at, what, $550 AUD for the list? All you're showing is that the hard counters for meta lists can be even more expensive.

Ummm, tournament rules say the official things have to be there. They say nothing about whether or not you own it all. My community frequently loans out extra upgrade cards when needed amongst each other. This argument is nonsense.