27 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

It was definitely a what if post, and sorry to add to the endless complaints about Rebel Defensive Turrets. I know your not a fan of all the "alternate" universe analysis and I get why.

But take the very best couple cards from Rebels...and you take away the cut basically. I genuinely dont know what they would have left to build around.

I ain't mad at ya, I just think it's impossible to see what would come out of "what if" scenarios and don't know if I see the value of pursuing them outside of boredom.

I've actually been doing pretty good at ignoring them. If you have fun speculating on that stuff, I don't intend to screw around with the thread. I just get triggered occasionally when I see the same complaints over and over. I mean...yeah, we get it. Some stuff is kinda broken. WE GET IT.

Oh, forgot...and what would be left to build around? Probably a LOT of Dash. At least until Saw drops...?

2 hours ago, gennataos said:

I'll happily give all of that up, including TLT, bombs and any form of regen if Imperials give up QD and Kylo crew and Scum gives up Asajj....you know, the traditional starting points for those factions.

I can understand Kylo crew, for sure. Kylo crew has very little counterplay, and basically just craps all over 2 ship lists to such and extent that it's highly NPE. I disagree on QD though, she may be the only thing propping up the Imperial faction right now, but at least she has counterplay. At most, she gets 3 activations of her ability, at least 1, and other than that her only strength is her PS at 9. She is nowhere, not even close, not even in the same dimension/timeline as crap like Miranda, Fennipede, Wookies, or Nym. Miranda especially is an abomination that should never have existed, and I highly suspect she was designed by the same dullard who designed the original JM5K.

3 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I can understand Kylo crew, for sure. Kylo crew has very little counterplay, and basically just craps all over 2 ship lists to such and extent that it's highly NPE. I disagree on QD though, she may be the only thing propping up the Imperial faction right now, but at least she has counterplay. At most, she gets 3 activations of her ability, at least 1, and other than that her only strength is her PS at 9. She is nowhere, not even close, not even in the same dimension/timeline as crap like Miranda, Fennipede, Wookies, or Nym. Miranda especially is an abomination that should never have existed, and I highly suspect she was designed by the same dullard who designed the original JM5K.

I wasn't comparing. I'm just tired of every Imperial list I play against having Kylo crew and/or QD.

Tired isn't the right word. Bored?

No matter what you change, or what gets removed we will be left with one constant.

This forum and roughly the same group of people complaining about something. If all we had was tie/ln and T-65's this forum would still be a giant steaming pile of complaints.

29 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I wasn't comparing. I'm just tired of every Imperial list I play against having Kylo crew and/or QD.

Tired isn't the right word. Bored?

I can agree there. I only play Imperial and I'm sure-as-**** bored of QD. But she's our only S Tier ship, so she's in every list.

5 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I can agree there. I only play Imperial and I'm sure-as-**** bored of QD. But she's our only S Tier ship, so she's in every list.

I only play Rebels, and I'd much rather be zooming around with X-Wings and A-Wings. I do, actually, which is fine locally. The Rebel stuff people hate actually hunts the Rebel stuff I want to fly better than the other factions.

On a side note, people bemoan the BB-8 Poe I play more than anything else I run.

14 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I can agree there. I only play Imperial and I'm sure-as-**** bored of QD. But she's our only S Tier ship, so she's in every list.

All things being equal, backdraft puts out more damage then quickdraw for me.

maybe your problem is you are close minded to only operate in the sphere of group think. you are "board" of flying QD yet for some reason apparently you just keep flying her because you are to close minded to look at other ships? so ya of course she is the best for you since that's what all your practice is with.

I think there's a great deal of validity to people being complacent in what they consider to be "good" and just sticking with it. I know I've done it. Now I just stick with what I consider "fun" with an effort to make it "good". There's way less gnashing of teeth that way.

I have lots of hope that 4-5 X-Wings will be the new rebel powerhouse list

2 hours ago, gennataos said:

That's another "what if" scenario. If you dump all the stuff in the OP post, then who know what the meta would look like?

Right, but it’s the reverse what if. QD isn’t pushing anything out in the sameness way those ships are.

27 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Maybe your problem is you are close minded to only operate in the sphere of group think. you are "board" of flying QD yet for some reason apparently you just keep flying her because you are to close minded to look at other ships? so ya of course she is the best for you since that's what all your practice is with.

Regardless of my 'closed-mindedness', QD is in EVERY Imperial list that's been doing well competitively. There is not a single competitive list for Imperials that doesn't include QD. Her omnipresence isn't just my 'closed-mindedness' it's a near universal sad fact. QD IS the Imperial Faction.

23 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

I have lots of hope that 4-5 X-Wings will be the new rebel powerhouse list

I have always wanted 4-5 TIE Interceptors to be the Imp powerhouse list. I'd also love a list of E-Wings or A-Wings as top tier.....

16 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Regardless of my 'closed-mindedness', QD is in EVERY Imperial list that's been doing well competitively. There is not a single competitive list for Imperials that doesn't include QD. Her omnipresence isn't just my 'closed-mindedness' it's a near universal sad fact. QD IS the Imperial Faction.

Not arguing that (she was in my regional list). I am saying that you playing her so much that you are board of it is on you. Play something else... you wont learn if there are other ships that are good for you if you only play the group think determined best ships. You are literally the problem that you are complaining about, people that are so stuck on the "best" they cant move to anything else to others and their own detriment.

20 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Regardless of my 'closed-mindedness', QD is in EVERY Imperial list that's been doing well competitively. There is not a single competitive list for Imperials that doesn't include QD. Her omnipresence isn't just my 'closed-mindedness' it's a near universal sad fact. QD IS the Imperial Faction.

Not quite "Every." There is one archetype in the top 20 that doesn't include her and that's Kylo+Rhos, which has done well at some regionals and I think would probably be the go-to and seen a bit more if there was no QD. But, generally, you are correct outside of that, and without QD rebels would be in all of the top spots I think.

Personally believe the gap between QD and the rest of the faction isn't as wide as Miranda/Fenn/low/vcx and...the rest of the game?

QD currently represents your best bet against fat turrets since she's the highest ps, highest offense you have available. But she does not have anywhere near the staying power of fat turrets, Regen, or even imperial autothrusters

She also isn't a turret

Not to take away from how good she is, but perspective is necessary.

6 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Yeah, bombs are a good way to help turrets combat jousters...

But when said turret is a Regen monster with better jousting than most jousters...ya dun goofed

um... turrets already out-joust jousters... why do you think they need bombs?

1 hour ago, AlexW said:

Not quite "Every." There is one archetype in the top 20 that doesn't include her and that's Kylo+Rhos, which has done well at some regionals and I think would probably be the go-to and seen a bit more if there was no QD. But, generally, you are correct outside of that, and without QD rebels would be in all of the top spots I think.

Deadeye Rho boats get pretty well offensively shutout by Hotcop Fenn, get doughnuted by the PS 11 boost, and at exactly 8 hp are typically taken out by 2 turns of TLT fire. So Ghost/Fenn is a huge part of what's keeping this list down. If TLT and/or the the Phantom title get an adjustment then I think you'll see this list come back hard as other Fenn lists don't run Hotcop due a lack of sensor jammer synergy. It's got a good alpha strike, excellent maneuverability, and 47 pt Kylo is one of the better closers in the game. It's just basically hard countered by one of the most prevalent meta lists out there at the moment.

I feel like you'd have the same results with the other 2 factions with the same thought experiment of banning the top 6 pilots from each faction.

they murdered scum though errata by poor playtesting and are out to ensure every other faction rules for the next 2 years minimum.

Yeah I said it. The utter stupidity of adherance to canon (Jumpmaster boogeyman easily beaten by generic ordnance but THASS NO FUN TO FLY THEY ARE BROKE JUST NERF THEM CAUSE I WANNA PLAY OTHER OP LARGE SHIPS yup welcome to the machine)

6 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

um... turrets already out-joust jousters... why do you think they need bombs?

I literally said that said design is goof

Turrets being turrets should already make them worse jousters. That needs to be addressed by ffg pronto

Them having bombs would be a good strategic counterplay to jousters, hence why the K and SCURRG and even Deci have them

Problem is again they're already better at jousting than most jousters.

So Rebels ONLY have:

Nym
Miranda
Ghost
Fenn
Poe
Rey
Dash
That disgusting walking carpet
...


That's more than what the other factions have. What do you mean "only"?

What do Scum and Imperials have that level?

QD, Kylo crew, Vader maybe... Possibly Gunboats.

Assaj, Fenn, Dengar... Ketsu? Bumpmasters are still good.

Are rebels good? Yes. They are the best. And mostly, have always been. They have the most options, with the most powerful combinations. Sabine, Ezra+Maul, but even C3PO, Kaanan...


And even if you don't want to play these ships. Han is still decent. T70 pilots are fun. ARC is one of the BEST ship in the game in terms of balance, fun and design.


...

Are rebels good? I'd give my left leg if all three factions had this many competitive ships.

Just my 2c.

23 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I literally said that said design is goof

Turrets being turrets should already make them worse jousters. That needs to be addressed by ffg pronto

Them having bombs would be a good strategic counterplay to jousters, hence why the K and SCURRG and even Deci have them

Problem is again they're already better at jousting than most jousters.

I really thing a target lock requirement to fire out of arc is required. As we have seen in the movies, it takes some effort from the gunner to attack a ship. It shouldn't be just a free "attack anywhere"... Then you would have to put some actions and attention to your turret. It would still be a benefit, but there would be counterplay. Plus isn't Poe dodging out from sight of the gunner flavorful?

47 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I literally said that said design is goof

Turrets being turrets should already make them worse jousters. That needs to be addressed by ffg pronto

Them having bombs would be a good strategic counterplay to jousters, hence why the K and SCURRG and even Deci have them

Problem is again they're already better at jousting than most jousters.

oh my bad, i thought you were suggesting that the current implimentation was giving jousters an edge over turrets that required bombs to counter

3 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

I really thing a target lock requirement to fire out of arc is required. As we have seen in the movies, it takes some effort from the gunner to attack a ship. It shouldn't be just a free "attack anywhere"... Then you would have to put some actions and attention to your turret. It would still be a benefit, but there would be counterplay. Plus isn't Poe dodging out from sight of the gunner flavorful?

-1 red out of arc would be my preference.

But yeah, some general penalty for firing out of arc would improve the game I think, and be flavourful, because it's much more difficult to shoot things when you can't see what's in front of you, and therefore don't have a good idea when the pilot is about to turn.

If you gave a significant penalty to out of arc firing though, you'd probably have to kill autothrusters.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

-1 red out of arc would be my preference.

But yeah, some general penalty for firing out of arc would improve the game I think, and be flavourful, because it's much more difficult to shoot things when you can't see what's in front of you, and therefore don't have a good idea when the pilot is about to turn.

If you gave a significant penalty to out of arc firing though, you'd probably have to kill autothrusters.

Change a red to a blank?