2 minutes ago, bleachorange said:

Zs can do some real damage if someone actually drops $100 on enough packs to mass them.

Inb4 you drop $100 on z95 packs and then you are limited to only 2 per list by a future FAQ

19 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

YV666s might be irrelevant to you but my meta is full of them. I have tried bringing tonnes of tie fighters but the YV's just chew through them! Rebel z95s arent much better. I have tried everything but they eat my squads everytime!

Have you considered a strategy other than charging straight at them?

7 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Have you considered a strategy other than charging straight at them?

What kind of noob do you think I am? I have tried alpha'ing with them but the YVs just hide under flak, I have tried adding Dengar for the counter and leaving them in front of my ships as a screen, I have tried attacking enemy ships instead. Doesnt matter what I do they just die. So yes I have done more than "charge straight in".

Its really hard keeping my screen in front of my ships whilst going speed 3 jousting the enemy juggernaut you know! If I want to run 16 Tie Fighters I should be able to!

YVs need a nerf desperately.

3 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

What kind of noob do you think I am? I have tried alpha'ing with them but the YVs just hide under flak, I have tried adding Dengar for the counter and leaving them in front of my ships as a screen, I have tried attacking enemy ships instead. Doesnt matter what I do they just die. So yes I have done more than "charge straight in".

Its really hard keeping my screen in front of my ships whilst going speed 3 jousting the enemy juggernaut you know! If I want to run 16 Tie Fighters I should be able to!

YVs need a nerf desperately.

but werent you the one promoting them for a while because no one used them? what happened? and why isnt this YV meta seen spreading? all the OP stuff usually does.

Just now, bleachorange said:

but werent you the one promoting them for a while because no one used them? what happened?

No one is. Except gink on occasion.

I've no animus towards Blail, but by the tone of the thread, does this mean Blail is Armada's Alex Jones?

4 minutes ago, Deathseed said:

I've no animus towards Blail, but by the tone of the thread, does this mean Blail is Armada's Alex Jones?

"The FAQ turned the friggin' flotillas GAY!"

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

What kind of noob do you think I am? I have tried alpha'ing with them but the YVs just hide under flak, I have tried adding Dengar for the counter and leaving them in front of my ships as a screen, I have tried attacking enemy ships instead. Doesnt matter what I do they just die. So yes I have done more than "charge straight in".

Its really hard keeping my screen in front of my ships whilst going speed 3 jousting the enemy juggernaut you know! If I want to run 16 Tie Fighters I should be able to!

YVs need a nerf desperately.

Say what now? I'm frankly boggled and impressed that someone is making the 666 work.

Sounds like you run Imperials. If they're hiding under flak, that means they aren't doing anything until they get close. That means, since they're soooooo slow, they're not going to be leaping out and attacking you until you close, so why not just let them be until you get stuck in? Then toss your 16 TIEs at them and just hold them for a turn or two. Your opponent isn't likely to flak if they have ships to shoot.

Or, Howlrunner, Dengar, Soontir, Rudor, Mauler, Zertik, two Advanced, and an Interceptor are 132 points. Keep them at distance 4 of the YVs until you want to engage, then throw them in and guarantee damage + big counters to hold them and then make them die. For extra lulz, put a Gozanti (or an Impetuous Raider I) with Taskmaster Grint on it right behind them.

Alternately, run a big ol' TIE Bomber wing (plus BCC) and hold them back until the turn you're going to engage as above. Then jump them into the teeth of the enemy and bomb until they die. They can only take a max of 8 YVs, and you can fit 14 Bombers in, and they can only kill a max of 4 a turn. Since they're heavy, you just ignore them, and obliterate that ISD with a thousand cuts.

How is it neither of those types of strategies work?

5 minutes ago, Armada Jim said:

Say what now? I'm frankly boggled and impressed that someone is making the 666 work.

Sounds like you run Imperials. If they're hiding under flak, that means they aren't doing anything until they get close. That means, since they're soooooo slow, they're not going to be leaping out and attacking you until you close, so why not just let them be until you get stuck in? Then toss your 16 TIEs at them and just hold them for a turn or two. Your opponent isn't likely to flak if they have ships to shoot.

Or, Howlrunner, Dengar, Soontir, Rudor, Mauler, Zertik, two Advanced, and an Interceptor are 132 points. Keep them at distance 4 of the YVs until you want to engage, then throw them in and guarantee damage + big counters to hold them and then make them die. For extra lulz, put a Gozanti (or an Impetuous Raider I) with Taskmaster Grint on it right behind them.

Alternately, run a big ol' TIE Bomber wing (plus BCC) and hold them back until the turn you're going to engage as above. Then jump them into the teeth of the enemy and bomb until they die. They can only take a max of 8 YVs, and you can fit 14 Bombers in, and they can only kill a max of 4 a turn. Since they're heavy, you just ignore them, and obliterate that ISD with a thousand cuts.

How is it neither of those types of strategies work?

I think there's a massive, zero-point-font "/s" at the end of the original post.

2 hours ago, Arcwelder said:

I think there's a massive, zero-point-font "/s" at the end of the original post.

It's in white font.

9 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

It's in white font.

Yeah it is in my signature, makes things easier

4 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Yeah it is in my signature, makes things easier

I miss signatures. Why did Asmodee nerf THOSE?

2 hours ago, geek19 said:

I miss signatures. Why did Asmodee nerf THOSE?

It was having unintended effects on the forums balance and needed to be adjusted in order to bring it back to where the developers originally visioned it.

On 4/6/2018 at 9:01 PM, Ginkapo said:

YV666s might be irrelevant to you but my meta is full of them. I have tried bringing tonnes of tie fighters but the YV's just chew through them! Rebel z95s arent much better. I have tried everything but they eat my squads everytime!

Could you please post you setup and the one of your opponent you are loosing against? I'm facing the same problem, but the other way around (can't get past his Imperial CAS screen)

On 4/6/2018 at 10:24 AM, Blail Blerg said:

Count em up, now nerfed twice by FAQ, at least 8 ways:

FAQ 1
Rieekan
flotillas no commander (great anime, i suggest watch)
Rhymer (doesn't pertain to rieekan ygh)
BCC no stack

FAQ 2
Yavaris - no moving
Gallant haven - minimum 1
2 flotilla limit
relay - within relay range

Wave 7 120+ squads taken 19% of the time, increases linearly to 56% winrate.

Taking the yavais buffs out of the equation feels as right as knocking rhymer down to short range. I just wish this was done a lot sooner. Didn't feel right that those cards let it get around the debilitating restriction while being as cheap as they are.

Look: I say it beforehand, you all ridicule me. I say it afterward, you accuse me of being sore when right. Realistically, you guys dump and ridicule whatever I say even with data no matter when I say it. I say it nicely and calmly the first few times, but honestly, the data supports me and the FAQ changes have now supported me twice. All I wanted was that you all reassess your givens, look at what ships marginalized (small ships non-flotillas). I foresee responses of "why you have to be so negative". Guess what, I wasn't always negative about this, I was pretty optimistic post-first-great-nerf, I made topics about how Titles made ships like the Neb stay very viable, or how we should get more squadrons. No. I was nice the first time. And I've gotten just awful knee-jerk responses of Blail doesn't know anything.

Here's some data for you @TheCallum. You may have misunderstood me, but this is what you wanted:

39 minutes ago, Baltanok said:

wave 6 data:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NR5jNoKNtDX9qHrMHIpDdFl8OzGSOEi_ELJ5ylvu4u4/edit#gid=134329681

breaking wave 6 fleets down between 3+ smalls (non-flotillas) and 0-2 non-flot smalls gets: (top 4/all)

3+ Small 7/57

0-2 Small 42/185

Excluding 120+ squads, the effect is smaller, but still present:

3+ Small 6/48

0-2 Small 18/119

I definitely agree with @Truthiness opinion that MSU's were in trouble in wave 6, and are currently in trouble in wave 7.

@Ginkapo, fyi you mimic mocked me about my golden age comments after the first nerfing, now we have a second. And you have the data of disparity of what was taken vs what was not right above you. Please stop replying to me like that. If you can't, just don't reply to me.

Look the response that is respectful would be this: Look at what is winning a lot vs what isn't winning. Is there a large discrepancy? Acknowledge it. This is why a bunch of highly respected players stomped off about wave4-5 ash, because of a refusal to ever admit there is anything remotely out of balance with this game. And then, the responses instead become: "git gud", "user error", realistically are just ad Homs.

If you disagree, cool! Do it without mocking mimicry, or mocking gifs, and preferably point out the complexities in the DATA that has been presented. Give counters to YOUR own points, foresee how you're making an observation, not an argument. This isn't speech and debate in school where you get points for being a better arguer.

There are even shades here! Is Blail exaggerating, but there is an alarming trend? Do you see something that could be interesting to discuss?
That's better than: Oh, its Blail. Let's mock him and ignore any points made. The game is fine/

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

why you have to be so negative

If the black glove fits...

Blail a respectful response to the new FAQ would have been:

Thankyou FFG I have wanted this for a long time.

And not the antagonising thing you did write. Dont be upset that we didnt rise to the bait as quite frankly we should have reported your post.

If you want us to be reasonable with you, then you need to be reasonable with us. That means not screaming, "wheres the data", followed by, "I dont like that data", on every thread. It means listening and considering alternative views, as occasionally we all have to admit were wrong, thats what a healthy conversation is.

I can tailor my responses to you, but you need to tailor yours just as much.

Have you heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?

I suppose that if all they want with every nerf were to resolve the "squadrons are OP", ffg could just reduce the 134 limitation.

They didn't so I guess they still don't see the things you see.

@Blail Blerg

Thanks for posting a response.

I’m not sure why my fact I posted, (49% of wave 7 fleet had a non-flotilla small ship) isn’t relevant.

I’d say that was pretty indicative of the fact people are using small ships- Half the players used one!

But I like your fact too. 1/8th of top 4 fleets the previous wave were MSU! That’s great! It shows that the (arguably) most difficult fleet type to use is still able to compete at the top!

On 4/16/2018 at 8:01 PM, Ardaedhel said:

If the black glove fits...

misquoting.

On 4/16/2018 at 11:54 PM, Ginkapo said:

Have you heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Do you always end with an adhom?

You also completely ignore any attempt to discuss the data. Please analyze it. Tell me Yavaris wasn't a problem.

Quoted from Baltanok, but I'm hoping he doesn't mind me removing the quote tag so he doesn't get a massive bother overtime I quote him for data.

here are 4 archetype definitions:

MSU: 3+ small ships, 0 larges, less than 120 squad points, no Yavaris

YX: Yavaris, 120+ squad points (YGH, Yav + Admo, etc)

Other Squad: 120+ squad pts, no Yavaris

Big Iron: 2+ larges, less than 120 squad pts.

here are the results, written as Top 4 finishes / all* entrants

Here's my interpretation for each archetype

YX: over-performing in all waves, with a small, but consistent following.

Other Squad: reasonable to strong performance, chosen by many admirals in all waves.

Big Iron: Underperforming in wave 3/4, but it became reasonable in wave 5, and many admirals picked it up in waves 6 & 7

MSU: Strong performance in wave 3/4, and reasonable in wave 5, but underperforming in wave 6, and both underperforming & under-represented in wave 7.

The archetypes are by no means exhaustive, I picked the definitions as much for ease of filtering as for theme. All entrants means all entrants that had a ranking. If I didn't know where a list ended up, it's not in the results.

On 4/17/2018 at 12:06 AM, ovinomanc3r said:

I suppose that if all they want with every nerf were to resolve the "squadrons are OP", ffg could just reduce the 134 limitation.

They didn't so I guess they still don't see the things you see.

Do you for even a second believe what you just wrote? Seriously?

On 4/17/2018 at 3:47 AM, TheCallum said:

@Blail Blerg

Thanks for posting a response.

I’m not sure why my fact I posted, (49% of wave 7 fleet had a non-flotilla small ship) isn’t relevant.

I’d say that was pretty indicative of the fact people are using small ships- Half the players used one!

But I like your fact too. 1/8th of top 4 fleets the previous wave were MSU! That’s great! It shows that the (arguably) most difficult fleet type to use is still able to compete at the top!

Did you remove for Yavaris? Did you account for MSU?

50% of players only used ONE small ship. Typically around 70 points in 400. Gee.... now ain't that low?

Which wave are you talking about? "1/8th of top 4 fleets the previous wave were MSU!" Can you post the table?

A sheet for you also:

2 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Thanks, @Baltanok.

Whipped this up for my own ease of analysis, throwing it up for anybody else. I just normalized the fractions to decimals and color coded with conditional formatting: red (low) to green (high).

Which previous wave??? Did you mean wave3/4? Last I recall, we're in wave7.

YX + Other Squad comprises literally 86% of the top8. EIGHTY SIX PERCENT of fleets have 120+ squads