36 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

The thread and list that captured hearts and wouldn’t die.

Hey, when it's a list that got me a fourth place finish at a Mandalore Open, I'm sure at **** going to revive it when Wave 2 arrives.

3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Resurrection!

Quickdraw 44 + SF Gunner 10 + Trick Shot 1 + Shield Upgrade 6 + FCS 3 = 64

First Order Test Pilot 62, Optics 4, Fanatical 2 = 68 × 2 = 136

I definitely don't know of this is the right build, but it seems a decent place to start.

The Silencers Fanatical and new Autothrusters probably make up for the loss of old Optics. New Optics helps make up for the loss of old FCS. The loss of old Autothrusters is big, but new I4 is also big, and turrets aren't around.

Quickdraw probably doesn't hit as hard, but still does hit pretty hard, at least.

That is a lovely 201 point list. Did you recently get hired to FFG marketing? 😜

(Quickdraw is 45 points)

7 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Resurrection!

Quickdraw 44 + SF Gunner 10 + Trick Shot 1 + Shield Upgrade 6 + FCS 3 = 64

First Order Test Pilot 62, Optics 4, Fanatical 2 = 68 × 2 = 136

I definitely don't know of this is the right build, but it seems a decent place to start.

The Silencers Fanatical and new Autothrusters probably make up for the loss of old Optics. New Optics helps make up for the loss of old FCS. The loss of old Autothrusters is big, but new I4 is also big, and turrets aren't around.

Quickdraw probably doesn't hit as hard, but still does hit pretty hard, at least.

Quickdraw with fanatical, cuz everyone wants to erase her shields, so make them turn fanatical on so she gets mods for when they erase her last shield.

I like Avenger with torps along with quickdraw cuz if they kill her first, he can torpedo them. I really like avenger!!!

"Quickdraw" (45)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Electronic Baffle (2)

"Avenger" (62)
Fanatical (2)
Advanced Optics (4)
Proton Torpedoes (9)

Sienar-Jaemus Enginner (56)
Advanced Optics (4)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

The old electronic baffle trick. When it works, it works.

I'd kind of been looking forward to Advanced Sensors on Silencers. That was my favorite generic Silencer build back in 1e, SJ Analysts with AdvS, Advanced Optics, and Autothrusters.

I feel like Primed Thrusters could be a lot of fun, however. With the massive suite of passive dice mods these guys used to get being gone, maybe the way to go with them is mobility.

Something which irks me, though: The lowest Init Upsilon Shuttle is higher Init than the new SJ Engineers (what, were they afraid of the first 4 letters of analyst?). I'm sure I'd prefer they were the same initiative. Petty Officer Thanisson might work out well, though, since also Init 1. Coordinate a Focus, pull a red move, still Boost/Barrel Roll.

Hrm.

• First Order Test Pilot (Fanatical, Primed Thrusters) 72
• First Order Test Pilot (Fanatical, Primed Thrusters) 72
  • Same prices as my beloved Delta Defender. It'll dodge arcs better, but isn't quite as tanky.
• Options Options for #3.
  • Seinar Jaemus Engineer ( - ) 56
    • A blocker with a punch.
  • Starkiller Base Pilot ( - ) 56
    • Coordinate and a big gun, but kind of awkward for timing.
  • Quickdraw (Trick Shot, SF Gunner) 56
    • Treating QD like a filler Wedge or Soontir, nearly no upgrades, might be the way to go. They'll still have a lot of potential to pack a punch.

Thoughts on this iteration of our venerable squadron?

New Squadron (193)

"Quickdraw" — TIE/SF Fighter45

Fanatical2

Special Forces Gunner10

Ship Total: 57

Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

"Blackout" — TIE Silencer70

Trick Shot1

Ship Total: 71

Half Points: 36 Threshold: 3

"Recoil" — TIE Silencer63

Predator2

Ship Total: 65

Half Points: 33 Threshold: 3

1 hour ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Thoughts on this iteration of our venerable squadron?

New Squadron (193)

"Quickdraw" — TIE/SF Fighter45

Fanatical2

Special Forces Gunner10

Ship Total: 57

Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3

"Blackout" — TIE Silencer70

Trick Shot1

Ship Total: 71

Half Points: 36 Threshold: 3

"Recoil" — TIE Silencer63

Predator2

Ship Total: 65

Half Points: 33 Threshold: 3

I’ve been thinking in very much the same direction! My only thoughts are that QD loves a shield upgrade (but I think your bid might be equally valuable) and that while trick shot works great with Blackout’s ability, I can’t get over how good fanatical is in the late game. Awesome list!

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can SFs fire Proton Rockets out of their Turrets since they are fired from the bullseye instead of the front arc and the ability specifies front arc?

24 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can SFs fire Proton Rockets out of their Turrets since they are fired from the bullseye instead of the front arc and the ability specifies front arc?

No, they cannot, only front arc missiles.

16 hours ago, urbanyeti said:

I’ve been thinking in very much the same direction! My only thoughts are that QD loves a shield upgrade (but I think your bid might be equally valuable) and that while trick shot works great with Blackout’s ability, I can’t get over how good fanatical is in the late game. Awesome list!

I had always wanted to put Shield Upgrade on QD in 1st ed but I always ended up going with LWF. I forgot in 2nd ed, 2 green dice means it's only 6pts leaving 1 left for a bid. Thanks for the reminder, totally putting it on.

Curious to hear what @Biophysical thinks of this QD build.

QD 2 I4 Silencers (200/200)
==========================
TIE/sf Fighter: "Quickdraw" (45 + 27)
+ Elusive (3)
+ Fire-Control System (3)
+ Pattern Analyzer (5)
+ Special Forces Gunner (10)
+ Shield Upgrade (6)
TIE/vn Silencer: First Order Test Pilot (62 + 2)
+ Fanatical (2)
TIE/vn Silencer: First Order Test Pilot (62 + 2)
+ Fanatical (2)

1 hour ago, DXCrazytrain said:

Curious to hear what @Biophysical thinks of this QD build.

QD 2 I4 Silencers (200/200)
==========================
TIE/sf Fighter: "Quickdraw" (45 + 27)
+ Elusive (3)
+ Fire-Control System (3)
+ Pattern Analyzer (5)
+ Special Forces Gunner (10)
+ Shield Upgrade (6)
TIE/vn Silencer: First Order Test Pilot (62 + 2)
+ Fanatical (2)
TIE/vn Silencer: First Order Test Pilot (62 + 2)
+ Fanatical (2)

I feel like Silencers really like Optics, but I'm a little at a loss,right now about good Quickdraw builds.

12 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I feel like Silencers really like Optics, but I'm a little at a loss,right now about good Quickdraw builds.

I feel you I think you really want those silencers to pull their weight offensively but I have to admit that QuickDraw has everything it needs to be a threat. I was about to reject the elusive but with pattern you can rely on doing a red and locking so you can get fcs going as well as having something for defense since your probably are in someone’s arc so you can threaten the return shot.... but it is a fat QuickDraw and that is scary because him taking damage is part of the plan so your points are always on the line

So the question is and with play testing, who wears the extra points better, the silencers or qd... I feel maybe it should be the silencers but we will see

32 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I feel like Silencers really like Optics, but I'm a little at a loss,right now about good Quickdraw builds.

This might be the most well rounded version I can think of

I use to set up QuickDraw in 1.0 in the back of the two silencers usually begins a cloud or rock in the first engagement anyway so setting up trick shot is pretty easy and very good for the sake of saving those precious shields

37 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I feel like Silencers really like Optics, but I'm a little at a loss,right now about good Quickdraw builds.

I'm not sold on Optics. It eats up your only Focus to change only 1 blank only on attack. Maybe if it only cost 1 or 2 points, but 4 points is far too much for far too little.

28 minutes ago, DXCrazytrain said:

I'm not sold on Optics. It eats up your only Focus to change only 1 blank only on attack. Maybe if it only cost 1 or 2 points, but 4 points is far too much for far too little.

But when you combine it with fanatical it makes 3 hits very possible, when you think one focus is turned to a hit then a black, the famous most average roll is a hit blank and eye, it’s turns that to 3 hits. Considering your never going to target lock with these things that’s pretty good, considering you get attacked and you don’t use the focus, it adds additional value to the token, since your probably going to focus all the time anyway

On 11/29/2018 at 11:41 PM, theBitterFig said:

I'd kind of been looking forward to Advanced Sensors on Silencers. That was my favorite generic Silencer build back in 1e, SJ Analysts with AdvS, Advanced Optics, and Autothrusters.

I feel like Primed Thrusters could be a lot of fun, however. With the massive suite of passive dice mods these guys used to get being gone, maybe the way to go with them is mobility.

Something which irks me, though: The lowest Init Upsilon Shuttle is higher Init than the new SJ Engineers (what, were they afraid of the first 4 letters of analyst?). I'm sure I'd prefer they were the same initiative. Petty Officer Thanisson might work out well, though, since also Init 1. Coordinate a Focus, pull a red move, still Boost/Barrel Roll.

Hrm.

• First Order Test Pilot (Fanatical, Primed Thrusters) 72
• First Order Test Pilot (Fanatical, Primed Thrusters) 72
  • Same prices as my beloved Delta Defender. It'll dodge arcs better, but isn't quite as tanky.
• Options Options for #3.
  • Seinar Jaemus Engineer ( - ) 56
    • A blocker with a punch.
  • Starkiller Base Pilot ( - ) 56
    • Coordinate and a big gun, but kind of awkward for timing.
  • Quickdraw (Trick Shot, SF Gunner) 56
    • Treating QD like a filler Wedge or Soontir, nearly no upgrades, might be the way to go. They'll still have a lot of potential to pack a punch.

A friend and I tested Option 3 of this list and came with the following conclusions:

Fanatical is amazing on these guys of 1/3 their health being shields. The reason why is because you focus for defense, and if too much is stripped from you, you now have a perma-calculate. This ability is strengthened even more when Juke is introduced, as now it takes 2 jukes on you to actually mean anything. It also synergizes well with primed thrusters, as it basically becomes an Adv. Sensors calculate>>red maneuver>>cheat the adv. sensors rule by acting again to reposition.

Quickdraw without coordinates or tricks is very prone to RNG. No fcs means only 1 mod on offense, no juke means you aren't going to hit as hard and get a defensive bonus, and all this adds up to is a mathematical headache as to whether or not you should spend your focus (I'm convinced that the answer is on defense, as Juke turns those 2 [3 if obstructed] dice into a joke). Trickshot helps with the damage output, but don't hope for miracles.

Because Quickdraw is low on tricks, nobody likes an endgame Quickdraw, and stripping the Silencer shields ups their action efficiency and at times encourages them to take locks, Quickdraw starts the game with a rather large target painted on her. This can be worked to an advantage, as the Silencers can flank in and strike at that which is focused on the incoming Quickdraw.

I took a couple fanatical advanced optic PS4's for a test run today, I'm thinking they're great, but just don't know what to use as a 3rd ship. Where I lack both experience and joy in the game is quickdraw. I don't really like the ship unfortunately. Before she was this huge beatstick that couldn't be ignored. I ran quickdraw today with:

Quickdraw/Elusive/FCS/Homing Missle/SF Gunner - 64 points

I rounded out at 200. All 3 games I was up against "aces". First game was Poe/Lulu/Nien Nunb X, and I was able to force blocks with one of the silencers and use the other and QD to hammer on the target. They're SO FAST and can still do the 5 straight, boost, barrel roll to get somewhere wildly outside where something thinks you can go with them. I was able to use the speed, as well as the upgrades (just focus!) to make sure if they were fanatical, an "average roll" would be 3 or 4 hits assuming blank/focus/hit (or two hits). Second game was vs Boba/Guri and I got both at time. He didn't really want to shoot quickdraw and I wasted a homing missle charge on Boba. It wasn't a great shot, but I thought that one guaranteed damage was better than 3 dice through a rock of regular shot (NOBODY wanted to take a 4 dice shot from Quickdraw). 3rd game I was up against Whisper/Fel/Punisher and I forced bumps on Whisper to erase her, got the punisher to within 2 health of dying, and Fel was running free. It really could have gone either way with dice. I probably could have flown a little better as well. One turn I forced a block on Fel and could have done the double shot from QD at Range 1 had I fully commited on Fel, might have changed the game. I went after Redline instead. Good to know going forward.

So what else could sub in for that last 64 points? Phasma on an Upsilon? The silencers don't really need coordinated anything but I guess it could be pretty tricky. Quickdraw is a great choice for those that have more experience, but how would you build her out? I'm also wildly curious as to if anyone has tried this list vs a swarm of any kind...

4 hours ago, Jyico said:

I took a couple fanatical advanced optic PS4's for a test run today, I'm thinking they're great, but just don't know what to use as a 3rd ship. Where I lack both experience and joy in the game is quickdraw. I don't really like the ship unfortunately. Before she was this huge beatstick that couldn't be ignored. I ran quickdraw today with:

Quickdraw/Elusive/FCS/Homing Missle/SF Gunner - 64 points

I rounded out at 200. All 3 games I was up against "aces". First game was Poe/Lulu/Nien Nunb X, and I was able to force blocks with one of the silencers and use the other and QD to hammer on the target. They're SO FAST and can still do the 5 straight, boost, barrel roll to get somewhere wildly outside where something thinks you can go with them. I was able to use the speed, as well as the upgrades (just focus!) to make sure if they were fanatical, an "average roll" would be 3 or 4 hits assuming blank/focus/hit (or two hits). Second game was vs Boba/Guri and I got both at time. He didn't really want to shoot quickdraw and I wasted a homing missle charge on Boba. It wasn't a great shot, but I thought that one guaranteed damage was better than 3 dice through a rock of regular shot (NOBODY wanted to take a 4 dice shot from Quickdraw). 3rd game I was up against Whisper/Fel/Punisher and I forced bumps on Whisper to erase her, got the punisher to within 2 health of dying, and Fel was running free. It really could have gone either way with dice. I probably could have flown a little better as well. One turn I forced a block on Fel and could have done the double shot from QD at Range 1 had I fully commited on Fel, might have changed the game. I went after Redline instead. Good to know going forward.

So what else could sub in for that last 64 points? Phasma on an Upsilon? The silencers don't really need coordinated anything but I guess it could be pretty tricky. Quickdraw is a great choice for those that have more experience, but how would you build her out? I'm also wildly curious as to if anyone has tried this list vs a swarm of any kind...

I think although QuickDraw isn’t as good as it was, is still the best choice for the list, the upsilon just isn’t mobile enough to keep up with the silencers and the f/os just don’t offer the punch

as for qd loadout, I’d say drop homing and maybe even elusive for pattern, qd has always been so much better when he doesn’t worry about his red moves

Quickdraw" — TIE/SF Fighter45Pattern Analyzer5Special Forces Gunner10Fire-Control System3Ship Total: 63Half Points: 32 Threshold: 3

First Order Test Pilot — TIE/VN Silencer62Fanatical2Ship Total: 64Half Points: 32 Threshold: 3

First Order Test Pilot — TIE/VN Silencer62Fanatical2Ship Total: 64Half Points: 32 Threshold: 3

this is the skeleton of the list I believe and it sits at 191, so you have 9 points to flavor the way you want

you could go shield on qd with fanatical or elusive or trick shot, or go for advanced options on the silencers and trick shot on qd, either way I think pattern goes a long way on qd

6 hours ago, TheOz said:

I think although QuickDraw isn’t as good as it was, is still the best choice for the list, the upsilon just isn’t mobile enough to keep up with the silencers and the f/os just don’t offer the punch

as for qd loadout, I’d say drop homing and maybe even elusive for pattern, qd has always been so much better when he doesn’t worry about his red moves

Quickdraw" — TIE/SF Fighter45Pattern Analyzer5Special Forces Gunner10Fire-Control System3Ship Total: 63Half Points: 32 Threshold: 3

First Order Test Pilot — TIE/VN Silencer62Fanatical2Ship Total: 64Half Points: 32 Threshold: 3

First Order Test Pilot — TIE/VN Silencer62Fanatical2Ship Total: 64Half Points: 32 Threshold: 3

this is the skeleton of the list I believe and it sits at 191, so you have 9 points to flavor the way you want

you could go shield on qd with fanatical or elusive or trick shot, or go for advanced options on the silencers and trick shot on qd, either way I think pattern goes a long way on qd

Quick Draw has been so far very disappointing for me. It seems that he really needed all those 1.0 passive mods to be an actual threat. Without those he tends to die super fast and not really do that much damage..

I'm now looking at Backdraft as a possible replacement.

The fact that BD is also that much cheaper (while allowing for a lot of customization based on your preferences) allows to upgrade the Silencers to unique pilots:

Backdraft + SF Gunner + Trick Shot = 52

Recoil + Predator = 65

Blackout + Trick Shot = 71

Which sums up to 188 points and leaves points for futher customization..

You could fit even Kylo into the list with Recoil and Backdraft, but that would require some compromises.

Some simple stats about Quickdraw's attack, since I haven't seen this posted yet.

Let's assume Quickdraw is attacking a target in range 2, who has 2 green dice and focus.

Let's see the expected damage from shot + revenge shot:

1) 1.0 Quickdraw + 1.0 Fire Control Systems + Expertise -> 3.351 expected damage

2) 2.0 Quickdraw + 2.0 Fire Control Systems (reroll 1 die on first shot, spend lock on 2nd shot) -> 1.770 expected damage

3) Same as 2, but with a coordinated Focus for the first shot -> 2.334 expected damage

This numbers are really, really sad.

It shows that Quickdraw has completely pathetic damage output on his own, and even with a coordinated focus he's still very bad compared to his 1.0 peak form.

6 minutes ago, baranidlo said:

Some simple stats about Quickdraw's attack, since I haven't seen this posted yet.

Let's assume Quickdraw is attacking a target in range 2, who has 2 green dice and focus.

Let's see the expected damage from shot + revenge shot:

1) 1.0 Quickdraw + 1.0 Fire Control Systems + Expertise -> 3.351 expected damage

2) 2.0 Quickdraw + 2.0 Fire Control Systems (reroll 1 die on first shot, spend lock on 2nd shot) -> 1.770 expected damage

3) Same as 2, but with a coordinated Focus for the first shot -> 2.334 expected damage

This numbers are really, really sad.

It shows that Quickdraw has completely pathetic damage output on his own, and even with a coordinated focus he's still very bad compared to his 1.0 peak form.

Did you factor in that the opponent taking the shot would have spent their focus on only one shot? Also what’s their mod for offense when they attack you? I think it’s not quite as simple as you laid out.

You also have to remember it’s good for the game that qd can’t just high mod a double attack, and actually most ships can’t quite do the same damage as first edition, so the comparison doesn’t really fit

now what you should do is compare quickdraws damage output to other ships in the first order...which I believe he has the best possible damage stats, any other silencer or s/f that has a single mod that you put in this squad isn’t going to do more damage then he can simply because you have the possibility of two attacks and you have fcs to help mod both attacks.

If you look up the average damage backdraft can do or another silencer it will probably be lower then qd simply because he is capable of two attacks with some level of modding

another thing is you can have focus and the fcs reroll pretty often, don’t spend the target lock unless you know it can be the kill shot, otherwise don’t spend it so your free to focus every turn or roll if you need to.

Then there is pattern analyzer, which allows you to roll up, attack, then sloop and still get your action, or red one hard, it works beautifully with qd(I loved it in first edition before optics came out)

also qd works best when he is played almost without worry, but patient. you gotta get him in a good threatening position so your opponent feel the need to attack him...even at range one. I often would roll up with a range 3 through debris shot, then rush him into range one the next turn.

Then there is the silencers...yes they feel great but they took a bigger hit then even QuickDraw, so I don’t think putting more points into them is worth it at all. Just make them work, fanatical and maybe optics, and that’s it. Keep it simple because they are not the end game ships they once were, killer blockers that can hit and take some shots...but against a higher ps ace they are probably not gonna touch them...

the goal of this list was always use QuickDraw to help kill their higher ps threat then save the silencers to clean up and maintain points...

overall this list type is nothing like its first edition version, both ships are not as good as they were in first edition

Ppl are flying QD like his old self but he's NOT his old self.

Things he got worst at: jousting (defensively), jousting (offensively)

Things he got better at: higher Initiative, better dial.

Dont play FCS. Don't joust. Play Advanced Sensors, flank & arc-dodge.

1 hour ago, baranidlo said:

Some simple stats about Quickdraw's attack, since I haven't seen this posted yet.

Let's assume Quickdraw is attacking a target in range 2, who has 2 green dice and focus.

Let's see the expected damage from shot + revenge shot:

1) 1.0 Quickdraw + 1.0 Fire Control Systems + Expertise -> 3.351 expected damage

2) 2.0 Quickdraw + 2.0 Fire Control Systems (reroll 1 die on first shot, spend lock on 2nd shot) -> 1.770 expected damage

3) Same as 2, but with a coordinated Focus for the first shot -> 2.334 expected damage

This numbers are really, really sad.

It shows that Quickdraw has completely pathetic damage output on his own, and even with a coordinated focus he's still very bad compared to his 1.0 peak form.

Yeah, but juke is a thing. And hyper-defence no longer is one. A 1.0 QD in 2.0 would cost a minimum of 85 pts kitted out.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

Ppl are flying QD like his old self but he's NOT his old self.

Things he got worst at: jousting (defensively), jousting (offensively)

Things he got better at: higher Initiative, better dial.

Dont play FCS. Don't joust. Play Advanced Sensors, flank & arc-dodge.

I have put some thought in that direction, and advanced sensors could be good as opposed to pattern, do you think afterburners is worth it on him

3 hours ago, TheOz said:

now what you should do is compare quickdraws damage output to other ships in the first order...which I believe he has the best possible damage stats

No, we need to compare Quickdraw with other top of the line Hyperspace ships like Boba, Poe, Fenn, etc.

All those ships are pretty much as good or even better than they were in 1.0.

Many of them are easily capable of fully modified 3-4 dice attacks.

Quickdraw was a top dog in 1.0 and they have nerfed him super hard, but the top 2.0 ships are pretty much on 1.0 power level still... (at least dice modification-wise).

3 hours ago, TheOz said:

Then there is the silencers...yes they feel great but they took a bigger hit then even QuickDraw, so I don’t think putting more points into them is worth it at all. Just make them work, fanatical and maybe optics, and that’s it. Keep it simple because they are not the end game ships they once were, killer blockers that can hit and take some shots...but against a higher ps ace they are probably not gonna touch them...

Actually I believe Silencers got a boost in 2.0 with the built-in linked action, free EPT slot and interesting abilities.

There could be some debate made about their pure point cost effectiveness, but so far I liked them the most from all the FO ships..