Han, Chewie and Lando from this time period don't really belong in Scum & Villainy, and FFG already has a name for where they belong in the Star Wars card game - Smugglers & Scoundrels.

I know, we're most likely going to get a Scum Falcon, but bear with me. Wouldn't it be cool if...

The designers brought in a Smugglers & Scoundrels starter pack like Most Wanted, allowing for some existing ships like the YT-2400, to be incorporated. And then, also introduced new squadron building rules allowing Scum & Villainy to be fully integrated with Empire/First Order and Smugglers & Scoundrels with Rebels/Resistance. And then if they want to get really ambitious, Scum and Smugglers could join together but only as long as no other faction is included.

Dare to dream, why not?

No.

He's Scum, Scum is where he fits, introducing a new faction for no reason when there's a perfectly fine one already would be stupid.

29 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No.

He's Scum, Scum is where he fits, introducing a new faction for no reason when there's a perfectly fine one already would be stupid.

Except that's exactly what FFG has already done with one of their Star Wars games.

Agree to disagree that Han fits under the Scum & Villainy label. To me, that's as out of place as Imperial Boba Fett. It's shoehorning a character into an existing spot just because you haven't already established an ideal spot. In Boba Fett's case, FFG later (wisely) rectified that decision.

Which one? I'm not aware of any FFG game with four factions, but I don't know all of them well.

E: also, how do you know where he fits without seeting the movie? Before he was in the OT he was a smuggler and more than likely, a train robber, working for one of the worst crime bosses in the galaxy. That's pretty scummy and villainous.

As I said in the original post, the Smugglers & Scoundrels faction exists in FFG's Star Wars card game, which also has Scum & Villainy.

As for why I don't think Han Solo fits into Scum & Villainy without seeing the movie. Han is one of the most iconic Star Wars characters. We've known about him for 40 years. He's appeared in dozens of books and other stories - true, most of which are now considered "Legends" and outside of the post-Disney canon, but how far are they really going to stray from the character we already know. Sure, he operated outside of the law and did illegal things before joining the Rebellion, but it's clear that he has a moral code that sets him above the likes of Bossk, Dengar and many other Scum & Villainy characters.

Anyway, as I said I think Han and friends will most likely end up in Scum & Villainy simply because they don't have a better niche to put them in. Like Imperial Boba Fett or Rebel Dash Rendar (who should also really be part of a Smugglers & Scoundrels subfaction).

Being a smuggler for Jabba the Hutt isn't enough to fit him along side bounty hunters, cartel runners, cartel bosses etc.?

I think what you really want with your line of thought, is X-wing 2.0
Incorporating a new faction, and putting scum into empire leads to a huge balancing problem.

Imagine the problem the playtesters have currently, not being able to predict what combo's get out of hand (the ghost for example)... Then double or triple those issues if you combine empire and scum. You would probably have to split up the existing scum faction, so there is some kind of balance, etc. etc. Basically a nightmare, and nobody would ever consider it.

That being said, a sub-faction to the scum and villainy within the scoundrel and smuggler faction might be possible, although I personally can't see the growth of faction with the source material available. One movie does not a faction make.

Based on the problems the game has been experiencing over the last few waves, and the number of errata for recent cards, I wasn't aware that X-Wing is being play tested much at all anymore...

If Scum can include characters like Emon Azzameen and Nym then it can definitely include Han and Lando (and I guess Chewie). Obi-Wan seeks out someone like Han in Mos Eisley, which is where the "Scum and villainy" line comes from. Most people's preferred version of the Greedo/Solo enounter seems to me to be the one where Han shoots first. Scum includes general rogues, mercenaries and scoundrels (Ketsu, Nym, Emon, Hondo, Vizago) as well as outright depraved criminals (Jabba the Hut, Xizor, etc).

It took quite a lot of time to bring scum up to the same level as Rebels and Imperials, and they only came out in Wave 6. Trying to add another new faction which, so far, has a very small number of characters and would also heavily overlap with Scum is probably not worthwhile at this time. The Scum faction is a wide umbrella.

1 hour ago, pkreynolds said:

Han, Chewie and Lando from this time period don't really belong in Scum & Villainy, and FFG already has a name for where they belong in the Star Wars card game - Smugglers & Scoundrels.

I know, we're most likely going to get a Scum Falcon, but bear with me. Wouldn't it be cool if...

The designers brought in a Smugglers & Scoundrels starter pack like Most Wanted, allowing for some existing ships like the YT-2400, to be incorporated. And then, also introduced new squadron building rules allowing Scum & Villainy to be fully integrated with Empire/First Order and Smugglers & Scoundrels with Rebels/Resistance. And then if they want to get really ambitious, Scum and Smugglers could join together but only as long as no other faction is included.

Dare to dream, why not?

First time we see Han, this is our introduction to him:

- He is hanging out in Mos Eisley, "a wretched hive of scum and villainy"
- He shots a rando guy in the chest, with what seems like a casual move for the character
- He works for one of the worst crime lords, and owes money around the galaxy
- He is willing to exploit Luke and Obi-Wan in their dire situation. He says that whatever money they are paying for a simple transport, is more than enough to cover his debts.

Yeah, he might become a "smuggler with a golden heart" later, but really, I think he just wants to bang Leia. (Who could blame him, eh?)

Smugglers and Scoundrels is nothing, but an attempt at whitewashing grey characters.... Look. Han was a prick, but he changed. That's his story arc. It works because it's gradual. If we are to make his character into someone who was always flirting with good, and never went really dark, we no longer have a story.

I don't get why some folks just can't enjoy ambiguity in their stories.

Besides, this faction, not only feels forced, but would seriously drain the future expansion reserves of both Scum, and Rebels.

2 hours ago, pkreynolds said:

Han, Chewie and Lando from this time period don't really belong in Scum & Villainy, and FFG already has a name for where they belong in the Star Wars card game - Smugglers & Scoundrels.

I know, we're most likely going to get a Scum Falcon, but bear with me. Wouldn't it be cool if...

The designers brought in a Smugglers & Scoundrels starter pack like Most Wanted, allowing for some existing ships like the YT-2400, to be incorporated. And then, also introduced new squadron building rules allowing Scum & Villainy to be fully integrated with Empire/First Order and Smugglers & Scoundrels with Rebels/Resistance. And then if they want to get really ambitious, Scum and Smugglers could join together but only as long as no other faction is included.

Dare to dream, why not?

This would be VERY cool - I like it.

Yeah, no. If X-Wing needs another faction or two, they should be the Old Republic and the CIS, not ANOTHER Scum faction, because that's essentially what this is. Scum is supposed to be our catch-all faction, with all of the independent factions that don't fit the mold of the Empire or Rebel Alliance. Bounty hunters, mercenaries, smugglers, crooks, and scoundrels all fit. This is just silly.

2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

First time we see Han, this is our introduction to him:

- He is hanging out in Mos Eisley, "a wretched hive of scum and villainy"
- He shots a rando guy in the chest, with what seems like a casual move for the character
- He works for one of the worst crime lords, and owes money around the galaxy
- He is willing to exploit Luke and Obi-Wan in their dire situation. He says that whatever money they are paying for a simple transport, is more than enough to cover his debts.

Yeah, he might become a "smuggler with a golden heart" later, but really, I think he just wants to bang Leia. (Who could blame him, eh?)

Smugglers and Scoundrels is nothing, but an attempt at whitewashing grey characters.... Look. Han was a prick, but he changed. That's his story arc. It works because it's gradual. If we are to make his character into someone who was always flirting with good, and never went really dark, we no longer have a story.

I don't get why some folks just can't enjoy ambiguity in their stories.

Besides, this faction, not only feels forced, but would seriously drain the future expansion reserves of both Scum, and Rebels.

That's the problem with the Special Edition Greedo shoots too Han. Han who just outright kills Greedo in pre-emptive self-defense is dangerous. When he comes back to help Luke he's redeemed. Han who doesn't "shoot first" is just late.

Solo is just going to foul everything up isn't it?

3 hours ago, pkreynolds said:

As I said in the original post, the Smugglers & Scoundrels faction exists in FFG's Star Wars card game, which also has Scum & Villainy.

As for why I don't think Han Solo fits into Scum & Villainy without seeing the movie. Han is one of the most iconic Star Wars characters. We've known about him for 40 years. He's appeared in dozens of books and other stories - true, most of which are now considered "Legends" and outside of the post-Disney canon, but how far are they really going to stray from the character we already know. Sure, he operated outside of the law and did illegal things before joining the Rebellion, but it's clear that he has a moral code that sets him above the likes of Bossk, Dengar and many other Scum & Villainy characters.

Anyway, as I said I think Han and friends will most likely end up in Scum & Villainy simply because they don't have a better niche to put them in. Like Imperial Boba Fett or Rebel Dash Rendar (who should also really be part of a Smugglers & Scoundrels subfaction).

The star wars card game has Rebel/Jedi/Scoundrels and Imperial Navy/Sith/Scum - three very distinct subfactions but only two 'sides'; light side or dark side.

Scum & Villainy was introduced as a third faction in X-wing because FFG wanted to introduce a lot of stuff (mostly from Star Wars Galaxies) that didn't belong in either rebel or empire, and because if they gave the empire all the Executor-scene bounty hunters they'd have ended up massively, massively up in terms of large ships (note that they actually did do that in armada!)

Also, note that a lot of more 'moral villains' have ended up in Scum & Villainy in X-wing - Nym and Fenn Rau are the obvious ones (which is why they're dual-factioned Rebel and Scum) but also Drea Renthal, Graz, the Tansarii Point characters (Serissu, Sunny, etc). For that matter, Zuckuss isn't too bad a dude.

Watch the trailer again...

Mother of Dragons: I might be the only person (tadadaaa) who knows (bunnabwaaaaa) what you really are.

Solo: (smirking) What's that?

Mother of Dragons: Scum & villainy!

Okay, well the trailer cuts right after Solo's question mark, but the next line is obviously implied.

Ditto N'Dru, for that matter - his backstory is that he basically flies out to bounty hunt targets and gets them away from the hunters.

I mean for a fee of course, he's not stupid.

6 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The star wars card game has Rebel/Jedi/Scoundrels and Imperial Navy/Sith/Scum - three very distinct subfactions but only two 'sides'; light side or dark side.

Scum & Villainy was introduced as a third faction in X-wing because FFG wanted to introduce a lot of stuff (mostly from Star Wars Galaxies) that didn't belong in either rebel or empire, and because if they gave the empire all the Executor-scene bounty hunters they'd have ended up massively, massively up in terms of large ships (note that they actually did do that in armada!)

Also, note that a lot of more 'moral villains' have ended up in Scum & Villainy in X-wing - Nym and Fenn Rau are the obvious ones (which is why they're dual-factioned Rebel and Scum) but also Drea Renthal, Graz, the Tansarii Point characters (Serissu, Sunny, etc). For that matter, Zuckuss isn't too bad a dude.

Armada has all the Scoundrels or rather Rogues like Ghost and The Falcon and Villains like Slave One and Punishing One as squadrons for either Rebels or Imperials so follows the two faction model.

1 minute ago, Frimmel said:

Armada has all the Scoundrels or rather Rogues like Ghost and The Falcon and Villains like Slave One and Punishing One as squadrons for either Rebels or Imperials so follows the two faction model.

Largely because adding scum & villainy as a faction becomes a lot less believable in that scale. Can you see a bounty hunter and a slack handful of mercs taking on a TIE squadron? sure. Taking on a Star Destroyer squadron......that would feel a bit more out of place.

I'm sure that in the Hutt/Black Sun/Mando background there are the odd warship which could give lighter imperial capital ships a run for their money (the marauder-class corvette springs to mind) but when the game is really built around engagements between heavy frigate up to heavy cruiser scale ships....it'd be a bit odd.

Yeah, S&V ships in legends and main canon mostly maxed out at corvette size or slightly larger, with the exception of the Errant Venture and the Eravana from TFA.

Presumably there were a few more, but very few warships that could compete on the scale of engagements featuring multiple star destroyers.

44 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

That's the problem with the Special Edition Greedo shoots too Han. Han who just outright kills Greedo in pre-emptive self-defense is dangerous. When he comes back to help Luke he's redeemed. Han who doesn't "shoot first" is just late.

But Punctuality is a sign of goodness!

Scum-Han confirmed.

2 minutes ago, Yakostovian said:

But Punctuality is a sign of goodness!

Scum-Han confirmed.

He worked for jabba

He was experienced with dealing with people like greedo, ie killing

He's scum. We don't need new factions

24 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yeah, S&V ships in legends and main canon mostly maxed out at corvette size or slightly larger, with the exception of the Errant Venture and the Eravana from TFA.

Presumably there were a few more, but very few warships that could compete on the scale of engagements featuring multiple star destroyers.

Also the Invidious.

Legends seems to have quite a few Imperial star destroyer captains who went rogue after Endor, but very few who would be willing to coorperate with one another in Armada scale conflicts.

You know what I forgot

They literally found Solo in a WRETCHED HIVE OF SCUM AND VILLIANRY

26 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Largely because adding scum & villainy as a faction becomes a lot less believable in that scale. Can you see a bounty hunter and a slack handful of mercs taking on a TIE squadron? sure. Taking on a Star Destroyer squadron......that would feel a bit more out of place.

I'm sure that in the Hutt/Black Sun/Mando background there are the odd warship which could give lighter imperial capital ships a run for their money (the marauder-class corvette springs to mind) but when the game is really built around engagements between heavy frigate up to heavy cruiser scale ships....it'd be a bit odd.

Well, since the largest of Rebel combat ships are repurposed skyscrapers and luxury cruisers, it's hard to say that scum couldn't/wouldn't do the same.

23 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yeah, S&V ships in legends and main canon mostly maxed out at corvette size or slightly larger, with the exception of the Errant Venture and the Eravana from TFA.

Presumably there were a few more, but very few warships that could compete on the scale of engagements featuring multiple star destroyers.

But, the Eravana is not a warship. That would be like the Knock Nevis going against the U.S.S. Missouri.

9 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I see someone doesn't like my joke.

Or, you know, like a Rebel Transport going up against a CR90.

Wait.