11 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Success is not the main factor in whether a list is 'the boogeyman' or not, play experience is.

The Ghost's Sensor Jammer nonsense is a horrible play experience, moreso than facing FML. Yeah the outcome is the same but the illusion that you had a real chance is stronger when you play against FML, so people don't mind it anywhere near as much.

You are probably right. But personally, FML (great name!) is worse for me. Miranda and Bomblets are less fun than Ghost

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

But Miranda Low Fenn/Ezra is as successful or even more as GhostFenn. I‘m not sure why the community has not picked that up yet. But it has been for weeks by now. It should be the actual Boogeyman, but somehow is not.

Yes I agree this is a rough list. Been trying for awhile now to find a good counter. Ezra able to continually take stress is garbage but such is life I guess

53 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

You are probably right. But personally, FML (great name!) is worse for me. Miranda and Bomblets are less fun than Ghost

This was the case with Palp Aces and Jumpmasters back in the day - everyone was hating on Jumpmasters but the Aces were the better squad. The difference was that vs Jumpmasters you got hammered and lost in a mad alpha strike at the start that pissed people off, while vs aces you got to spend an hour uselessly flying around trying to hit Soontir so it felt like you'd actually played a game.

The amount of Harpoon hate vs the power of Harpoons is another example, because the Harpoons just piss people off as much as if they're actually overpowered or not.

4 hours ago, BVRCH said:

I know the internet isn't the place to critically analyze data without bias, but is the sheathipede really an issue?

I honestly think if harpoons were to be nerfed (I think they will be), a Lowhhrick errata would come hand in hand.

The Sheathipede should be the investment and hamstring that the Upsilon gives/takes from a squad when chosen; its WAAAAY too cheap for what it can do.

This (second sentence). If Harpoons gets a nerf and the Wookies don't, that will be incurable CANCER.

4 hours ago, Keffisch said:

An undercosted multi-arc support ship that lets a large base ship boost at PS 11 and denies token use, AND can be made into a control ship as well?

I don't see any issues...

This.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Herahsoka was a near-broken combo and a definite negative play experience. So FFG decided to frakking double down on it. It's SO disappointing.

Great analysis and theory, agreed.

I detest the PS11 Coordinate, but I also think a large part of it would be fixed if you couldn't include both shuttles in the same list. Using the 'Peade means you don't get the TLT double tap, and docking the Peade means you don't get the PS11 coordinate. It wouldn't be a cure, but it would sure help.

1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:

This was the case with Palp Aces and Jumpmasters back in the day - everyone was hating on Jumpmasters but the Aces were the better squad. The difference was that vs Jumpmasters you got hammered and lost in a mad alpha strike at the start that pissed people off, while vs aces you got to spend an hour uselessly flying around trying to hit Soontir so it felt like you'd actually played a game.

The amount of Harpoon hate vs the power of Harpoons is another example, because the Harpoons just piss people off as much as if they're actually overpowered or not.

Indeed. It's part of the reason I'll Show You The Dark Side draws so much rage; a hit that penetrates shields, by itself, isn't so bad, and it's not that powerful an ability with the cost to set up and trigger taken into account. But taking away your opponent's ability to shoot - not just 'make you miss' but smugly deny you even the ability to roll dice - is really annoying to experience.

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

But Miranda Low Fenn/Ezra is as successful or even more as GhostFenn. I‘m not sure why the community has not picked that up yet. But it has been for weeks by now. It should be the actual Boogeyman, but somehow is not.

Last time I played that list I got off 6 harpoons. SIX!!! and I did not kill a ship. Any other list would be in a heaping pile of ruin. Its ridiculously broken.

On 4/9/2018 at 4:18 PM, wurms said:

Why would infinite bombs and 2 guaranteed attacks in 360 degree range be popular? And they go on the same f***ing ship

Lol tried and failed to be snarky because you couldn't hold back your saltiness ?

Rebels broke just admit it. Zero cognizance of synergy and poorly playtested epic to dogfight mechanics.

Lazy play design to rely on innovations pursuant to a sphere of play that winds up dominating due to faction access. To hades with you, Imma gonna fly 4 jumpmasters with trick shot and courier droid to show you the grey side.

18 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

But Miranda Low Fenn/Ezra is as successful or even more as GhostFenn. I‘m not sure why the community has not picked that up yet. But it has been for weeks by now. It should be the actual Boogeyman, but somehow is not.

I wouldn't necessarily say more successful, I agree its similar in terms of its strength, but it also requires a little more tact to fly. Ghost/Fenn is everywhere because its so easy to do, and that is what I find to be the bigger issue. You also have Miranda and Lowhhrick in FML (I'm using that too, great name), I find it hard to blame the Sheathipede when those 2 are next to it.

As others have said, if you're good, there are ways around FML or at least it feels like you actually played a game whether you win or lose.

Ghost/Fenn with Sensor Jammer Hot-Cop Quad-tap TLTs is like the rebel base on Crait; full of salt and you need a miniaturized Death Star laser to get through it. Its the feeling of hopelessness when playing against it that makes this list a problem, not how objectively competitive it is. That's my opinion at least.

15 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

The Sheathipede should be the investment and hamstring that the Upsilon gives/takes from a squad when chosen; its WAAAAY too cheap for what it can do.

This (second sentence). If Harpoons gets a nerf and the Wookies don't, that will be incurable CANCER.

Whilst I agree its a good ship, I don't agree that its too cheap. Other than Rex, its the only high tier ship under 25pts that the rebels have access to. Rex can also be bombed or harpooned off the board in a single attack with a bad roll so..

Well I think they will nerf Lowhhrick specifically with any nerf to harpoons, not necessarily wookiees. To mess with reinforce is to potentially kneecap an entire chassis, rather than just a single pilot.

Meh if they don't Nerf wookies that just gives us an excuse to bring out the trajectory simulated proton punishers

5 hours ago, Cloaker said:

Rebels broke just admit it. Zero cognizance of synergy and poorly playtested epic to dogfight mechanics.

Lazy play design to rely on innovations pursuant to a sphere of play that winds up dominating due to faction access. To hades with you, Imma gonna fly 4 jumpmasters with trick shot and courier droid to show you the grey side.

They put Coordinate in the dog fight game and when it didn’t make waves they thought it was fine. Not realising that it had nothing to do with the action but the ship it was on as the reason it made no impact.

The game is really starting to feel like it’s being designed by GW staff.

4 hours ago, BVRCH said:

but it also requires a little more tact to fly. Ghost/Fenn is everywhere because its so easy to do, and that is what I find to be the bigger issue

In my experience a bad GhostFenn player is pretty easy to beat. Even players like me are catching up and by now have played against GhostFenn more often than a player might have put it on the table.

I think FML has a higher skill floor and ceiling (a player needs to be better to make use of it, but The squad also allows him o leverage skill to a high level). But this self-selects for players who have at least reached that floor.

So I‘d claim that there is a wider spread of skill among GhostFenn players, and I have less problem with part of them. They can reach higher tables despite being not that good because the squad is so easy to play, but then they are in over their heads.

FML players on the other hand that get to the upper half of the tables are pretty good and will be much harder to beat.

I hope that makes sense. It‘s more of a feeling, but there might be hints to support it (eg based on win distributions)

20 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

On 4/10/2018 at 12:44 AM, Keffisch said:

An undercosted multi-arc support ship that lets a large base ship boost at PS 11 and denies token use, AND can be made into a control ship as well?

I don't see any issues...

This.

Say it louder cuz people are still like, no the seahtipede is fine.

20 hours ago, JasonCole said:

I detest the PS11 Coordinate, but I also think a large part of it would be fixed if you couldn't include both shuttles in the same list. Using the 'Peade means you don't get the TLT double tap, and docking the Peade means you don't get the PS11 coordinate. It wouldn't be a cure, but it would sure help.

No. The pede should never have been PS11 with coordinate EVER. EVER EVER.

Its an awful design, its overpowered in 5 different ways. It has the most dangerous combo in the whole game (rebels only!) astro+crew, it has 2 arcs, it has PS9, its cheap, it can have regen or the BEST STRESS IN THE GAME. and COORDINATE?!?!?!

5 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Whilst I agree its a good ship, I don't agree that its too cheap. Other than Rex, its the only high tier ship under 25pts that the rebels have access to. Rex can also be bombed or harpooned off the board in a single attack with a bad roll so..

This is wrong btw.

Harpoon Z.

Rex.

TLT Y

JESS PAVA FFS

Jess doesn't cost under 25 points, harpoon zs are not very good, nor are pure TLT Y wings.

Rex and the Sheathipede are amazing though.

6 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Whilst I agree its a good ship, I don't agree that its too cheap. Other than Rex, its the only high tier ship under 25pts that the rebels have access to.

Compared to all the high tier ships under 25pts that the Imperials and Scum have, like uh... ummm... Nu Gunboat and err.... aaaaah.... Countdown?

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Its an awful design, its overpowered in 5 different ways. It has the most dangerous combo in the whole game (rebels only!) astro+crew, it has 2 arcs, it has PS9, its cheap, it can have regen or the BEST STRESS IN THE GAME. and COORDINATE?!?!?!

While I agree with the point, the ARC has both Crew and Astro along with 2 arcs. And it’s not close to OP.

While FFG dodged the bullet I don’t think they realised how close that bullet actually was.

Crew/Astro isn't the OP one, (scum) crew/trashmech is. That's why nothing has it any more.

9 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Whilst I agree its a good ship, I don't agree that its too cheap. Other than Rex, its the only high tier ship under 25pts that the rebels have access to. Rex can also be bombed or harpooned off the board in a single attack with a bad roll so..

What S Tier ships do the other factions have that are under 25 points?

45 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

What S Tier ships do the other factions have that are under 25 points?

Hmm... JM5K is exactly 25, so sadly just over. A 'poon Nu Boat is only 22 points. Maybe S- tier, but it's up there. I want Quadjumpers to be up there, but you can't just slap one into a list and have it be amazing like you can with Fenn.

Harpoons are just plain annoying. I don't even get mileage out of their condition card. I'll ignore it if my opponent lets me. TLTs are half the price of an Outrider HLC, and have almost equivalent damage per turn. Bomblets are... dumb, and with an infinite number there's nothing better. Miranda is boring, Lowhrick is boring, Nym is boring (but less than Miranda). Yay X-wing?

I think it's time we rename and rebrand the game to more accurately reflect the evolved meta:

Miranda-wing Turret Game

With its pivotal role in some **** EU book, the Koensayr Manufacturing BTL-S8 K-wing assault starfighter claimed its place in history. Boasting every broken card in the history of Miranda-wing plus the kitchen sink, and regen for good measure, this fun and wholesome craft has earned its reputation as one of the only ships in the Rebel Alliance's arsenal against the other Rebel Alliance players.

Control the only starfighter and outstanding pilot in the galaxy! In Miranda-Wing Turret Game, you take the role of Miranda Doni and command a group of merciless Rebel or daring Rebel pilots in furious ship-to-ship space slapfight.

Featuring stunningly detailed and painted K-wings, Miranda-Wing utterly fails to recreate exciting Star Wars space battles with small engagements of only a couple of craft to large conflicts where still only two or maybe three ships clash, because you want to win and swarms take actual effort and skill to play. Select and equip your Miranda + squadmates, pick your C3P0/Sabine crew, plan your attack, and timeout the game with your fat 40-50 point fortress.

14 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

This is wrong btw. Not wrong

Harpoon Z. Are trash

Rex. Already said Rex

TLT Y Standard TLT Y-wing is not under 25pts and also available to scum

JESS PAVA FFS Standard Jess Pava build is also not under 25pts

Hate leads to suffering.

15 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I hope that makes sense. It‘s more of a feeling, but there might be hints to support it (eg based on win distributions)

It sounds like you're agreeing with me. But yes I think I know what you mean.

13 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Compared to all the high tier ships under 25pts that the Imperials and Scum have, like uh... ummm... Nu Gunboat and err.... aaaaah.... Countdown?

You shrug off Nu's like err... but I wouldn't take 4 sheathipedes to a tournament. I do agree Scum don't have much in that category. A few more cheap options, but not high tier. Brutes and Pirates at base are under, but as I argued above, standard builds would put them over. I hear Unkar Plutt his making his way up the ranks (inside joke).

My larger point is Scum and Imperials have some decent options at a lower cost. Outside of Sheath and wookiees (I wouldn't necessarily put Rex up there anymore), most other high tier rebel ships are 40+pts. I should have known not to exaggerate my point for emphasis on the internet, my fault I'll take that

#NotMySoontir