Hey guys,

I hope you could give me some feedback about my preliminary Rebels tournament list.

Idea is to use the AT-RTs in the center of the army. The AT-RTs shall give fire support esp. vs other AT-RTs or AT-STs. Laser cannons should do some work. They shall provide light cover to trooper units that follow them. The ion trooper shall be used in order to steal an activation from vehicles. The flanks shall be covered by Gatling guns, so Speeder bikes would melt pretty fast.

The rebel unit without any upgrades shall cover the objective which is supposed to be very close to my deploy,net zone. Hence, I don’t want to waste any ponits on a squad that only exists to hold an objective in the background.

What you think?

15 hours ago, Terrorjedi said:

Hey guys,

I hope you could give me some feedback about my preliminary Rebels tournament list.

Idea is to use the AT-RTs in the center of the army. The AT-RTs shall give fire support esp. vs other AT-RTs or AT-STs. Laser cannons should do some work. They shall provide light cover to trooper units that follow them. The ion trooper shall be used in order to steal an activation from vehicles. The flanks shall be covered by Gatling guns, so Speeder bikes would melt pretty fast.

The rebel unit without any upgrades shall cover the objective which is supposed to be very close to my deploy,net zone. Hence, I don’t want to waste any ponits on a squad that only exists to hold an objective in the background.

What you think?

I don't like the Z6 because of the white dices and the lack of the stormies surge ability. AT least the MPL has a better and constant output and brings in impact and ion.

The conclussion grenades are great for stormies, but for rebels I prefer the impact grenades.

The laser RT's are today not very valuable, because of the lack of possible targets other than another RT's.

I agree with @TobiWan

Dropping the cannons for the rotary blasters will give you more bang for your buck.

I would also try and fit in 10 points for another trooper, their black dice and extra wound will lengthen out your forces more than you think.

4 hours ago, TobiWan said:

I don't like the Z6 because of the white dices and the lack of the stormies surge ability. AT least the MPL has a better and constant output and brings in impact and ion.

The conclussion grenades are great for stormies, but for rebels I prefer the impact grenades.

The laser RT's are today not very valuable, because of the lack of possible targets other than another RT's.

I think you are in the minority with your thoughts on the Z-6 vs. the MPL. They have the same average damage but the MPL eats up 2 actions after the first shot, so I would say it is significantly less consistent in damage.

Your second paragraph seems to contradict the 3rd. If you don't care about impact on the laser why have impact gernades?

19 hours ago, Terrorjedi said:

Hey guys,

I hope you could give me some feedback about my preliminary Rebels tournament list.

Idea is to use the AT-RTs in the center of the army. The AT-RTs shall give fire support esp. vs other AT-RTs or AT-STs. Laser cannons should do some work. They shall provide light cover to trooper units that follow them. The ion trooper shall be used in order to steal an activation from vehicles. The flanks shall be covered by Gatling guns, so Speeder bikes would melt pretty fast.

The rebel unit without any upgrades shall cover the objective which is supposed to be very close to my deploy,net zone. Hence, I don’t want to waste any ponits on a squad that only exists to hold an objective in the background.

What you think?

Most people prefer the rotary to the laser on the RTs. With only three dice it kind of feels like the laser isn't pulling it weight, but it I haven't seen rebels play against a list with a lot of armor.

Luke has an advantage in that he can be run without upgrades and still be affective. You're most likely only going to get one use out of those upgrades.

I like the naked rebel troopers. I don't think the effectiveness of naked core troops has been fully explored.

Over all it looks like you have a good setup and a plan on how to use it. If you can carry it out as you described you should do well.

1 hour ago, NukeMaster said:

I think you are in the minority with your thoughts on the Z-6 vs. the MPL. They have the same average damage but the MPL eats up 2 actions after the first shot, so I would say it is significantly less consistent in damage.

Your second paragraph seems to contradict the 3rd. If you don't care about impact on the laser why have impact gernades?

In the most cases are shootouts between troops are decided in the first or second round. Consistent fire means in this scenario against every target too. In the most cases you've got suppressed and it makes only a minimal difference if you rest and fire.

When you downgrade the RT's to rotary you need the impact grenades for the impact lack. The empire has many options but the rebels not.

2 minutes ago, TobiWan said:

In the most cases are shootouts between troops are decided in the first or second round. Consistent fire means in this scenario against every target too. In the most cases you've got suppressed and it makes only a minimal difference if you rest and fire.

When you downgrade the RT's to rotary you need the impact grenades for the impact lack. The empire has many options but the rebels not.

So doesn’t that sort of imply cannons are actually worth it then?

Personally, between AT-STs and RTs I think the cannons have a place.

I’m not entirely sure how any significant shooting is happening in your games on turn one but typically in my experience turn two sees the first serious attempts at engagement with turns three through five being the deciding turns.

1 hour ago, TobiWan said:

In the most cases are shootouts between troops are decided in the first or second round. Consistent fire means in this scenario against every target too. In the most cases you've got suppressed and it makes only a minimal difference if you rest and fire.

When you downgrade the RT's to rotary you need the impact grenades for the impact lack. The empire has many options but the rebels not.

You are probably making the same mistake that I made when I first started playing. You need more terrain.

The game rules indicate that 1/4 of the board should be covered with terrain. Once you make these changes, firefights won't start until turn 2.

1 hour ago, jbiondo said:

You are probably making the same mistake that I made when I first started playing. You need more terrain.

The game rules indicate that 1/4 of the board should be covered with terrain. Once you make these changes, firefights won't start until turn 2.

Sorry, I was referring the first and second round of contact, not the game round.

3 hours ago, Darkfine said:

So doesn’t that sort of imply cannons are actually worth it then?

Personally, between AT-STs and RTs I think the cannons have a place.

I’m not entirely sure how any significant shooting is happening in your games on turn one but typically in my experience turn two sees the first serious attempts at engagement with turns three through five being the deciding turns.

Sorry, I was referring the first and second round of contact, not the game round.

The problem with RT vs RT or ST is that you don't counter the enemy, you meet them at eye level (rt) or among them (st). The MPL and the speeder are the better alternatives in my opinion. For 174 points you get 2x6 troopers with MPL and impact grenades. They demolish a st very fast under the condition that you use the terrain against him (a must do for rebels) and every other unit has massive problems to defeat them when they are in a good position.

For 174 you may be got 2*6 mpl and impact grenades troops, but for only 6 more points, you get 12 hull points, range 4, more resilients models for total of 2red dices and 4 black, critical surge and impact 6 (at range 4). Plus at-rt are immune to suppression and give cover to your units...

If you need a heavy armor hunt, you need at-rt with lascan TBH. Other else, it may be to late for you...

2 at-rt shots every turn with aim (not the case of the ion which need to be readied), for stats of 2-3 wounds on the at-st per turn (I do not count the retool of the aim token on the base wounds, you are around 4-5 with eeroll) . You can begin it turn 1. Mpl will have to wait turn 2, put less damage stats. OK, they should put an ion token, but will not deals enough damage. And you need at least one damage.

MPL is not bad, but not as your only source of anti Armour damage (strike down a t-47 will be a heck of a trouble with only impact 1 at range 3..., not even speaking of an at-st on which they will put 2-3 hull points a turn with aim... Which is not the case every turn)

9 hours ago, RaevenKS said:

For 174 you may be got 2*6 mpl and impact grenades troops, but for only 6 more points, you get 12 hull points, range 4, more resilients models for total of 2red dices and 4 black, critical surge and impact 6 (at range 4). Plus at-rt are immune to suppression and give cover to your units...

If you need a heavy armor hunt, you need at-rt with lascan TBH. Other else, it may be to late for you...

2 at-rt shots every turn with aim (not the case of the ion which need to be readied), for stats of 2-3 wounds on the at-st per turn (I do not count the retool of the aim token on the base wounds, you are around 4-5 with eeroll) . You can begin it turn 1. Mpl will have to wait turn 2, put less damage stats. OK, they should put an ion token, but will not deals enough damage. And you need at least one damage.

MPL is not bad, but not as your only source of anti Armour damage (strike down a t-47 will be a heck of a trouble with only impact 1 at range 3..., not even speaking of an at-st on which they will put 2-3 hull points a turn with aim... Which is not the case every turn)

I dont think so. The RT's are the easier prey for an ST, if you play with enough terrain. For 180 Points you will get 2 units which in the most cases will not win against an ST. What you get for 180 points is 2 high specialist units (with a higher specialist unit on the other table side), which could be countered by nearly everything from the empire. ST's, HH12, Vader, even bikes. For 180 Points you will get 4 bikes with impact 4 and 12 dices and the speed to outmaneuver your walkers easily.

The ST has better weapons, nearly same hp and will not reduce his firepower after loosing 6 hp. Up to date the rebel troops are more designed to counter the imperial troops and choose the fights with their higher mobility then to fight on the same level.

By the way, operation meat shield with RT's will not work very fine against the imps, because they have too much long range impact firepower and the RT's hp are too low for this. Reb vs Reb maybe, but vs imps very bad idea. If you play this nevertheless the rotary is cheaper and will work fine against more enemies.

For the MPL impact Grenade troopers on the other side is no really counter unit then a rotary RT. I know it's nearly impossible, but you have impact 12 with this badasses when you get near enough. Infantry is much easier to hide in the terrain and when you have choose your activations wisely you can move up to speed 4 late in the round and attack early in the next. In terrain with many los blockers , they are the supremacy anti tank unit.

Thank you guys for all your feedback! Appreciate it!

the issue I have with rotary for RTs is its limited range in comparison with the Lascan.

however, what I like about the rotary is the amount of dice in connection with the RT‘s surge.

still, Rebels have to think more about moving and activating than Imps - imo. So using terrain is a must for any Rebel player. Maybe I’ll swap rotary for lascan. But I’m a bit concerned about the range disadvantage.

Amount of dice in connection with rt surge?

Stats wise you will roll (with both critics and surges) 1,25crit with rotary blaster. This weapon is not good to avoid either cover or dodge. Flamethrower is far better (and no, range 1 seems to clearly not be a problem with the way you want to play). 10 black dices on a 5 storm squads is around 4 dead after defense roll...

Again, I ask : in which case rotary blaster is better against Armour than lascan, and in which case it's better than a flamethrower against infantry?

32 minutes ago, RaevenKS said:

Amount of dice in connection with rt surge?

Stats wise you will roll (with both critics and surges) 1,25crit with rotary blaster. This weapon is not good to avoid either cover or dodge. Flamethrower is far better (and no, range 1 seems to clearly not be a problem with the way you want to play). 10 black dices on a 5 storm squads is around 4 dead after defense roll...

Again, I ask : in which case rotary blaster is better against Armour than lascan, and in which case it's better than a flamethrower against infantry?

My problem with this kind of argumentation is, that only the one think what could be perfectly countered will be used as the universal one example. The flame thrower perform very well against full troops, better then any other option, but very bad against vehicles , and heroes. In the most cases you must adapt your tactics by the tactics of your enemy and you have less moments where you can freely choose your targets according to your strengths.

That is by the way the key problem of the "is Luke better then Vader" discussion. Two units with nearly equal abilities and stats were compared in direct conflict, that Vader fulfill a complete different role for the empire than Luke for the rebellion is respected too little.

In your example you show of that a laser RT is very strong against vehicles compared with other configurations, and that the flame thrower is the best choice against infantry. But which configuration is the best all rounder? For me, the RT's role is to clean object zones, counter vader or hunt down tanks (not the direct conflict with tanks, outmaneuver and surround). So you can see, the spectrum of a RT is very situational and over specialization will not serve his key features (resistance against light fire, a comparatively small base and high maneuverable by expert climber).

That's not a real problem, I never think about on specific unit to judge powerlevel of another one.

In fact, you have, in your army, if you play well, loads of answer to the speederbikes. If the speederbikes target your Lascan AT-RT, I hope your AT-RT is in range of protection of some rebels troopers. This mean your rebels will down those speederbikes as easy as a rotary blaster will do. As you said, we are, the rebels, supposed to use the terrain to our advantages. Then I hope you do place your models where each units can protect each another from a threat they cannot deal with. Because even 4 speederbikes will never shutdown an AT-RT in one turn (stat wise). Ok, they will cripple it, but it's then 180points in something around 80-90. Not worth.

Never any of my lascan AT-RT will be left alone against 4 speederbikes without me having an answer of 2 or even 3 rebels squad to shut them down harshly. The same counts for Flamerthrowers AT-RT. Even if I freaking like Concussion grenade on rebels trooper, the AT-RT can more easely advances under lightfire and burns down the trenchdown stormtroopers.

All our army, as always in all wargames when people try to defend their points, is suppose to work together. It's ok to judge powerlevel of a unit just by reading it, but then you have to put it in situation against : Everything, What your force lack to manage (without this unit), Underpriority targets. That's why, until I playtest it enough, I will defend the Lascan, because IMO it open a larger part of strategy for us.

And because you are talking of it : There is almost no better choice in our arsenal than Luke to manage the speederbikes. He is fast, can double move and cut them in half in a blink.

And to answer your edit : A weapon that is 1/4 good against infantry, 1/4 good against commander, 1/4 good against armoured and 1/4 good against speederbikes will always be less good (IMO) in my strategy than a weapon that is 3/4 on infantry and 1/4 on speederbikes or 3/4 on armoured vehicles and 1/4 on character. Because being good at everything means dominates nothing, and then I do not the the difference of capability with rotary blaster and the equivalent of points I can put in in regular rebels trooper, which will have more dices, will still be beefy, and more activation. for 90pts, you can have 9 rebels, which is turn one 9 black dices. They will need 4 death total (which will not be that easy to get if you play well) to be "as good" as the AT-RT rotary blaster, and 5 in total to becoming less impactant on the game.

But still, maybe i'm completely drugs and wrong about it. Perhaps. But still, no one seems to want to try.

11 minutes ago, RaevenKS said:

That's not a real problem, I never think about on specific unit to judge powerlevel of another one.

In fact, you have, in your army, if you play well, loads of answer to the speederbikes. If the speederbikes target your Lascan AT-RT, I hope your AT-RT is in range of protection of some rebels troopers. This mean your rebels will down those speederbikes as easy as a rotary blaster will do. As you said, we are, the rebels, supposed to use the terrain to our advantages. Then I hope you do place your models where each units can protect each another from a threat they cannot deal with. Because even 4 speederbikes will never shutdown an AT-RT in one turn (stat wise). Ok, they will cripple it, but it's then 180points in something around 80-90. Not worth.

Never any of my lascan AT-RT will be left alone against 4 speederbikes without me having an answer of 2 or even 3 rebels squad to shut them down harshly. The same counts for Flamerthrowers AT-RT. Even if I freaking like Concussion grenade on rebels trooper, the AT-RT can more easely advances under lightfire and burns down the trenchdown stormtroopers.

All our army, as always in all wargames when people try to defend their points, is suppose to work together. It's ok to judge powerlevel of a unit just by reading it, but then you have to put it in situation against : Everything, What your force lack to manage (without this unit), Underpriority targets. That's why, until I playtest it enough, I will defend the Lascan, because IMO it open a larger part of strategy for us.

And because you are talking of it : There is almost no better choice in our arsenal than Luke to manage the speederbikes. He is fast, can double move and cut them in half in a blink.

And that´'s the point I talking about. You say you will never let a part of your troop be in a situation where a unit is not in cover of other units with other benefits. But the same do your opponent. RT with flamer? One HH12 and the ST and you will loose it rapidly before you have fired back one time. Luke cuts the bikes? Vader crushes the other side of the table, where by the way the moral is down, because Luke is at the flanks. Overspecialized units on rebel forces have the problem, that this is a thing where the empire is much better.