So with the tourny regs updated, it says if you destroy all non-flotilla ships, you earn 400 points. My question is if you meet this requirement, are the flotillas considered destroyed? If so, you can score MW points simply by tabling your opponent, which is a small nerf to MW.

My initial reading is this does not work because it does not say flotillas are destroyed, where as squadrons are explicitly stated to be destroyed under the same conditions.

As of right now, none of the updates have said this is the case. And in fact, now that I'm looking for it, I'm not seeing the reference that specified squadrons are destroyed in a tabling. I wonder if that was removed for clarity. Can't actually remember where it was, though--I'd thought it was in the TR, but I'm not seeing it.

It was only ever ASSUMED they were destroyed to award the 400.

Thats what caused the contention in CC basically.... wether or not thevtabling end due to no ships was death for squads.

Concession used to specifically state that ships and squadrons are destroyed.

3 minutes ago, svelok said:

Concession used to specifically state that ships and squadrons are destroyed.

Hmmm... this may be what I was thinking of. Could've sworn it was explicitly stated at one point, and I'd thought it was for tabling, but hey, I've been wrong before.

For all intents and purposes, squads are destroyed. It makes no difference because squads can't be hold objective tokens.

3 minutes ago, svelok said:

Concession used to specifically state that ships and squadrons are destroyed.

I think this changed. Otherwise if they are destroyed, you score 400 points on every concession.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

For all intents and purposes, squads are destroyed. It makes no difference because squads can't be hold objective tokens.

Hyperlane Raid.

So the way I see it, the key questions are:

1. When you get tabled, are all the surviving non-flotilla ships and squadrons treated as destroyed?
2. Does the winner score 400 points from the fleet, or do they just get the points from what they destroyed + the bid points?
3. Does the winner also get any objective points they've earnt (potentially taking them over 400 for their score - although capped at 400 for MOV)?

I'm pretty certain the answer to 3 is yes. The TRs say that to calculate score you get the fleet point value of destroyed stuff + objective points. So if the fleet point value is 400 (from tabling), you would still get the objective points as well.

On 2, this has always been played as the winner getting 400 points even though that isn't quite what the current rules say. The rules state that the "fleet is worth 400 fleet points" but that to calculate score you need the fleet point value of the destroyed parts of the fleet. Obviously this has already been an issue, with potentially 134 points difference; but now we're looking at a potential 240 point difference between the two options.

On 3, this... seems interesting. So far it has only mattered for CC (so not requiring the TRs) or with Hyperlane Raid (where up to 45 points would be on the line). Now we're probably still not looking at that many more points. But still interesting.

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On conceding, that used to count as tabling, with everything being destroyed. But now it was rounded down to a 140 MOV 8-3 or what you actually scored if higher. Which seems fair; an automatic tabling puts a lot of pressure against conceding.

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Personally, while it might be unnecessarily complicated and hard to implement, I'd like to see tabling as a choice; if either tabling condition is met the "winner" gets to choose between taking the win (scoring their current score + the opponent's bid) or playing on until another win condition is met - giving them the chance to hunt down more points (including potentially a lot of objective points from things like Fire Lanes or Sensor Net) but risking them losing points and potentially the game. I don't imagine it would come up often, but there may be a few situations where you wouldn't want to win by tabling - if you needed a big win and were guaranteed to get another turn or two of FL/SN tokens + a few more squadrons/flotillas.

I'm waiting for the bit where ffg spots the thread and goes "actually we Don't want flotillas to be MW objective ships anymore."

That's my guess for what will transpire, since flotillas are pretty much ships on name only now, also since ffg doesn't like giving players incentive to fly a ship directly away from the engagement straight from deployment.