if a ship k turns behined an enemy and fits in perfectly but is making contact, is that treated the same as if it actually overlapped?

No

To elaborate there is no "touching" condition unless there was an overlap to establish it. If a ship doing a k-turn "fits in perfectly" then it never touches the other ship so there is no overlap. If it DOES touch the other ship then there is an overlap and the ship wouldn't complete the turn and would move back along the movement template until it is no longer touching. If you're trying to k-turn over a ship this usually means that now you're on the opposite side of the ship but still facing it.

2 minutes ago, StevenO said:

No

Can you point out in the reference material, the passage you’re basing your reply on?

6 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

Can you point out in the reference material, the passage you’re basing your reply on?

Can you show me where the ships are touching? That is "touching" as in the game term that prevents two ships from normally attacking each other as opposed to the common English idea of two things in extremely close proximity.

I don't have the references handy to look through them to find it for you right now. Now if you can find where they are touching and where touching is defined you'll probably find your answer there as well.

7 hours ago, PanchoX1 said:

if a ship k turns behined an enemy and fits in perfectly but is making contact, is that treated the same as if it actually overlapped?

If when you try and put the ship down, it is touching the other ship then that is an overlap. At that point you would go back along the manoeuvre template to the last point where you can successfully place your ship. You wouldn't complete the K-Turn

Rules reference page 15 Overlapping Ships and page 19 Touching

Quote

A ship overlaps another ship when executing a maneuver if its base overlaps the other ships base. If this happens, move the moving ship backward along the template until it is no longer overlapping another ships. ... Once the ships is no longer overlapping another ship, place it so that it is touching the last ship i overlapped.

Quote

Two ships are touching if one ship overlapped the other ship while executing a maneuver and their base is touching as a result.

So it only counts as touching if they overlapped and are moved back as a result of that, other forms of touching does not count as overlap. It even gives an example of 2 ships that where overlapping the last turn and parallel to each other and then did the same maneuver they are not considered overlapping and touching even if their bases are in physically contact.

An interesting faq ruling that sort of contradicts the above a little is that if 2 ships are touching and one of the ship does a 0 (stop) maneuver it will still be considered touching. It has to move away to not be considered touching again.

Yup. Touching is a keyword, not a natural english description.

Ships can be in base to base contact without the Touching condition being established, in a number of different ways, including but not limited to barrel or tallon rolling, precision movement, and bumping into the rear of one another on a previous turn then doing an identical move.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yup. Touching is a keyword, not a natural english description.

Ships can be in base to base contact without the Touching condition being established, in a number of different ways, including but not limited to barrel or tallon rolling, precision movement, and bumping into the rear of one another on a previous turn then doing an identical move.

the case was, they were in physical contact but not overlapped. Is there something in the rules to back this up that I can show my opponent? I understood it the way Thespaceinvader described but my opponent wanted to see it in the rules and i could only find the overlap portions. We ended up letting the ship do the k turn but didn't let it attack the ship in physical contact. I think that was not correct as there was no overlap and the ship should have been allowed to attack.

The citation from McGregor is the thing to look at. It defines what "touching" is. Any game scenario that's not that is not "touching".

So if you were able to place the ship flat then it didn't overlap. If it didn't overlap then it's not "touching". Whether the bases are in physical contact is irrelevant. FFG using the word touching when they mean "touching" is an unfortunate bit of confusion that comes up a lot.

14 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

the case was, they were in physical contact but not overlapped. Is there something in the rules to back this up that I can show my opponent? I understood it the way Thespaceinvader described but my opponent wanted to see it in the rules and i could only find the overlap portions. We ended up letting the ship do the k turn but didn't let it attack the ship in physical contact. I think that was not correct as there was no overlap and the ship should have been allowed to attack.

In the Rules Reference....

TOUCHING

Two ships are touching if one ship overlapped the other ship while executing a maneuver and their bases are touching as a result. A ship cannot attack another ship that it is touching.

So, ergo, the only time a ships is "touching" anything is if if overlapped something. If you did a maneuver and the ship's base can fit flat, then its not "touching" within the game mechanic.

Back to the original post though, using the plain English version of the word touching... If the ship is touching after executing the K-Turn then it would be classed as overlapping and would need to go back along the movement template until the point that it bumped and was then considered touching.

The original post implies that the ship did the K-TURN but was touching (plain English) after doing it, which is an overlap.

Can we not use 'in base contact' rather than touching, when describing situations that are not the result of an overlap?

1 hour ago, benlane17 said:

Back to the original post though, using the plain English version of the word touching... If the ship is 'in base contact' after executing the K-Turn then it would be classed as overlapping and would need to go back along the movement template until the point that it bumped and was then considered 'touching'.

The original post implies that the ship did the K-TURN but was 'in base contact' (plain English) after doing it, which is an overlap.

Altered to 'in base contact'.

Actually that helps it make sense.

4 minutes ago, benlane17 said:

did the K-TURN but was 'in base contact' (plain English) after doing it, which is an overlap.

No it is not. An overlap is exactly the english description of the word... when something is over another. If the ship base was not overlaping then it was not an overlap...

If you can complete the maneuver and the ship base fall flat on the mat, yes they are in base contact but they never overlap.

1 minute ago, muribundi said:

No it is not. An overlap is exactly the english description of the word... when something is over another. If the ship base was not overlaping then it was not an overlap...

If you can complete the maneuver and the ship base fall flat on the mat, yes they are in base contact but they never overlap.

Correct. There is no act of touching that can occur outside of overlapping. If you move your ship and it sits flat... its not "touching."

Indeed. the point is that in base contact does NOT trigger touching. Only not being able to put the base down flat on that mat does.

Thanks guys, you've all helped in being able to explain the rule to other players a bit better.