3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

The problem with the ups is simply that it's too expensive for how quickly it crashes and burns. It's the same problem with the yv except the yv gets aux arcs to augment its effectiveness

The wookie really is the points standard for how these ships should be priced, even though the 3 health difference nowhere near compensates for not having reinforce. So the UPS could be at least 3-5 points cheaper

Alternatively, we can just get better system or (more pertenently) Large Ship Only tech since neither the ups nor res bomber are particularly setting the world on fire

Until then, the economical lambda or reaper will always be better points investments

About the only cool thing the UPS can do is "ridin' dirty kylo", which is a combination of collision detector, expert handling, and pattern analyzer. It's just funny as **** to roll kylo onto debris without consequence while seeing this giant model dance around like an Interceptor

Palpatine gets a ride to provide action independent modifiers (since we're too busy Expertly Handling) and also pops out crits for kylo. Now, Advanced Optics make it a tiny bit more legit with a threatening, fully modded 4-die alpha

It wasn't bad actually, pre Palp and x7 Nerf I ran it with Omega L and a delta. Nowadays, vcx Fenn will easily two round it

Some of the good Imp pilots in my area use them sometimes. Because they are really good at using the coordinate and such, you hardly never shoot at the Upsilon because you have some Ace in your face. But it is dead in the water if it gets to be the end game ship.

7 minutes ago, Dwing said:

Some of the good Imp pilots in my areal use them sometime, because they are really good at using the coordinate and such, you hardly never shoot at the Upsilon because you have some Ace in your face. But it is dead in the water if it gets to be the engang ship.

This is true. Typically, when I was practicing with my SKB Palp Aces list, if the opponent got me to just the Palp shuttle left, I conceded there, even if it was going to take a few turns for it to whittle it down with whatever he had left that was behind it.

Its one of the reasons why I'm not so worried about other's claims that, "it dies easily when focused." If someone is shooting three fully modded harpoons at the shuttle instead of my Aces, I'm happy. Turn 0, I already thought about what I wanted to trade the shuttle for, and its probably what was the biggest threat to my Aces. It is bait that they can't ignore if they don't want Palp + Coord boosting up the Aces. After its gone, they can mop up.

Thing is you can have that exact same dynamic with a lambda, difference being you get to splurge on your aces

The cost hike is pretty extreme

Part of the fun of ridin' dirty Ren, though, is that he's not down and out in the late game

46 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Thing is you can have that exact same dynamic with a lambda, difference being you get to splurge on your aces

The cost hike is pretty extreme

Part of the fun of ridin' dirty Ren, though, is that he's not down and out in the late game

Well, yeah. Its a 9 point difference between the SBP and OGP Palp shuttle. However, I already detailed why I find those points better spent on the shuttle than splurging on the aces in my first post in this thread.

Ridin Dirty Ren looks fun, but I'm not sure I'd go that route

Edit:

To expand on what I mean, spending those points on your Aces and going with a Lambda -class is not wrong in the slightest. For instance, my round 6 game (and second loss) in the CAC was against a Stress Ezra, Tactician Low, and Crimson Specialist, Capt. Yorr would have been a lifesaver and a better list in that match.

I just think that it is also an effective use of them to upgrade the shuttle to a more effective model for the previously mentioned reasons.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Thing is you can have that exact same dynamic with a lambda, difference being you get to splurge on your aces

The cost hike is pretty extreme

Part of the fun of ridin' dirty Ren, though, is that he's not down and out in the late game

Lambda is for Palp. Upsilon is not.

6 hours ago, kris40k said:

The list I ran (4-2) at the CAC this weekend was:

Starkiller Base Pilot (30)
Collision Detector (0)
Emperor Palpatine (8)

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
TIE/x1 (0)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 100

Vancouver?

1 minute ago, Sephlar said:

Vancouver?

Vancouver, WA. Yeah.

I think I was your Round 6 opponent. Sorry if I seemed brain dead by then. You were reading me like a book and dropping bombs like exactly where Vader would land on them. Awesome job.

has Anyone tried Stridan with youngster and a mini swarm?

I think a lot of people forget this has coordinate. I do agree its a bit overcosted.

I like Stridan w/ Fleet & Systems officers & Collision Detector for obvious reasons. I also like SKBP w/weapons engineer, FCS, and Targeting Synchroniser.

Some fun lists below but first I just have to say that this was one of the ships I was most excited about getting because it looks so cool. Unfortunately 4 Attack put the cost through the roof when in reality it isn’t getting many more attacks than the Lambda.

The Upsilon is a support ship that costs too much and doesn’t have very strong support abilities (Striden being the exception).

Someone suggested that neither the Upsilon or the Resistance Bomber is setting the world on fire. That may be true but Crimslm Specialist is at least in a tier 1.5 squad and a 2 Dice PWT is not to be sneezed at. At 5pts less the base Resistance Bomber would run rings around a Starkiller Base Pilot and it wouldn’t be close.

While not thematic this ship probably needed to be a 2 Dice turret at 25-26pts to be relevant.

But it can be saved.

Cheap Imperial Crew would go a long way. Hux and Krennic are too expensive for the Upsilon but look at the scores of Rebel and Scum 1-2pt crew that are basically ridiculous.

Tech.

Discardible tech that flips the ship when you stop. So like Pivot Wing but without the telegraph.

A reinforce or regen based tech for large ships only.

A tech that functions like Contrand Cybernetics.

A title that discounts all Tech and Crew.

A title that functions in reverse to First Order Vanguard - before you reveal your Maneuver dial each friendly ship in your front arc may take a free action - or it could just be a free token assign. Essentially it needs to be given support tools to help your whole team in the early fight.

But now some lists I’ve flown or seen flown.

40pt Striden - Systems Officer, Pattern Analyser, Title, FCS

Vader - Adaptability, X1, ATC, Engine

Duchess - Ailerons, VI, Frame.

I took this to hanger bay and won both games with it when I choose it. Obviously in hanger bay you can hide it from turret lists. If Turrets go away there might be something there. Definitely on the fun side and this was way back in Wave 10 too.

Starkiller Base Pilot - Intel Agent, Pattern Analyser

Deathrain - UG Rockets, Bomblet, Frame, Tragedy Stimulator

Inquistor - Title, PTL, Thrusters

Nothing quite like Coordinate Boost onto D-Train. With the boost and free roll off Bomblet you can outflank really easily and then launch Bomblets into the fray. It’s definitely the most wholesome tragedy Bomblet squad and only on the funsy list side of things.

Dormitz - Hyperwave x2

Quickdraw - Title, Chips, Criuse, Hyperwave

Backdraft - Title, Chips, Cruise, Hyperwave, VI

This isn’t my squad so I don’t know full particulars. I think one of the SFs might have FCS and I think it’s Backdraft. Tailor to taste I guess. This was pre Optics and pre Harpoons, though I really think Cruise is the way to go here. Essentially deploy at 12 across from your opponents and Zoom forward. It’s really hard to avoid he Alpha and with focus, focus, Evade on each of the SFs not a lot you will do to them in return. It definitely only has one trick but it’s a pretty fun one.

I ve used it twice in local tournaments and placed second twice with it. Would have been first if only I did not do a stupid mistake I love that ship!

I usually fly Kylo with whisper:

"Whisper" (TIE Phantom) + Gunner + Advanced Sensors + Advanced Cloaking Device + Intensity
Kylo Ren (Upsilon-class Shuttle) + Daredevil + Reinforced Deflectors + Emperor Palpatine + Pattern Analyzer + Engine Upgrade

or swarm leader Kylo

Darth Vader (TIE Advanced) + Juke + Advanced Targeting Computer + TIE/x1
The Inquisitor (TIE Adv. Prototype) + Juke + Tie/v1
Kylo Ren (Upsilon-class Shuttle) + Swarm Leader + Pattern Analyzer + Collision Detector

These lists were before advanced upticks so I am planning to use it with AO in one of the cumming tournaments.
Probably alongside whisper or quickdraw:

"Whisper" (TIE Phantom) + Agent Kallus + Advanced Sensors + Advanced Cloaking Device + Intensity
Kylo Ren — Upsilon-class Shuttle + Daredevil + Reinforced Deflectors + Emperor Palpatine + Advanced Optics + Pattern Analyzer + Engine Upgrade

or

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf + Push the Limit + Fire-Control System + Harpoon Missiles + Advanced Optics + Lightweight Frame + Special Ops Training
Kylo Ren — Upsilon-class Shuttle + Daredevil + Reinforced Deflectors + Emperor Palpatine + Advanced Optics + Pattern Analyzer + Engine Upgrade + Title

9 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

The problem with the ups is simply that it's too expensive for how quickly it crashes and burns. It's the same problem with the yv except the yv gets aux arcs to augment its effectiveness

The wookie really is the points standard for how these ships should be priced, even though the 3 health difference nowhere near compensates for not having reinforce. So the UPS could be at least 3-5 points cheaper

Alternatively, we can just get better system or (more pertenently) Large Ship Only tech since neither the ups nor res bomber are particularly setting the world on fire

Until then, the economical lambda or reaper will always be better points investments

About the only cool thing the UPS can do is "ridin' dirty kylo", which is a combination of collision detector, expert handling, and pattern analyzer. It's just funny as **** to roll kylo onto debris without consequence while seeing this giant model dance around like an Interceptor

Palpatine gets a ride to provide action independent modifiers (since we're too busy Expertly Handling) and also pops out crits for kylo. Now, Advanced Optics make it a tiny bit more legit with a threatening, fully modded 4-die alpha

It wasn't bad actually, pre Palp and x7 Nerf I ran it with Omega L and a delta. Nowadays, vcx Fenn will easily two round it

Let's compare it with the VCX

Hera , PS 7, 40 points VS Kylo , PS6, 34 points

There is a difference in PS, but Kylo has an EPT, something which Hera lacks. I consider these two to be equivalent, and as such, will leave it out from further analysis.

Dial: Very similar dial, The VCX has a white 4 speed straight, and a speed 5 Kturn, while the Upsillon has a stop maneuver. Given the arc and turrets situation, the reverse would be more fair, BUT, the VCX is supposed to be more agile for some strange reason. And it's more expensive... Let's say, the dial is 2-3 pts better?

Stats: 4,0,10,6 VS 4,1,6,6. The same attack value is deceptive, with the VCX having the option to increase the arc, but that costs extra, so we leave it out. 1 Agility, while provides a marginal advantage, it is very unrealiable and is usually not worth saving the focus for. I think that along with the Evade action, the +4 additional hull more than makes up for the the defensive capabilities of the 1 agility. I consider the stats of the VCX to be also better, Maybe by another 4 points?

Actions: Both ships have access to 3 actions, and I would consider them "mathematically" equal in that regard, but the VCX's evade action just proves to be more useful. Not to mention, the VCX has the option to gain a free coordinate action, in a VERY advantageous time slot, regardless of PS. Again, it costs extra, but it is a possibility nonetheless. All together, I would consider the actions equal, with a non-numeric advantage to the VCX, especially when consider more than just the mere statistics.

Upgrade slots: As I said before, the EPT slot is worth 1 point, and so does 1 extra PS, so I will not count Kylo's EPT. With that out of the way, let's star with the things the ships share. 2 crew and a system slot. The VCX has then 2 torpedo slots, and 1 Turret slot, while the Upsilon has 2 Tech slots. Now, two torp slots are suboptimal at best, and garbage at worst, but it can take Sabine to get bombs, to get extra munitions... but Yeah.. it's not the best. The turret slot, however, is easily the best slot in the game by the numbers. 2 tech slots are great, and as time goes in, it's gonna be better (hopefully). The question is... are two tech slots better than a turret slot? I think no.. Not on the Upsillon. When considering all of the upgrade synergies, we only have to look at the top of any tournament. It's clear that the rebels have access to craaazy combinations that multiply the effectiveness of this ship. But even removed from this equation, there are very few ships on which I'd take 2 tech slots over a turret slot, so all things considered, the VCX beats the Upsilon here as well. Maybe 1-2 points worth of benefits.

Titles: The Upsilon title costs 2 points, and it is an excellent title, but the Ghost is effectively a 20pts+ title, so it's really unfair to compare the two... Maybe I would say that the Ghost provides yet more synergy and the ability to create a point sink.

So we have two ships, with 6 pts difference in price, but easily 7-9 points difference in capabilities. And it shows. The Upsilon is on the bottom of the tier list, the VCX is on the top.


It's just curious to see how often they err on the side of the rebels.

eh, it seems more a design by a lot of disparate committees

I'm often reminded of the difference in quality between Heroes of the Resistance and Imperial Veterans when they first launched. Heroes had Poe (again) and Rey...yeah, that's about it. The T-70 and yt-1300 still largely suck.

Meanwhile, Veterans made basically every Defender pilot viable (apart from Onyx since PS 3 isn't super important)

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

i've seen this squad used scarily effectively, actually. You've also got enough points to hand each of them either Fire Control system or Pattern Analyser or Advanced Optics.

Stridan can be good as a support ship - with Hux and System Officer it can spew tokens with gay abandon, whilst Stridan with the title and Death Troopers should be good at drawing fire and spewing stress.

This. The triple Upsilon list is fun and amusing, and with a skilled pilot, actually quite scary.

Dormitz+Hyperwave+FCS
2x Starkiller+Hyperwave+FCS

3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

eh, it seems more a design by a lot of disparate committees

I'm often reminded of the difference in quality between Heroes of the Resistance and Imperial Veterans when they first launched. Heroes had Poe (again) and Rey...yeah, that's about it. The T-70 and yt-1300 still largely suck.

Meanwhile, Veterans made basically every Defender pilot viable (apart from Onyx since PS 3 isn't super important)

This is one of the wrongest things I've read. Heroes had: Poe, Rey, Jess, Snap Shot, Ops Specialist, Pattern Analyser, Primed Thrusters, Hotshot Copilot, M9-G8, Rey crew, Finn crew, Smuggling Compartment... for sheer depth of new good/interesting/playable cards it's probably the best expansion ever released.

Veterans had: Ryad, TIE/x7, TIE/D, Deathfire, Tomax Bren and TIE Shuttle. It was an incredibly narrow box and maybe only Long Range Scanners was an interesting card in there.

2 hours ago, Eisai said:

This. The triple Upsilon list is fun and amusing, and with a skilled pilot, actually quite scary.

Dormitz+Hyperwave+FCS
2x Starkiller+Hyperwave+FCS

If you like it, I strongly consider trying some other upgrades to Fire Control System instead:

• Fire Control System is the easy and obvious choice for a ship with a system slot and 2 points to burn, but not the only option
  • It provides a target lock on the second and subsequent shots on the same target.
  • With three ships with 4-dice primary weapons, if you require multiple turns of fire to kill a target (barring a VCX-100 or something), I humbly suggest you're doing it wrong.
  • Without a Koiogran Turn, Talon Roll or Segnor's Loop, it can often be hard to keep your nose pointed at the same target turn after turn. Since you have a stop, and (unlike the Lambda) you actually have a white turn, it's often not hard to get a shot on someone , but you tend to have to take whatever shot you can get, rather than chase a single target reliably.
• Pattern Analyser lets you get actions on red moves - unlocking the speed 1 turn, speed 3 bank and stop. More importantly, if (as is not unlikely) one ship isn't going to get a shot, you can pull a red move (to get back in the fight faster) and then use co-ordinate to 'concentrate' both a focus and target lock on whatever target is available on a different ship which is going to get a shot.
• There are quite a few stress-causing tricks. Tacticans are 2 points - one is so-so but three gives you a lot of the board covered in auto-stressing zones of fire. Kylo Ren's Shuttle is a nice tool for 2 points, whilst 4 points lets you upgrade to Major Stridan with Death Troopers. Stressing someone out and locking them to the white and green bits of their dial means the shuttles are no longer so unmanouvrable by comparison.

Stridan/ Hux/ Systems Officer is a mainstay in my First Order themed squads.

This ship hands out flexibility like a fascist Santa Claus with a shotgun strapped to his ears.

5 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

eh, it seems more a design by a lot of disparate committees

I'm often reminded of the difference in quality between Heroes of the Resistance and Imperial Veterans when they first launched. Heroes had Poe (again) and Rey...yeah, that's about it. The T-70 and yt-1300 still largely suck.

While I'll admit that PS9 Poe, Rey (and Jess Pava) are probably the best pilots Heroes of the Resistance gave us, it also gave us...

• M9-G8
• Black One
• Primed Thrusters
• Pattern Analyser
• (more) Integrated Astromech
• Smuggling Compartment
• Hotshot Co-Pilot
• Burnout SLAM
• Snap Shot and
• Trick Shot

...all of which see regular use and most of which can help out myriad ships other than just the T-70 and Falcon. The **** did Imperial Veterans give the game in general, other than Long Range Scanners?

Personally, I'd love to love the Upsilon, and I tried for the longest time to get Oicunn/Kylo to work (key trick: use Bo Shek to allow Kylo to double-stop, thus preventing ships staying behind him so easily - but this is fortressing and dumb and bad) but it's just too expensive for the one or two shots it'll contribute before things are behind it and it inevitably explodes.

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've lost to a squad with an Upsilon in it, and those times were because I was stupid and jousted it.

Something I'd love to see:

Title, Combat Drop Loadout, 0 points, large ship only, must have crew slot.

After you execute a red [stop] manoeuvre, you may turn your base 90 degrees.

You may equip one additional title upgrade card.

(Or define a new manoeuvre that does the same thing, as this owuld need a rules card to explain how, which for me would be 'put a 2 straight on the side of the base, rotate, align' - you get a little bit of shuffle from the nubs, but it's all good)

This would help every single shuttle so much. It might be a bit overpowering on the YV, but I doubt it - it's not like the YV's been tearing up the meta since the Zuckuss nerf - and even then, it wasn't outstanding.

37 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

...all of which see regular use and most of which can help out myriad ships other than just the T-70 and Falcon. The **** did Imperial Veterans give the game in general, other than Long Range Scanners?

Another copy of Crack Shot?

5 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

While I'll admit that PS9 Poe, Rey (and Jess Pava) are probably the best pilots Heroes of the Resistance gave us, it also gave us...

• M9-G8
• Black One
• Primed Thrusters
• Pattern Analyser
• (more) Integrated Astromech
• Smuggling Compartment
• Hotshot Co-Pilot
• Burnout SLAM
• Snap Shot and
• Trick Shot

...all of which see regular use and most of which can help out myriad ships other than just the T-70 and Falcon. The **** did Imperial Veterans give the game in general, other than Long Range Scanners?

I was responding specifically to a comparison of the upsilon to the vcx as an example of "rebel bias" as the vcx seemed far superior

so speaking in terms of "rebel bias" only m9-g8, rey (crew), and black one (+poe + rey) really qualify. everything else is neutral and can be used in every faction and the aforementioned upgrades (other than blackone poe) really didn't nor don't affect the meta like x7s did, as much as I think they're all really good. I mean there's stuff like Smuggling and Finn, but **** if those aren't so situational that I barely see them in the slightest outside of Fenn's one true place with Rey

Imp vets gave use a bunch of awesome x7 pilots that were the cutting edge of the meta until they got errated, while the T-70 remained pretty bad apart from its one pilot (maybe jess) and the yt-1300 became Rey + finn + kanan only

which makes me think of FFG less as biased and more as they've got a bunch of different committees designing expacs with vastly different ideas about what is "good". While the TIE Defender fix made just about every pilot top-tier competitive, the YT-1300 and T-70 "fix" did nothing other than make one pilot of each viable (of which "Poe" had already been viable before his 1 PS markup)

context.

6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

If you like it, I strongly consider trying some other upgrades to Fire Control System instead:

• Fire Control System is the easy and obvious choice for a ship with a system slot and 2 points to burn, but not the only option
  • It provides a target lock on the second and subsequent shots on the same target.
  • With three ships with 4-dice primary weapons, if you require multiple turns of fire to kill a target (barring a VCX-100 or something), I humbly suggest you're doing it wrong.
  • Without a Koiogran Turn, Talon Roll or Segnor's Loop, it can often be hard to keep your nose pointed at the same target turn after turn. Since you have a stop, and (unlike the Lambda) you actually have a white turn, it's often not hard to get a shot on someone , but you tend to have to take whatever shot you can get, rather than chase a single target reliably.
• Pattern Analyser lets you get actions on red moves - unlocking the speed 1 turn, speed 3 bank and stop. More importantly, if (as is not unlikely) one ship isn't going to get a shot, you can pull a red move (to get back in the fight faster) and then use co-ordinate to 'concentrate' both a focus and target lock on whatever target is available on a different ship which is going to get a shot.
• There are quite a few stress-causing tricks. Tacticans are 2 points - one is so-so but three gives you a lot of the board covered in auto-stressing zones of fire. Kylo Ren's Shuttle is a nice tool for 2 points, whilst 4 points lets you upgrade to Major Stridan with Death Troopers. Stressing someone out and locking them to the white and green bits of their dial means the shuttles are no longer so unmanouvrable by comparison.

I think I'll definitely have to try the Pattern Analyzer version. Never really thought about it before, since FCS is just such an obvious go-to. Also need a third one, stupid upgrades that still only come in one expansion that I only need one of.

6 hours ago, DampfGecko said:

Stridan/ Hux/ Systems Officer is a mainstay in my First Order themed squads.

This ship hands out flexibility like a fascist Santa Claus with a shotgun strapped to his ears.

When I finally got around to using my Wave X ships last year, I paired Stridan (Hux/Systems Officer/Advanced Sensors) with three PS1 Strikers. Those things are non-trivial to take down when they have both focus and evade tokens.

11 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

It's just curious to see how often they err on the side of the rebels.

Yeah, funny how that works.

The idea that FFG R&D team is competent enough that they could successfully implement a policy of favouring one faction over the others is hilarious.

11 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

The idea that FFG R&D team is competent enough that they could successfully implement a policy of favouring one faction over the others is hilarious.

Well, for whatever reason, incompetence or bias, they keep doing it. And it keeps happening to the same faction.

You say it is hilarious to think so that faction bias exists. I say it is hilarious to think that the Punisher or the K-wing were ever meant to be similarly powerful. Everyone immediately knew which was the better ship.

I say making a mistake THAT big is too much of a coincidence.