It just seems like there is little variety in scum lists that do well.

Lots of scum ships see no play in tournaments.

10 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

It just seems like there is little variety in lists that do well in tournaments.

Nothing new for a competitive game, keep cool and play the ships you like.

Pretty much the only top tier Scum ship at the moment is Asajj, and without anyone else truly outstanding to fly with her, she can't hold her own.

It's not going to stop me trying though; I went 5-0 in the UK system open with her, Guri and Sunny, and I didn't lose her once. Might have been able to go 6-0, but it was already gone 8pm and I was halfway dead.

I'm hoping she'll pair well with the Inevitable Scum Falcon.

Hyper Space Qualifiers had a scum list in the finals, it even had a G1A!

... what happened to scum nym, dengar, asajj ketsu, 3 kimogila, 3scurgg, bumpmasters?

Readily honest, all the scum small ships are overshadowed by the awful overpowered large, medium super upgraded ships. Scum and Rebel large and medium ships are just too obviously strong.

I'd say yes. According to one of the podcasts (haven't crunched the numbers myself) Scum is both underrepresented (there's less than 33% Scum lists entering tournaments) and underperforming (there's a smaller % of Scum lists in cuts than.at the start of tournaments).

My personal experience has been similar. I ran Scum almost exclusively until the last round of nerfs. Then I switched to Rebels because I was unable to find a Scum list that wasn't strictly worse than Dash/Miranda (in my hands at least). In the meantime Rebels got better (thanks to the Sheatipede and several other cards) why Scum largely didn't, so the gap is even wider.

8 minutes ago, FrightfulCommand said:

... what happened to scum nym, dengar, asajj ketsu, 3 kimogila, 3scurgg, bumpmasters?

Readily honest, all the scum small ships are overshadowed by the awful overpowered large, medium super upgraded ships. Scum and Rebel large and medium ships are just too obviously strong.

Scum Nym: relied heavily on Genius Bomblet to Not Die. Without that he's lost his best trick for keeping people off his butt. You could probably pair him OK with Timewalk, though - albeit, I've not seen it done yet, probably because he's still kinda pricey to fit with a ship that costs 50+ points, when his minimum viable price is somewhere in the order of 50 himself.

Dengar: dropped out of top tier when they over-nerfed the Jumpmaster - without Unhinged, the dial is actually penalised enough that K4 Expertise doesn't work very well, and without torps he completely lost his big alpha punch. I was really hopign they might add one or both slots back in with the title but twas not to be - yet at least.

Ketsu is solid but again, not top tier - she doesn't have the survivability, and she lacks amazing wingmates. Double casters can definitely make waves though, and Ketsu Bossk is a solid list with a few very bad matchups that really hurt it. I ran it for a while this time last year, without a vast amount of success.

3 Kimos was never good to the best of my knowledge. Deadeye harpoons are a one-trick pony, and Kimos are pretty easy to PS kill, with lists with Black One and/or Countermeasures you can typically limit them to only one Harpoon being fired at best - kill the lock from one, PS kill one, arc dodge or range control one - and with Kimos in particular, they get screwed up once they have to turn round. Ditto Scurrgs, though they can use outlaw tech and turrets to avoid the turning-around issue.

Bumpmasters are still the best blockers in the game, but the 2-dice-with-focus that they normally get just doesn't cut it in offense terms, so they don't synergise well with Asajj, who is also a little limp offensively.

And last but definitely not least, Asajj - she's by far and away the best ship Scum have at the moment, and she does it all by being **** near impossible to kill with Lone Wolf, Latts, Stim, Stim, Countermeasures. But her big weakness is that she's usually only attacking with 3 dice with focus, maybe Lone Wolf late on, and she's therefore just not able to break hard targets alone - so she needs to win by being worth more points. Which she can do, of course.

But she needs wingmates with lower or equal PS than her (to take advantage of the title) and a lot of punch. And what few wingmates Scum do have that meet both those criteria, are mostly VERY vulnerable to being PS killed.

I've been running her with Linked Battery Sunny Bounder, who's probably the best 18 points you can spend in Scum, but does fold to focus fire, and either Intensity Guri or a Scout with Trick Shot and Dengar, either of which can work but neither of which fits the good definition of punch.

But it's super risky bringing really punchy ships - like Jostero, for instance - because the amount of alpha available in opposing lists can trivially wipe them off the board before they can fire in a lot of cases.

23 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Scum Nym: relied heavily on Genius Bomblet to Not Die. Without that he's lost his best trick for keeping people off his butt. You could probably pair him OK with Timewalk, though - albeit, I've not seen it done yet, probably because he's still kinda pricey to fit with a ship that costs 50+ points, when his minimum viable price is somewhere in the order of 50 himself.

I've had a fair bit of success with this list. Load Nym up with AC, Harpoons, Ion bombs, Thermals, genius, chips, TLT, VI, tittle and EM. Run Ventress with LW, Razzi, double glitter and countermeasures. My original version had Advanced Sensors in the system slot which made for some fantastic bombing fun but I found Nym's damage output was overall pretty bad so I switched out for Accuracy Corrector and it helped. A lot. This list still has a really hard time punching hard though. I went 4-1 (with my 1 loss being in final salvo) at a tournament in a gaming convention in he UK BUT I only managed this because I ion bombed 2 large base ships off the board in my games. Without wiping them off the board with full health; I would have lost those games on points. I've since been trying to take down Fenn/Ghost with it and it's frustrating; I've got close but eventually Ventress' green dice let you down.

Scum are not in a fantastic position in terms of the competitive meta game right now but IMHO they have some of the most fun tricks and shenanigans to play with

Yeah, Scum’s in the dog house this cycle. There will always be an underdog faction, though to this level is undesirable.

Still, they do have interesting options and I will continue to fly them. Been really enjoying flying a Fenn Rau, Thweek, and “Dalan Oberos” list in the regular weekly games, and look forward to taking it to a kit tournament when those start popping up in my area.

I'm currently 7-0 with a Thweek/Guri/Manaroo attani list that's really fun to fly. Most games have been in league matches, so not very competitive, but I even won a small tournament kit (14 players) a few weeks ago.

19 minutes ago, RoockieBoy said:

I'm currently 7-0 with a Thweek/Guri/Manaroo attani list that's really fun to fly. Most games have been in league matches, so not very competitive, but I even won a small tournament kit (14 players) a few weeks ago.

What's the list?

45 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Yeah, Scum’s in the dog house this cycle. There will always be an underdog faction, though to this level is undesirable.

What puzzles me somewhat is that people, in general, seem to be way more chill accepting this than they were before when Empire or Rebels were the underdog.

Maybe Scum is less popular or maybe people are finally accepting that this is how x-wing works.

5 minutes ago, Dengars Toilet Paper said:

What's the list?

97 points to make (almost) sure Thweek moves last. Manaroo zooms and blocks. If I get the ion off, you're getting the rigged cargo next turn as well.

I really love Guri and Manaroo's attani shenanigans. Manaroo tries to provide tokens for a very slippery Thweek that otherwise would hit like a wet noodle...

It's not very top, but I've been able to beat quite a variety of lists. Miranda hates being Ion'd plus double stressed...

Faction balance leads to the dark times. As a player I want gameplay mechanic balance first.

I saw a ton of Scum at Saturday's CaC event. I know that second place went to a Scum player (1st was, I believe, was a 100pt Miranda list) Scum might not be the top dog at most competitive events, but they're still out there. I'd hazard a guess that most players that play Scum are just going for similar, but more effective, Rebel lists for competitive play.

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

What puzzles me somewhat is that people, in general, seem to be way more chill accepting this than they were before when Empire or Rebels were the underdog.

Maybe Scum is less popular or maybe people are finally accepting that this is how x-wing works.

There is definitely examples of both options out and about. I personally fall into the latter category, though I do think efforts can and should be made to make the gap between the better preforming factions and the underdog less severe.

Another part of it on my end at least is the “it’s not as bad as before” mentality. Despite Scum’s current condition, I still think that Imps had it worse last summer, as well as how the Rebs were during the Deadeye torpboat reign. That doesn’t really excuse their current condition, but it has made me somewhat more lenient when looking at the situation. But, as time goes on, that sense of leniency is abating.

If we're really looking at things, it's really that one faction is dominating. I think that, while Rebels are able to take advantage of some strong cards (bombs, tlt, harpoons), what's pushing them over the top is their end game ability as it relates to tournament scoring. Almost all of the top rebel lists have the ability to have a large number of points in a small ship that is maneuverable and can regen and/or often have other damage mitigation.

Imperials have a couple of top tier competitive lists but that is because QD provides the firepower to punch through those damage mitigating point fortresses. Kylo plays a very similar game to those rebel archtypes but without as many tools to survive or damage ships while doing so.

Yes.

Scum was bad, then FFG made scum OP, then FFG removed the OP stuff, now Scum is bad.

12 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Yes.

Scum was bad, then FFG made scum OP, then FFG removed the OP stuff, now Scum is bad.

Sums up the last two-three years nicely. Scum sucking is probably the natural state of the game.

40 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Yes.

Scum was bad, then FFG made scum OP, then FFG removed the OP stuff, now Scum is bad.

Yeah, Scum is bad because it doesn't have the tools to compete with the current rebel metagame. Take QD out of imperials and I think that scum and imperials would be in a similarly bad place.

Scum isn’t bad. They just don’t have any clear OP stuff like before. There will be a combo I’m sure that comes out. Also, for their low overall numbers Scum isn’t a natural draw thematically to players, so if they aren’t clearly OP, then players tend to play Rebels/Empire which are the factions that most likely drew them into the game.

I mean, you have to distinguish hypercompetitive tournament play from what the majority play, ie local tournaments

Scum isn't hypercompetitive anymore because it simply isn't as easy-mode as it once was with superefficient action-independent modifiers and torpscout burst damage. But it's still quite solid

This difference in quality from say ghost Fenn starts to really matter when you're in an incredibly intensive regionals+ atmosphere where you have to do well across a ton of games all the while fighting off dice and fatigue. Only asajj really offers an ease of use that stacks up with current meta giants

Locally, though, I haven't seen anyone having problems doing fine with scum. Asajj, ketsu (fearlessness is fun), Dengar, and the occasional Thweek are all very respectable ships. Even jankier things like Boba are still quite scary when leveraged correctly, and I think scum nym (despite the erratas) still has legs as a ps 10 trajectory simulator that can sit on his bombs

And if you're an xwing God, then hey triple Vipers can still win you regionals

It's not just ease-of-use (though that is obviously a consideration, with a 13-game weekend like some of the majors are now) it also does come down to straight up power levels.

Most of the power Scum ships from recent waves have been nerfed heavily somehow (Nym, Dengar and the Jumpmasters generally) or forced out by powercreep in other areas (Fenn, Teroch).

It's really not an exaggeration to say that Asajj is the only top tier ship left in Scum. They have a good few that are nearly there, though, and nearly there plus luck, skill, and practice can easily win major events.

6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

And if you're an xwing God, then hey triple Vipers can still win you regionals

@Crimsonwarlock just took 4 Starvipers plus Sunny to 5-1. Starvipers are very good.

16 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Locally, though, I haven't seen anyone having problems doing fine with scum. Asajj, ketsu (fearlessness is fun), Dengar, and the occasional Thweek are all very respectable ships. Even jankier things like Boba are still quite scary when leveraged correctly, and I think scum nym (despite the erratas) still has legs as a ps 10 trajectory simulator that can sit on his bombs

Right, generally, the smaller the tournament the more that a player can make up for the differences in list with skilled play, but there are probably some local metas where those points converge and look very much like a hypercompetitive meta.

19 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Scum isn’t bad. They just don’t have any clear OP stuff like before. There will be a combo I’m sure that comes out. Also, for their low overall numbers Scum isn’t a natural draw thematically to players, so if they aren’t clearly OP, then players tend to play Rebels/Empire which are the factions that most likely drew them into the game.

"Bad" is generally competitive speak for not having options for top tier lists. People said exactly the same thing about Imperials last year.