23 minutes ago, Yakostovian said:

Well, since the largest of Rebel combat ships are repurposed skyscrapers and luxury cruisers, it's hard to say that scum couldn't/wouldn't do the same.

Could? Certainly.

Would? .....why?

The rebels had to have capital ships, because the point of the rebellion was to defeat the empire, which means that sooner or later a head-on fight with an imperial capital ship was inevitable.

Scum & Villainy, though, ultimately exist to make money. There's no real profit margin in knocking over a star destroyer, and a heck of a lot of risk. The same amount of investment would net you a lot of ships that can catch and capture freighters in many different places, without producing a blip on Tagge's graphs which is going to result in the Imperial Sledgehammer landing on you.

Yeah, i’m not seeing the need for a Scoundrels and Smugglers faction. Scum and Villainy is already a bit of a catch all faction as it already includes smugglers, petty criminals, a warrior culture, rival crime organizations, bounty hunters, mercenaries, Pirates, a law enforcement officer, and a former Sith Lord. Pre-ANH Han, Chewie, and Lando fit into that company just fine. And that’s not even counting that Han was working for Jabba, who is already established as Scum.

Now, there might be a case for a sub-faction, what with some newer cards actually making that matter. But without already existing sub-factions for Scum like Black Sun or Mandalorians, I think this is still unlikely.

4 hours ago, Ktan said:

Most people's preferred version of the Greedo/Solo enounter seems to me to be the one where Han shoots first. S

The actual version you mean?

2 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

The actual version you mean?

Mal certainly approves.

I don't hate the idea. I'd rather see Clone Wars factions first, but I'm always open to more factions!

There could also be a HWK fix and some more Z-95 pilots in that pack.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Could? Certainly.

Would? .....why?

The rebels had to have capital ships, because the point of the rebellion was to defeat the empire, which means that sooner or later a head-on fight with an imperial capital ship was inevitable.

Scum & Villainy, though, ultimately exist to make money. There's no real profit margin in knocking over a star destroyer, and a heck of a lot of risk. The same amount of investment would net you a lot of ships that can catch and capture freighters in many different places, without producing a blip on Tagge's graphs which is going to result in the Imperial Sledgehammer landing on you.

Fair points all, though I disagree on the profitability of commandeering a Star Destroyer: there would be a boat-load of profit involved. That being said, the risk involved and the difficulty in moving all that merchandise quickly enough to avoid reprisal would be discouraging to say the least.

Maybe...

But it would probably have to be multiple sub-factions for Scum, and there's no reason yet to do it. The new movies' story forced designers to clarify the sub-factions just so it made more sense in the game.

I wouldn't mind "ScumSubs" if it served a useful game aspect.

Scoundrels (non-affiliated unorganized groups or individuals that do not follow Imperial/Local laws: Smugglers, Gypsy and Thieves) probably throw Bounty Hunters, Mercenaries in there too.

Crime Organizations: Hutt Cartel, Black Sun, Kanjiklub, Guavian Death Gang, Pyke Syndicate, Death Watch,etc.

Can't tell if this is a troll post or not.

They could just do the FO or Resistance treatment to scum. EZ PZ please do not give FFG the idea the community wants another faction for bad guys with bad attitudes that do bad things outside the law.

Why not give S&V a subfaction? Imps have the FO subfaction and Rebels have the Resistance subfaction.

11 hours ago, weisguy119 said:

Why not give S&V a subfaction? Imps have the FO subfaction and Rebels have the Resistance subfaction.

This is maybe the best suggestion for adding; this faction into game. I approve.

Considering that FFG has discontinued the Star Wars LCG in favor of Destiny , Smugglers & Scoundrels are gone forever!

On 4/10/2018 at 11:30 AM, Yakostovian said:

Fair points all, though I disagree on the profitability of commandeering a Star Destroyer: there would be a boat-load of profit involved. That being said, the risk involved and the difficulty in moving all that merchandise quickly enough to avoid reprisal would be discouraging to say the least.

There is really no reason whatsoever to do this based on a cost/benefit analysis or even rudimentary risk assessment.

The Star Destroyer would have to either be boarded and captured, or stolen from dock while a skeleton crew was aboard.

Option A requires a bunch of pirates to disable a Star Destroyer without destroying it. Then board it. Then deal with not only the crew of THOUSANDS, but the nearly 10,000 stormtroopers on board. Any criminal faction that could do that, wouldn’t have to, and would see it as an unacceptable risk and cost in material and personnel.

Option B is a little more feasible, but even a skeleton crew of an Imperial-II is (according to Wookiepedia) 5000. So the pirates need 5,000 trained ship crew, PLUS enough combat personnel to overpower the existing skeleton crew, a crew that ostensibly knows their ship far better than the would be thieves.

Sure. You could have a contrived way of forcing one to surrender (a la the rogue squadron books), but even in later books the Errant Venture was such a headache to handle logistically that it was essentially treated as a mobile city/status symbol.

Then comes the risk associated. Successful criminal enterprises become successful by not becoming high profile enough to justify bringing the full weight of law enforcement (or the military in the case of Star Wars) against them. Stealing a Star Destroyer would get the exact same response as if some Somali Pirates managed to steal a US Aircraft Carrier: they would very shortly cease to exist.

EDIT: Black Sun would likely have the resources to do it, but they would never jeopardize their cozy relationship with the Empire.

On 4/10/2018 at 3:59 AM, pkreynolds said:

Han, Chewie and Lando from this time period don't really belong in Scum & Villainy, and FFG already has a name for where they belong in the Star Wars card game - Smugglers & Scoundrels.

I know, we're most likely going to get a Scum Falcon, but bear with me. Wouldn't it be cool if...

The designers brought in a Smugglers & Scoundrels starter pack like Most Wanted, allowing for some existing ships like the YT-2400, to be incorporated. And then, also introduced new squadron building rules allowing Scum & Villainy to be fully integrated with Empire/First Order and Smugglers & Scoundrels with Rebels/Resistance. And then if they want to get really ambitious, Scum and Smugglers could join together but only as long as no other faction is included.

Dare to dream, why not?

I don’t think a new faction could be created but what if you made a upgrade slot to where certain ships from scum and villainy can be joined with rebel forces or imperial forces. You can make it a dual card and you would state it. But that way certain people like Zuckuss who was hired by Vader could actually pair up. That might be a fun thing.

On 4/10/2018 at 3:02 AM, thespaceinvader said:

No.

He's Scum, Scum is where he fits, introducing a new faction for no reason when there's a perfectly fine one already would be stupid.

Exactly.

This is a two faction game and it would be absolutely stoopid to introduce more than the tried-and-true Light vs. Dark Star Wars ethos. In fact. . .

*what? when?*

Well, that's it. XWM has jumped the shark!!

*stomping, rage quitting, checking to see if anyone is coming with*

30 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

There is really no reason whatsoever to do this based on a cost/benefit analysis or even rudimentary risk assessment.

The Star Destroyer would have to either be boarded and captured, or stolen from dock while a skeleton crew was aboard.

Option A requires a bunch of pirates to disable a Star Destroyer without destroying it. Then board it. Then deal with not only the crew of THOUSANDS, but the nearly 10,000 stormtroopers on board. Any criminal faction that could do that, wouldn’t have to, and would see it as an unacceptable risk and cost in material and personnel.

Option B is a little more feasible, but even a skeleton crew of an Imperial-II is (according to Wookiepedia) 5000. So the pirates need 5,000 trained ship crew, PLUS enough combat personnel to overpower the existing skeleton crew, a crew that ostensibly knows their ship far better than the would be thieves.

Sure. You could have a contrived way of forcing one to surrender (a la the rogue squadron books), but even in later books the Errant Venture was such a headache to handle logistically that it was essentially treated as a mobile city/status symbol.

Then comes the risk associated. Successful criminal enterprises become successful by not becoming high profile enough to justify bringing the full weight of law enforcement (or the military in the case of Star Wars) against them. Stealing a Star Destroyer would get the exact same response as if some Somali Pirates managed to steal a US Aircraft Carrier: they would very shortly cease to exist.

EDIT: Black Sun would likely have the resources to do it, but they would never jeopardize their cozy relationship with the Empire.

As I said in my synopsis, I agreed with everything but the profitability. It would be PROFITABLE to take a Star Destroyer. The risks simply outweigh the rewards.

On 4/10/2018 at 5:04 AM, pkreynolds said:

As I said in the original post, the Smugglers & Scoundrels faction exists in FFG's Star Wars card game, which also has Scum & Villainy.

As for why I don't think Han Solo fits into Scum & Villainy without seeing the movie. Han is one of the most iconic Star Wars characters. We've known about him for 40 years. He's appeared in dozens of books and other stories - true, most of which are now considered "Legends" and outside of the post-Disney canon, but how far are they really going to stray from the character we already know. Sure, he operated outside of the law and did illegal things before joining the Rebellion, but it's clear that he has a moral code that sets him above the likes of Bossk, Dengar and many other Scum & Villainy characters.

Anyway, as I said I think Han and friends will most likely end up in Scum & Villainy simply because they don't have a better niche to put them in. Like Imperial Boba Fett or Rebel Dash Rendar (who should also really be part of a Smugglers & Scoundrels subfaction).

The context is different.

Star Wars LCG, like SW:Destiny, wanted to have three main kinds of characters for either heroes or villains: the roguish, Scum/Scoundrels (Yellow in Destiny), the military whether Rebel Resistance or Imperial (Red in Destiny), and the force-wielding faction such as Sith and Jedi.

X-Wing doesn't really make sense in the same way. We don't need two Scum/Scoundrel factions, since we don't need to conveniently split into Heroes and Villains. If there were some sort of a subfaction to Scum, much like Resistance or First Order are to Rebels or Imperial, it runs into a little bit of a problem in that several existing ships would make more sense there, than in a strictly S&S instead of S&V faction.

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 5:43 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

The star wars card game has Rebel/Jedi/Scoundrels and Imperial Navy/Sith/Scum - three very distinct subfactions but only two 'sides'; light side or dark side.

Scum & Villainy was introduced as a third faction in X-wing because FFG wanted to introduce a lot of stuff (mostly from Star Wars Galaxies) that didn't belong in either rebel or empire, and because if they gave the empire all the Executor-scene bounty hunters they'd have ended up massively, massively up in terms of large ships (note that they actually did do that in armada!)

Also, note that a lot of more 'moral villains' have ended up in Scum & Villainy in X-wing - Nym and Fenn Rau are the obvious ones (which is why they're dual-factioned Rebel and Scum) but also Drea Renthal, Graz, the Tansarii Point characters (Serissu, Sunny, etc). For that matter, Zuckuss isn't too bad a dude.

Besides, we already know what the fourth faction will be.

On 4/10/2018 at 5:43 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

The star wars card game has Rebel/Jedi/Scoundrels and Imperial Navy/Sith/Scum - three very distinct subfactions but only two 'sides'; light side or dark side.

Scum & Villainy was introduced as a third faction in X-wing because FFG wanted to introduce a lot of stuff (mostly from Star Wars Galaxies) that didn't belong in either rebel or empire, and because if they gave the empire all the Executor-scene bounty hunters they'd have ended up massively, massively up in terms of large ships (note that they actually did do that in armada!)

Also, note that a lot of more 'moral villains' have ended up in Scum & Villainy in X-wing - Nym and Fenn Rau are the obvious ones (which is why they're dual-factioned Rebel and Scum) but also Drea Renthal, Graz, the Tansarii Point characters (Serissu, Sunny, etc). For that matter, Zuckuss isn't too bad a dude.

I still think giving Imperials the Executor Bounty Hunters would have been better for the game instead of dumping a bottle of ink on the card set.

21 hours ago, weisguy119 said:

Why not give S&V a subfaction? Imps have the FO subfaction and Rebels have the Resistance subfaction.

This is what I want. Add smugglers and spies as a subfaction of Scum. Gives a good place for scum han/chewie/lando, dash if they wanted down the line, EU characters like Talon Karrde, Mara Jade (could also have an imperial version, but I want her from when she was in Karrde's organization), etc

On 4/10/2018 at 9:00 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Largely because adding scum & villainy as a faction becomes a lot less believable in that scale. Can you see a bounty hunter and a slack handful of mercs taking on a TIE squadron? sure. Taking on a Star Destroyer squadron......that would feel a bit more out of place.

I'm sure that in the Hutt/Black Sun/Mando background there are the odd warship which could give lighter imperial capital ships a run for their money (the marauder-class corvette springs to mind) but when the game is really built around engagements between heavy frigate up to heavy cruiser scale ships....it'd be a bit odd.

Behold the battle cruiser of Crimson Jack!

ostensibly a captured Imperial warship, but it would be a large scum ship in armada if they allowed scum to be separate.

6 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

This is what I want. Add smugglers and spies as a subfaction of Scum. Gives a good place for scum han/chewie/lando, dash if they wanted down the line, EU characters like Talon Karrde, Mara Jade (could also have an imperial version, but I want her from when she was in Karrde's organization), etc

Scum could/should? have multiple sub factions to show the fractured nature of the main faction:

hutt cartel

Black sun syndicate

pirates

Mandos

Bounty Hunters

rogues

at this point you would need to retrofit way much tho

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Scum could/should? have multiple sub factions to show the fractured nature of the main faction:

hutt cartel

Black sun syndicate

pirates

Mandos

Bounty Hunters

rogues

at this point you would need to retrofit way much tho

Hutt Cartels, Black Sun, Pirates, and Bounty Hunters all fit just fine under the "Scum" or "Villainy" parts of the faction IMO. Plenty of the Mandos do too, though not all of them.

Smugglers like han and lando on the other hand, aren't villains, and aren't really the same kind of scum either.

58 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Hutt Cartels, Black Sun, Pirates, and Bounty Hunters all fit just fine under the "Scum" or "Villainy" parts of the faction IMO. Plenty of the Mandos do too, though not all of them.

Smugglers like han and lando on the other hand, aren't villains, and aren't really the same kind of scum either.

That's a bit of a weird distinction as there are plenty of characters who are already Scum but are are already labeled as such. Emon Azzameen doesn't seem that different from Han or Lando, Nym is a freedom fighter who was a primary hero for two games, everything I've seen about Constable Zuvio makes it seem like a law man just trying to protect those under his care, and Ventress was turning over a new leaf around the time it seems her pilot card is based on. I'd also argue that most named Mando pilots we have (Fenn Rau, Old Teroch, Kad Solus, Ketsu, and Sabine) likewise don't really fit the "Scum" or "Villainy" descriptors, but they are there anyway.

While I'm not against a more Smuggler based sub-faction (particularly if we bring in the likes of Talon Karrde and have some subfaction specific upgrades/synergies), but I think objecting to them being straight Scum because they don't seem "Scummy" is a little silly considering what has come before.

24 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

That's a bit of a weird distinction as there are plenty of characters who are already Scum but are are already labeled as such. Emon Azzameen doesn't seem that different from Han or Lando, Nym is a freedom fighter who was a primary hero for two games, everything I've seen about Constable Zuvio makes it seem like a law man just trying to protect those under his care, and Ventress was turning over a new leaf around the time it seems her pilot card is based on. I'd also argue that most named Mando pilots we have (Fenn Rau, Old Teroch, Kad Solus, Ketsu, and Sabine) likewise don't really fit the "Scum" or "Villainy" descriptors, but they are there anyway.

While I'm not against a more Smuggler based sub-faction (particularly if we bring in the likes of Talon Karrde and have some subfaction specific upgrades/synergies), but I think objecting to them being straight Scum because they don't seem "Scummy" is a little silly considering what has come before.

So...just like imperials had Boba Fet and kath scarlet, and rebels had dash rendar before scum existed?

4 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Behold the battle cruiser of Crimson Jack!

ostensibly a captured Imperial warship, but it would be a large scum ship in armada if they allowed scum to be separate.

Depends. Whilst it's star destroyer shaped, it didn't feel that big compared to a true imperial star destroyer when you see it ****** up the falcon (albeit that the relative scales of things in the early marvel comics are flexible at best!). I'd happily believe it was a medium-sized ship like an Interdictor-class, Victory-class or Gladiator-class (it looks a bit too big to be something like a Raider, where you can see meaningful 'windows' on a bridge. It's supposed to have been disabled in a battle with the Rebels before he nabbed, it, after all, and there can't be too many occasions of an Imperial or Imperial II being taken out.

More importantly, if we're getting stuff from the early star warriors comics, I want the Rabbit's Foot first...