I could see this working, and I might try it, but I'm still not convinced that Scum Nym really works with Bomblet Genius having been nerfed so hard.

Asajj Ventress (37)
Lone Wolf (2)
Latts Razzi (2)
Glitterstim (2)
Glitterstim (2)
Countermeasures (3)
Shadow Caster (3)

Captain Nym (Scum) (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Trajectory Simulator (1)
"Genius" (0)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
Havoc (0)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Fits better than I thought though, because I was remembering Advanced Sensors or AC and possibly Engine on Nym. With only a one point System he works out a bit cheaper than I thought, so maybe? E: and for some reason I'd remembered Timewalk being 53 points, not 51.

E again: and the title's probably unnecessary (albeit, it's always fun to chuck Mirandas onto debris when playing Asajj), so you could stick engine on Nym as well. Maybe there's something to it.

I might give it a shot, at least.

The real issue it faces though, is that Miranda Nym is almost an identical list, but comes with more autodamage, a better point fortress, and 2 full turrets instead of 1.5 turrets, and Rebel Nym's ability is more flexible and able to deny more table space, especially with Sabine to make the bombs reliable.

And thus why Scum is in a bad place. A list which at any other time in the game would probably be an absolute terror, is just outright overshadowed by a better version of the same thing.

If I'm running scum nym, I'm going all in on bomb jank

Double EM protons, baby! (Trajectory, "genius", EU which is really good for aiming trajectory for the following turn)

1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Yes.

Scum was bad, then FFG made scum OP, then FFG removed the OP stuff, now Scum is bad.

I'm in no way qualified enough for a full on analysis, but isn't there also a strong psychological aspect involved? I have the feeling many traditional scum players think their faction is weaker than it actually is atm. So their meta underrepresentation could partly be a self-fulfilling prophecy...

Just now, TheWampa said:

I'm in no way qualified enough for a full on analysis, but isn't there also a strong psychological aspect involved? I have the feeling many traditional scum players think their faction is weaker than it actually is atm. So their meta underrepresentation could partly be a self-fulfilling prophecy...

There is some of that. Nerfed stuff always takes more of a hit than it really deserves and almost inevitably creeps back in over time.

But the Scum faction was INCREDIBLY weak pre-Wave 8 and then when it was punching above its weight it was doing so on the back of relatively few pilots/ships/mechanics that were extremely strong (Dengar, Fenn, Asajj, Mindlink). It was a faction that had very little strength in depth and when a couple of those key pillars holding it up got knocked away it all but collapsed.

Asajj is the only genuinely great Scum pilot at present and she really lacks a partner anywhere near as strong as she is. That Contracted Scout is probably the #2 Scum pilot even after ALLLLLL the nerfs to the Jumpmaster tells you 1) that the Jumpmaster was clearly bonkers before, and 2) there's not a lot else happening in Scum.

I like playing Scum, my area is very competitive. Feels bad right now man. I used to use Bro-Bots as a fall back, because they were fun and didn't have any bad match ups. That's not really the case anymore, bombs and harpoons give them a bad time.

I've been toying with Scum lists trying to find something solid with out much luck.

Triple Scurggs with harpoons is probably the best thing I've come across, they have so much health that it's difficult to alpha one down before it can shoot and if all three shoot on the same target it will at least be heavily wounded.

I've toyed with Mindlink Fenn, Scout, Viper but bombs or one bad dice roll and the punch of the list goes pop.

I ran Assaj Fenn Inaldra with some success but that was some months ago before Rebel Fenn Rau was really showing up. Scum Fenn feels to flimsy lately.

Until I figure something out for Scum I'll be playing Imperials.

2 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:

Until I figure something out for Scum I'll be playing Imperials.

welcome aboard! Glad to have you serve his Imperial Majesty!

Scum are not in a "bad place"; they are simply not in an "easy place".

There are currently a few lists that are both powerful and easy to use (Nym/Randa, Ghost/Fenn, etc). Scums still have powerful combos, but it takes a bit more thought, planning and foresight to pull them off, that's all.

They're clearly the worst faction, but I'm not super worried for the future. Well, except that they don't appear to have a ship in the next wave, or a second Epic to spice things up.

I think I'd describe Nym, Dengar, and Fenn Rau as "they're not bad, but..." and I think that kinda sums up the faction. Kimogila has 3 red dice instead of 2, and thus is more expensive than (read: worse than) a Gunboat for a Reload ship. Scum have fairly good arc-dodging aces, but they're not as fat, dodgy, or tanky as Kylo Ren. They've got a lot of nice pieces overall, but they don't quite come together like, say, Ghost/Fenn.

Anyhow, over the past few years, I'd probably say both Rebels and Imperials have had a turn in the "they're not bad, but..." seat. And then they got a new ship, or upgrade, or partly just build-philosophy, and they've made it to the top.

3 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

Scum are not in a "bad place"; they are simply not in an "easy place".

There are currently a few lists that are both powerful and easy to use (Nym/Randa, Ghost/Fenn, etc). Scums still have powerful combos, but it takes a bit more thought, planning and foresight to pull them off, that's all.

Scum small ships are in a bad place, and have been for a long time with the outliers being Fenn Rau, Nym and maybe Thweek.

Scum large ships have Asajj, Ketsu, Dengar, Bossk, (maybe Aggressors) and a lot of poor match ups.

It's relative to what the top lists are. Scum doesn't have a list that is on the level of the top five rebel lists or top two or three imperials.

Out of curiosity, what lists have you made cuts with lately? I feel like I have a writer's block when it comes to Scum list building because nothing I put together looks like it can hold up to Ghost-Fenn and Ego and Quickdraw Palp on paper.

37 minutes ago, dotswarlock said:

Scum are not in a "bad place"; they are simply not in an "easy place".

Again, this just isn't true.

Let's compare two broadly similar lists - Scum Nym and Asajj, versus Rebel Nym and Miranda - they both have identical Nyms, save for the bombs, Scum gets bomblet, rebel gets any combination it wants of Ions, Seismics, Thermals, and Protons.

Nym: VI, TLT, EM, Harpoon, Engine, Genius, TSim, and Bomblet/Discardable bombs. These are broadly the same ship in terms of power level. Scum Nym keeps his bombs indefinitely, Rebel has more and more reliable options (and potentially Sabine, though not in this comparison for reasons TBD), Rebel threatens more table space, but Scum can fly into his own TSim and detonate it without issue.

They both have a kitey point fortress - Mira for Rebels, Asajj for Scum.

Asajj has the build above - Lone Wolf, Stim, Stim, CM, Latts

Mira has TLT, C-3PO, LRS, Harpoon, EM, Bomblet.

So, let's compare the two:

PS: Obviously, Mira wins.

Points: Asajj costs more, but she gives up half points. So Mira's list has more to throw around in Nym's bombs, and she wins if she gets Asajj to half, but Asajj has to actually kill Mira in that instance.

Alpha strike: Mira wins hands down. 5 dice harpoon is the epitome of the alpha, Asajj has no better alpha than her normal attack.

Continual damage: Pretty much a wash - Mira has the TLT which is WAY more reliable, but Asajj can crit and do spike damage.

Firing area: Asajj has 50% of a large base, Mira has 100% of a small base. Mira wins.

Arc dodging: Mira wins. She can actually do it. Asajj has some ability at this if you outguess your opponent, but no way to do it with actions.

HP: Asajj has higher max, Mira has regen. I give this one to Mira.

Control: yeah, Asajj wins this one pretty hard, she threatens stress control over a huge area, and if she doesn't need to spend it, can potentially stack a lot of stress, whereas Mira only has area control.

Tanking: this is the big one. Catch Mira, and she can be killed in one round, pretty trivially, whereas Asajj is called Timewalk for a reason - though Mira has 3PO which is action-free, and regen. So this one goes to Asajj on paper. BUT. Mira has very little ground from which she can be approached. Asajj you can catch at r3, approach from the front, and approach from the rear. Mira has 5 dice Harpoons on the joust, bomblets to defend the rear, and SLAM to clear range if she's under threat from other angles, and she can regen the damage back. If you catch Asajj on the hop, she'll survive for two rounds, but she gets a lot less strong after that. Mira just keeps going and going, and if you don't kill her when you catch her, you're unlikely to get another chance.

Overall, Miranda is just a better ship. Not just easier, better. She has more strong points, and is better at them, than Asajj is, and she adds more to the list than Asajj does. So if you want to run Nym with a tanky points fortress... you're better off running Nym/Randa than Nym/Sajj. By far.

It's pretty much an objective assessment. There's opinion in there, but it's well founded.

Miranda is still the best ship in the game.

17 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:

Scum small ships are in a bad place, and have been for a long time with the outliers being Fenn Rau, Nym and maybe Thweek.

Scum large ships have Asajj, Ketsu, Dengar, Bossk, (maybe Aggressors) and a lot of poor match ups.

It's relative to what the top lists are. Scum doesn't have a list that is on the level of the top five rebel lists or top two or three imperials.

Out of curiosity, what lists have you made cuts with lately? I feel like I have a writer's block when it comes to Scum list building because nothing I put together looks like it can hold up to Ghost-Fenn and Ego and Quickdraw Palp on paper.

Top 8 :

- 4 X : Kimogilas with long range scanner

- Sunny with Light Scyk.

Finished 5 wins and 1 defeat with the 2nd largest MOV. Lost in the top 8 due to lack of planning vs Nym/Miranda. Should have planned more for the meta, but otherwise, the list worked great.

Scum are what, making 13% of the top cut, and I think that's the worst any faction has ever performed. And yet there's still people in here saying "scum isn't bad".

2 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

Top 8 :

- 4 X : Kimogilas with long range scanner

- Sunny with Light Scyk.

Finished 5 wins and 1 defeat with the 2nd largest MOV. Lost in the top 8 due to lack of planning vs Nym/Miranda. Should have planned more for the meta, but otherwise, the list worked great.

Nice work. Enough beef there to give you time to get the damage in. After buying three Scurggs I don't know if I want three more Kimos though lol. You spread them out of fly loose formation?

I've had some success with triple Scurggs, 5-0 in swiss at a store champ and then made it to top 4, but quad TLT Aggressors are a really tough match up (a reasonably strong counter) that was common last summer-fall when I was running them. You have to guess right on maneuvers, but even then natty evades on their green dice have a strong chance to ruin your match early.

Are scum small ships weak because they only have 1 shield or is it just their durability in general?

I just watched the new solo trailer and I did not spot anything that fits scum other than the new falcon, hopefully the movie has a scum small ship hidden away somewhere.

4 hours ago, Burius1981 said:

Nice work. Enough beef there to give you time to get the damage in. After buying three Scurggs I don't know if I want three more Kimos though lol. You spread them out of fly loose formation?

I've had some success with triple Scurggs, 5-0 in swiss at a store champ and then made it to top 4, but quad TLT Aggressors are a really tough match up (a reasonably strong counter) that was common last summer-fall when I was running them. You have to guess right on maneuvers, but even then natty evades on their green dice have a strong chance to ruin your match early.

Here's the battle report that I made:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/272247-reaching-the-top-8-with-kimogilas-a-regional-story/

I mostly flew them in loose formation. 4 Bullseye arcs can be a pain to dodge and all those target locks and focuses can be downright scary.

7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

They're clearly the worst faction, but I'm not super worried for the future. Well, except that they don't appear to have a ship in the next wave, or a second Epic to spice things up.

*cough*

I mean, if we don't have any announcement by next Friday (supposedly all tie-in toys will be announced by then - we're expecting another Imperial, too, after all), sure, then worry. At the moment, it seems pretty certain Scum is getting something.

9 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

@Crimsonwarlock just took 4 Starvipers plus Sunny to 5-1. Starvipers are very good.

Peoples be saying that Asajj is Scums best pilot. This is not true anymore. Thweek is best. He is easily the most points efficient ace in the game. (the standard fire-control build is 30 points!) Now of course current results show that building a winning Scum list is hard right now. It's almost exclusively Rebel regen & Rebel Sheathipede holding back Scum. Once those get FAQed Scum should perform on par with Imperials & Rebels.

I am solely a casual player so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

22 ships total for Rebels

20 ships total for Imperials

And

17 ships total for Scum.

This is not counting Imperials new ship coming out in the next wave. So that puts scum right now 3 to 5 ships behind the other 2 factions in number of ships alone. This gives Scum less pieces to build list with and when until last summer most of the small ships were in need of fixing, and some still are (misthunter) is it any wonder that the scum players swarmed to the couple of super strong large base ships. Till they got swatted with the nerf hammer that is. If you want to see more diverse scum builds then reach into legends and pluck out some additional building blocks for us to play with.

3 hours ago, Dengar5 said:

Peoples be saying that Asajj is Scums best pilot. This is not true anymore. Thweek is best. He is easily the most points efficient ace in the game. (the standard fire-control build is 30 points!) Now of course current results show that building a winning Scum list is hard right now. It's almost exclusively Rebel regen & Rebel Sheathipede holding back Scum. Once those get FAQed Scum should perform on par with Imperials & Rebels.

Thweek is practically 32-33 points since it doesn't really work without a bid. Even when it does work, it's just a 3 dice primary with no pilot ability one repositioning action and a target lock. While that is still good, it stopped being anything special a while ago.

I also think no FAQ will bring Scum in line with Empire and Rebels, unless they un-nerf something, which FFG has never done. Even if the top dogs for Rebels (Miranda and Fenn) get nerfed, Rebels still have a bunch of '2nd tier'pilots like Dash, Poe or Nym that are still better than anything Scum can muster.

I swear to god this was the same discussion last time when Palp and x7 got nerfed ... and a few expansions back when Phantom was broken, or Fat Han was broken, or TIE swarm was broken ...

Scum has options, just nothing really juicy and overpowered and "cheesy easy". Scum is definitely struggling, but most people flock to easy street (rebels) so of course Scum is gonna do worse when less people take them.

Captain Jostero (24) w/ Deadeye (1), Harpoon Missiles (4), Contraband Cybernetics (1), Munitions Failsafe (1), Guidance Chips (0), Vaksai (0)

Torani Kulda (27) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Harpoon Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)

Captain Nym (Scum) (30) w/ Veteran Instincts (1), Autoblaster Turret (2), Harpoon Missiles (4), Bomblet Generator (3), Trajectory Simulator (1), "Genius" (0), Guidance Chips (0), Havoc (0)

Total: 100

A similar list made top 16 or 8 in system open and I think top2 in regionals barely losing to Ghost/Fenn. Ive been flying this and it stands up to everything.

Options like these are out there. It actually takes flying skill, and strategy, but even in my losses I never felt it was the list that sucked.

Asajj/Bossk w/ jabba is legit as well.

Im surprised Maul hasnt made a splash in scum since it is easier to include without ezra cost.

I think if you have the possibility to put Dengar as crew on a ship there is no real reason to take Maul instead. The only thing I can think of is Maul on Dengar (Pilot).

42 minutes ago, wurms said:

of course Scum is gonna do worse when less people take them.

That's not entirely true IMO. If that was the case, you'd see a small % of Scum lists entering tournaments, but a similar percent in the cut. The fact that there's a noticeably smaller % in the cut hints that even people who do bring Scum are struggling to not perform below average with their lists.

Scum is in very bad spot right now, but as it's usually second choice faction, players just switched to Rebels and Imperials, so we don't hear much complaints.

Statistics don't lie - Scum are underrepresented and underperformed.

Single successes with Scum lists (similar to mentioned before 3 Kimogilas and Thweek) are combination of skill/luck/surprise factor.

10 hours ago, Dengar5 said:

Peoples be saying that Asajj is Scums best pilot. This is not true anymore. Thweek is best. He is easily the most points efficient ace in the game. (the standard fire-control build is 30 points!) Now of course current results show that building a winning Scum list is hard right now. It's almost exclusively Rebel regen & Rebel Sheathipede holding back Scum. Once those get FAQed Scum should perform on par with Imperials & Rebels.

Thweek is mediocre at best. Being max PS isn't that amazing when you're only getting one token for defence or attack to back it up.

I've tried him a bunch, and he just dies, trivially.

Guri is a FAR better SV pilot, and even she's not top tier.