So, back when I played Armada I attended an OP event. It was well run, everyone got along and in general had a good time.

Well turns out at the end of it I was the only undefeated player that day. I came in second, only undefeated player. My dice were not hot that day and I had to play to the mission hard every game barely getting a win in all three.

The guy who won the event was 2-1, he lost a game, did well in one and had a friend of his basically hand him max points for another.

So I’m curious, are wins going to matter here or will it still come down to mission points above all?

That alone kind of killed my interest in Armada, really dig FFG and Star Wars Andy would love to be able to get into one of their games.

Official FFG tournaments won’t be run that way. OP kits are able to be distributed however the LGS plans to, but I’ve only seen outcomes like that happen very few times.

Armada uses a margin of victory based system because the games are way too long to just go off of win/loss, since you're looking at 3 or maybe 4 rounds tops in a day. So, two massive wins and a minor loss (say 10, 9, 5) beats something like 3 minor wins (say 6, 7, 6). Since players are paired by score, that's fair - the people who win 10 points in round one face off against each other on the top tables, so the player with the most points will have played against the toughest opponents. It's a good system and it does a good job of filtering the best players to the top (especially if you can get in 4 rounds rather than 3.)

That said, we won't know Legion's rules until they come out later this month, but it will almost certainly do something similar. W/L only works if you have a short enough play-time to get in lots of rounds, doing W/L in Legion or Armada would mean the outcome is heavily based on getting lucky - half the players will win their first game, but if there's a big difference between the best and worst player in that half, W/L won't show it.

Most likely, Legion will use a scenario system like Runewars' - every table playing the same 3 setup cards, changing every round - in which case objective points would be the most likely system of scoring.

2 hours ago, svelok said:

Most likely, Legion will use a scenario system like Runewars' - every table playing the same 3 setup cards, changing every round - in which case objective points would be the most likely system of scoring.

Just curious as I have very little familiarity with Runewars: does it have a mechanic similar to Legion where the players build the scenario together? Or is it completely random? I feel that it removes an important (and fun!) tactical element to randomize the setup in Legion.

Runewars does have a "Turn 0" similar to Legion. The difference is that there are only 2 categories of cards, Objective and Deployment.

Runewars OP rules are updated each season (3 months) and specify which 3 Objective and 3 Deployment cards are valid for OP that season for a tournament. The TO is supposed to randomly draw one card from each type for each round, then all participants play with that Objective+Deployment that round. Keeps it far for everyone, really, and minimizes a potentially time consuming step of setup.

With their seasonal Kits, there are three sets of alt-art Objective & Deployment cards and the kit specifies which set to use for each month of the season, with the alt-art cards being part of the prizes for participants.

From what information we have about the Legion Recruitment kit it is a partial Ground Assault (seasonal) kit that support 2 months of organized play instead of 3. It also sounds like there will be 4 scenarios (Objective+Condition+Deployment (OCD)) that are linked for each month of play and they can be run as either a League, One-Day Event (not necessarily tournament), or a Rivals League.

Legion Recruitment Kit - https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/3/12/recruit-your-legions/

Legion OP Page - https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/swlegion/

Thanks for that. The pre-built scenarios are interesting as part of a campaign.

I hope they come up with something creative for tournaments. I understand that having a random scenario per round normalizes VPs, so it may be the best method.

20 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

Thanks for that. The pre-built scenarios are interesting as part of a campaign.

I hope they come up with something creative for tournaments. I understand that having a random scenario per round normalizes VPs, so it may be the best method.

Just to make a point, in none of their preview articles or interviews have I heard or seen any mention of "tournaments". It has all been leagues or events pertaining to the Recruitment and Ground Assault kits.

There has been some reference to "Rally Point Events" that are a replacement for Store Championships and will require LGSes to apply to host them, much like Regionals in the past, with venue size being at least one of the determining factors. This is supposed to be the first level of the Championship Events listed on the OP page.

18 hours ago, NeonWolf said:

Just to make a point, in none of their preview articles or interviews have I heard or seen any mention of "tournaments". It has all been leagues or events pertaining to the Recruitment and Ground Assault kits.

There has been some reference to "Rally Point Events" that are a replacement for Store Championships

I agree and think Legion will be run differently from other FFG competitive games. It seems this game will be built around the in store assault kit model.

Of course there will still be competitive play beginning at the rally point (regional) level, with a path to a World Championship.

This will effectively demarcate the experience between fun, hobby gaming (with real incentives for participating like cards and tokens) and high-level tournaments. I think this is brilliant for many reasons.

1) Legion is a cumbersome game to fit into a tournament format. Doesn't mean it won't be done, but your FLGS won't be pressured to make it a quarterly or annual requirement. The kits encourage regular competitive play without the restrictive tourney format.

2) it lets players embrace the hobby. Swap your bases, make interesting terrain, mod your minis etc--no one should care about any of that at the Ground Assault kit level. The Tournament rules we've been waiting on may not come out for months if they only apply to Rally point events and up.

3) it creates a more relaxed atmosphere. Many first time wargamers or TT gamers may be intimidated by the idea of super serious, no-passes-given opponents being the norm at the FLGS. While I think this is rarely the case anyway, this format reinforces that. A missed action here or a LoS dispute there doesn't have someone's berth to a higher tournament riding on it.

4) for anyone craving to measure themselves against the best, that option is still there in the Rally point events and beyond.

Even though we don't have the full Tournament Regs yet both of the Recruitment Operations state that any events from the Recruitment or Ground Assault kits are to be run at the "Relaxed tier". The quote below is from the X-Wing Tournament Regulations so I would expect it to be similar, if not identical, in the Legion Tournament Regs when they are released.

Quote

Relaxed

Tournaments at this level are welcoming to all players, regardless of experience level. Players are

encouraged to help each other improve and learn, so long as it does not significantly disrupt the

game. The focus is on creating a fun and friendly environment. The Relaxed Tier is used for

Store Championship events.

Yeah I don't really get the all or nothing attitude here. You can come to play and win and still have a good fun time all around. I mean, this is a heads up game no?

I played a tournament last week where pretty much everyone was asking questions and it was a loose casual affair but people still played to win. I mean, this isn't D&D here, the rules kind of demand a winner and loser. All I am talking about is the obtuse counter intuitive way it goes about it.

16 hours ago, Darkfine said:

Yeah I don't really get the all or nothing attitude here. You can come to play and win and still have a good fun time all around. I mean, this is a heads up game no?

I played a tournament last week where pretty much everyone was asking questions and it was a loose casual affair but people still played to win. I mean, this isn't D&D here, the rules kind of demand a winner and loser. All I am talking about is the obtuse counter intuitive way it goes about it.

I don't see an all or nothing attitude in these comments. I believe there will be less emphasis on "tournaments" though in organized play, and that's what people are referring to. I do realize many "learn to play" events were structured more as tourneys, but there doesn't seem to be much to indicate those will be the norm below the Rally Point Championship (regional) level.

But specifically to your question, we don't know yet. If there are relaxed tourneys, I imagine the TO will determine the tiebreakers and it would vary from location to location--it may be worth expressing this concern to them in advance or between tourneys. As for the premier events, a lot of people are sour on the Strength of Schedule tiebreaker, so FFG may take that into consideration for those.

Armada has a sort of hybrid points destroyed/objective system that sounds like it led to the abuse you experienced. Legion uses points destroyed only as a tiebreaker, so in your scenario you would have remained top.