Elemental Cycle & Scorpion Pack Spoilers

By Tonbo Karasu, in Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game

In O5R usually there were story prizes for winning tournaments, some of which resulted in cards, but as I recall those cards were not on the whole consistently good or bad, so the effect of winning tournaments on the card pool and thus strength of any specific clan was somewhat limited, at least when I played in Diamond and Lotus. Often the result was just a flavor card, a piece of flavor text, or something like “Costs 1 less gold for X clan players.”

I remember Phoenix got Kaneka as an in-clan personality after winning the last GenCon in Gold Edition (I think I got that right?) When Kaneka came out he was a powerhouse of a military character, but Phoenix didn’t really have a military deck at the time and it appeared that he wasn’t designed with any Phoenix themes in mind, so he mainly saw play in other clans, as most dynasty characters were legal for play in any faction’s deck in O5R provided you met honor requirements (and there was no equivalent of conflict characters.)

The problem in O5R is that story prizes were numerous and varied and, as they hinged on tournament results, somewhat strange and random at times (see Kaneka joining the Phoenix, above.) In this respect FFG has done a good job of clearly limiting story results to choosing between sensible pre-written scenarios.

On 6/29/2018 at 4:46 PM, Hordeoverseer said:

The common counter argument is that apparently all Clans will pick the same role and we'll only see the same cards. Roles would allow for different cards to be use (even if before of lack of choice).

I kind of wished the choice order was reversed where the weakest clan got first choice. The rich getting richer is kind of lousy.

Its also a downright brainless argument. If every clans end up with the same 2-3 roles, MABYE, JUST MABYE the problem is in the roles and not the fact everyone has access to these roles. The drama only just began about this too, ffg gona need to pull its head out of its *** eventually. Last time there was drama and the roles pick barelly mattered because no clan even had a full real deck. Now take pheonix for example, people playing dishonor want a keeper role, probably keeper of air. But people playing conquest pheonix want any kind of seeker, preferably void or fire. Who ever gets to pick this role, gl. You are killing one part of your own clan community because ffg forces you to. Im sure there will be no drama when one player has to decide which decks are viable within a clan and which decks become obsolete. The bigger the card pool with more different deck per clan with all those role locked cards, the more this thing will cause drama. I dont think FFG actually think these thing using any kind of brain matter.

Its like they did not have the balls to create a card rotation, so instead of doing it themselves, they got this brilliant idea, lets force players to do it for us. So that the community can be as toxic to one another as possible. But it wont be our fault.

Edited by mintek917

The role lock is by far the thing most likely to make me drop this game. Luckily I like Phoenix's current role. But if I get to a point where I don't want to play any tournaments because I don't like any of the decks I would need to play...

I'm curious, what do you like about Phoenix's Keeper of Water? I stopped playing initiates a long time ago, and now only really play Along the River of Gold, and it's not that great to me anyways. Are you running with Backhanded Compliment for the dishonor build?

Personally, I think it would have been neat if the Elemental Masters were role-locked to their specific element as well. I really like the system, but I guess I'm mostly a casual player.

Edited by AradonTemplar
31 minutes ago, AradonTemplar said:

I'm curious, what do you like about Phoenix's Keeper of Water? I stopped playing initiates a long time ago, and now only really play Along the River of Gold, and it's not that great to me anyways. Are you running with Backhanded Compliment for the dishonor build?

Personally, I think it would have been neat if the Elemental Masters were role-locked to their specific element as well. I really like the system, but I guess I'm mostly a casual player.

Keeper Initiate is a really strong card. When you care about winning a particular ring, Keeper of that element is absolutely the way to go. I also often change to water with Elemental Fury so the fate for winning on defense is good.

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 4:20 AM, psychie said:

I think one solution that could easily help is instead of every clan picking one role at worlds, every clan picks two, and the first picks are done in order of standing, and the second picks are done in reverse order. The second round of picks would open up all ten roles again, this way, if there are in fact 3 strongest roles that will get picked immediately no matter what, this opens it up so that the three weakest clans get access to them as well as the 3 strongest. Lock it so that you can't have the same role 2 years in a row, just as before, and let's say something like both roles cannot share an element, so as to spread around the elemental love a bit more. This would allow for more deck diversity both within clans and between clans, more freedom to have access to role locked cards, and for more clans to have access to specific powerful cards to level the playing field, like sabotage or feast or famine. You could still only build with one role at a time, but you get a choice of 2 instead of `1. This would still allow for the original goal of tying roles up in the OP to function properly, while also not locking things down so severely. I think this would be an acceptable compromise, and I think it would work better than the current system by a mile, without giving up the competitive aspect of roles fluctuating over the years.

@psychie I think is a really good idea and will sugest you to open a topic to people discuss this..

On 6/18/2018 at 10:20 PM, Tonbo Karasu said:

At this point it's possibly worth starting to guess who the other 5-costs are:

Crab - we know this is Kuni Yori.

Crane - I think it's time for either the Grey Crane, or an Asahina Daimyo

Dragon - Togashi Mitsu?

Lion - Matsu Seventh Legion

Phoenix - Isawa Tsuke or Asako Azanami

Scorpion - Yogo Junzo

Unicorn - Minami Kaze Regulars

Excuse me quoting myself but can I just say that I called Azunami :)

I also have another couple of thoughts for two of the ones we are waiting for:

Crane: Doji Kuwanan...

Scorpion: these new poisons make me think of Shosuro Hametsu.

4 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Excuse me quoting myself but can I just say that I called Azunami :)

I also have another couple of thoughts for two of the ones we are waiting for:

Crane: Doji Kuwanan...

Scorpion: these new poisons make me think of Shosuro Hametsu.

Crane - Daidoji Uji or another duelist

Dragon - Mitsu??? ;)

Scorpion - One of the Ninjas from O5R

Given the rumored text for the dragon 5 cost (and given that at least one other card from the same set of rumors was later confirmed, I have high hopes for the rumor surrounding our 5 cost), assuming Mitsu has a similar lore surrounding him to Old5r, it seems as though it wouldn't quite fit Mitsu, of course given the way they were hinting at Mitsu earlier, it is a safe assumption that Mitsu will be in the 6x6, but he could easily be a 3 coster (of course, now that I think about it, volcanic troll is our 3 coster, and we've already seen our 1,2, and 4 costers as well, so I suppose that would just leave the 5 coster unless we have a 6th peep and it's not just one of each).

For those who aren't aware of the rumored text for the 5 cost monk, it was something along the lines of "Action: play a kiho, tattoo, or monk card from the discard pile, if it was a kiho put it on the bottom of the deck instead." It did not specify conflict or dynasty, so it is super duper good, if it comes out as suggested. The guy who posted it didn't know the stats. The same guy leaked an earlier version of sacred sanctuary's text, that was frankly crap, but close enough to the final product as to make me fairly certain his other "leaks" are valid. And boy am I glad sacred sanctuary was printed the way it was and not the way this guy "leaked" it, because that was so bad, that it made me sad.

Void Punch is gonna make Dragon Monk decks more interesting.

E xcept Lions' , will there be more new strongholds in Elemental cycle?

5 hours ago, Bayushi Kec said:

E xcept Lions' , will there be more new strongholds in Elemental cycle?

The magazine article implied there was one in pack 6.

Card 43 is the Sadane Student.

It is currently up on the Arkham Chronicle Twitter

https://twitter.com/ArkhamChronicle

Edited by ArkhamChronicle
Spelling. Doh!
5 hours ago, ArkhamChronicle said:

Card 43 is the Sadane Student.

It is currently up on the Arkham Chronicle Twitter

https://twitter.com/ArkhamChronicle

Yup, that's some sadane there.

I have updated the OP with everything I know of so far, and quite a bit of speculation. There was somewhat of a jigsaw pieces being put into place with the All and Nothing preview. There are a number of assumptions I have made, and some that will be confirmed with The Fire Within.

  • I think that the Crane will have their 5-coster in The Fires Within.
  • What I heard of the rumours of the Dragon 5-coster make it sound like Gaijutsu, rather than Mitsu.
  • With that picture of a Crane sword in the web fiction, I'm back to expecting 7 ancestral weapons again.

Assumptions

  • Each clan gets 7 Dynasty, 7 Conflict, 1 Province
  • Only the Lion get a Stronghold :(
  • Each pack has at least 1 5-cost
5 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I have updated the OP with everything I know of so far, and quite a bit of speculation. There was somewhat of a jigsaw pieces being put into place with the All and Nothing preview. There are a number of assumptions I have made, and some that will be confirmed with The Fire Within.

  • I think that the Crane will have their 5-coster in The Fires Within.
  • What I heard of the rumours of the Dragon 5-coster make it sound like Gaijutsu, rather than Mitsu.
  • With that picture of a Crane sword in the web fiction, I'm back to expecting 7 ancestral weapons again.

Assumptions

  • Each clan gets 7 Dynasty, 7 Conflict, 1 Province
  • Only the Lion get a Stronghold :(
  • Each pack has at least 1 5-cost

I almost wonder if the last pack will just have the 7 Clan swords in that 113-119 slot.

34 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

I almost wonder if the last pack will just have the 7 Clan swords in that 113-119 slot.

It's a tempting thought, but I haven't been able to get the numbers to work out right so that all 7 clans have a Conflict card spare in Elements Unleashed.

So I was thinking, there's no specific confirmation that Ofushikai is coming in the Elemental Cycle, the original article just says it'd be in a future dynasty pack later this year. What if FFG decides to do a one-off dynasty pack with clan swords and other fun things at the end of the year, sort of a bonus filler for the end of year gap? That way they could potentially wait out a few extra months into 2019 before starting a new cycle without the long drought in product like this past winter.

I know, it's probably a crazy idea and it's only coincidence that none of the clan items have shown up yet in spoilers...or maybe that's why there's been so few cards included in the last couple preview articles, I don't know. *shrugs*

I mean, there is a distinct possibility that they're planning another cycle for november/december like they did with the imperial cycle, but I doubt they'd release a card with a novella that can't be played for an entire year or more, while at this point all of the ancestral blades dropping is getting less and less likely, but for that one to not drop this cycle seems rather unfair on their part.

On 4/4/2018 at 11:14 PM, Tonbo Karasu said:

Hello all, and welcome once again to a thread of spoilers as I collect the.

Here is the Google sheet I'm recording it all on -> Linky

I've stuck the Scorpion on at the bottom, rather than start a separate thread for them.

At this point, I'm just putting the full list in, complete with gaps. I have highlighted my speculation in dark red. And here is what we know:

Pack Card Name Faction Deck Type Traits Rules Cost
4E:1BotK 1 Hisu Mori Toride Y Lion Stronghold Fort.
4E:1BotK 2 Sacred Sanctuary Dragon Province Air Temple. -
4E:1BotK 3 Demonstrating Excellence Neutral Province Air -
4E:1BotK 4 Third Tower Guard Crab Dynasty Character Bushi. 1
4E:1BotK 5 Hiruma Outpost Crab Dynasty Holding Outpost. -
4E:1BotK 6 Fu Sui Disciple Crane Dynasty Character Shugenja. Air. 3
4E:1BotK 7 Matsu Seventh Legion Lion Dynasty Character Bushi. Army. Cavalry. 5
4E:1BotK 8 Isawa Uona Y Phoenix Dynasty Character Shugenja. Air. 2
4E:1BotK 9 Soshi Shadowshaper Scorpion Dynasty Character Shugenja. Air. Shadow. 2
4E:1BotK 10 Heartless Intimidator Scorpion Dynasty Character Courtier. 3
4E:1BotK 11 Shinjo Shono Y Unicorn Dynasty Character Bushi. Cavalry. Commander. Pride. 4
4E:1BotK 12 Shiotome Encampment Unicorn Dynasty Holding Battlefield. -
4E:1BotK 13 Kudaka Y Neutral Dynasty Character Shugenja. Air. Mantis Clan. 4
4E:1BotK 14 Formal Invitation Crane Conflict Attachment Item. 0
4E:1BotK 15 The Mirror's Gaze Crane Conflict Attachment Spell. Air. 2
4E:1BotK 16 Ancient Master Dragon Conflict Character Monk. Tattooed. 1
4E:1BotK 17 Hurricane Punch Dragon Conflict Event Kiho. Air. 0
4E:1BotK 18 Even the Odds Lion Conflict Event Tactic. 0
4E:1BotK 19 Winds of Change Phoenix Conflict Event Spell. Air. Air only. 0
4E:1BotK 20 Maze of Illusion Scorpion Conflict Event Spell. Air. 1
4E:2TL 21 Teachings of the Elements Phoenix Province Earth -
4E:2TL 22 Border Fortress Unicorn Province Air Fort. -
4E:2TL 23 Upholding Authority Neutral Province Earth -
4E:2TL 24 Apprentice Earthcaller Crab Dynasty Character Shugenja. Earth. 3
4E:2TL 25 Kuni Yori Y Crab Dynasty Character Shugenja. Earth. Daimyo. 5
4E:2TL 26 Asahina Takako Y Crane Dynasty Character Shugenja. Air. 4
4E:2TL 27 Bonsai Garden Crane Dynasty Holding Garden. -
4E:2TL 28 Impulsive Novice Dragon Dynasty Character Monk. 2
4E:2TL 29 Court Novice Scorpion Dynasty Character Courtier. 1
4E:2TL 30 Sneaky Shinjo Unicorn Dynasty Character Bushi. 1
4E:2TL 31 Marauding Oni. Neutral Dynasty Character Oni. Shadowlands. 2
4E:2TL 32 Spreading the Darkness Crab Conflict Event Maho. Spell. Earth. 0
4E:2TL 33 Adopted Kin Dragon Conflict Attachment Condition. Fire only. 1/character. 0
4E:2TL 34 Ikoma Reservist Lion Conflict Character Bushi. 1
4E:2TL 35 Writ of Authority Lion Conflict Attachment Item. Earth only. Restricted. 1
4E:2TL 36 Feral Ningyo Phoenix Conflict Character Creature. 3
4E:2TL 37 Oracle of Stone Phoenix Conflict Event Spell. Earth. 0
4E:2TL 38 Tainted Koku Scorpion Conflict Attachment Poison. 1
4E:2TL 39 Press of Battle Unicorn Conflict Event Water only. 0
4E:2TL 40 Sabotage Neutral Conflict Event Earth only. 0
4E:3TFW 41 Abandoning Honour Neutral Province Fire -
4E:3TFW 42 Hiruma Kogoe Y Crab Dynasty Character Bushi. Scout. Sincerity. 2
4E:3TFW 43 Sadane Student Crane Dynasty Character Courtier. 2
4E:3TFW 44 Master Alchemist Dragon Dynasty Character Shugenja. Fire. 4
4E:3TFW 45 The Wrath of the Kami Y Dragon Dynasty Holding Shrine. 1/deck. -
4E:3TFW 46 Lion Dynasty Character
4E:3TFW 47 Phoenix Dynasty Character
4E:3TFW 48 Phoenix Dynasty Character
4E:3TFW 49 Scorpion Dynasty Character 5
4E:3TFW 50 Battle Maiden Recruit Unicorn Dynasty Character Bushi. Battle Maiden. Cavalry. 0
4E:3TFW 51 Wicked Tetsubo Crab Conflict Attachment Weapon. Restricted.
4E:3TFW 52 ...ing Favour Crane Conflict Attachment Item. Fire only. 0
4E:3TFW 53 Crane Conflict Attachment Weapon. Ancestral. Restricted.
4E:3TFW 54 Smoke Dragon Conflict Attachment Spell. Fire. 1
4E:3TFW 55 Lion Conflict
4E:3TFW 56 Scorpion Conflict Attachment
4E:3TFW 57 Shiksha Scout Unicorn Conflict Character Creature. Scout. 2
4E:3TFW 58 Invocation of Ash Unicorn Conflict Attachment Spell. Fire. Meishodo. 1
4E:3TFW 59 Neutral Conflict Character Mantis Clan.
4E:3TFW 60 Neutral Conflict
4E:4TEaF 61 Crab Province Water -
4E:4TEaF 62 Seeking the Truth Neutral Province Water -
4E:4TEaF 63 Ikebana Artisan Crane Dynasty Character Courtier. 2
4E:4TEaF 64 Volcanic Troll Dragon Dynasty Character Creature. 3
4E:4TEaF 65 Tireless Sodan Senzo Lion Dynasty Character Shugenja. Water. 2
4E:4TEaF 66 Asako Azunami Y Phoenix Dynasty Character Shugenja. Water. Elemental Master. 5
4E:4TEaF 67 Disguised Protector Scorpion Dynasty Character Bushi. Shinobi. Yojimbo. 4
4E:4TEaF 68 Scorpion Dynasty Holding -
4E:4TEaF 69 Master of the Swift Waves Unicorn Dynasty Character Shugenja. Water. Cavalry. 3
4E:4TEaF 70 Yoritomo Y Neutral Dynasty Character Bushi. Champion. Mantis Clan. 5
4E:4TEaF 71 Nezumi Infiltrator Crab Conflict Character Creature. Scout. 1
4E:4TEaF 72 Fight On Crab Conflict Event Water only. 1
4E:4TEaF 73 Menacing Iron Warrior Crane Conflict Character Bushi. 3
4E:4TEaF 74 Soul Beyond Reproach Crane Conflict Event 1
4E:4TEaF 75 Hawk Tattoo Dragon Conflict Attachment Tattoo. 1
4E:4TEaF 76 Heroic Resolve Lion Conflict Attachment Condition. 1
4E:4TEaF 77 My Ancestor's Strength Lion Conflict Event Spell. Water. 1
4E:4TEaF 78 Phoenix Conflict
4E:4TEaF 79 Deceptive Offer Scorpion Conflict Event 0
4E:4TEaF 80 Force of the River Unicorn Conflict Attachment Spell. Water. Meishodo. 1
4E:5AaN 81 Raging Battleground Lion Province Void -
4E:5AaN 82 Appealing to the Fortunes Neutral Province Void -
4E:5AaN 83 Tainted Hero Crab Dynasty Character Bushi. Berserker. Shadowlands 3
4E:5AaN 84 Crab Dynasty
4E:5AaN 85 Callow Delegate Crane Dynasty Character Courtier. 1
4E:5AaN 86 Dragon Dynasty Character 5
4E:5AaN 87 Lion Dynasty Character
4E:5AaN 88 Lion Dynasty Character
4E:5AaN 89 Ethereal Dreamer Phoenix Dynasty Character Shugenja. Void. 1
4E:5AaN 90 Phoenix Dynasty Holding -
4E:5AaN 91 Iuchi Shahai Y Unicorn Dynasty Character Shugenja. Water. 4
4E:5AaN 92 Crab Conflict
4E:5AaN 93 Game of Sadane Crane Conflict Event 1
4E:5AaN 94 Void Fist Dragon Conflict Event Kiho. Void. 0
4E:5AaN 95 Phoenix Conflict
4E:5AaN 96 Shosuro Sadako Y Scorpion Conflict Character Bushi. Shadow. Shinobi. 2
4E:5AaN 97 Mark of Shame Scorpion Conflict Attachment Condition. Air only. 2
4E:5AaN 98 Unicorn Conflict Attachment Weapon. Ancestral. Restricted.
4E:5AaN 99 Dispatch Unicorn Conflict Event Limited. 1
4E:5AaN 100 Perfect Land Ethos Neutral Conflict Event Philosophy. 2
4E:6EU 101 Crane Province
4E:6EU 102 Scorpion Province -
4E:6EU 103 Crane Dynasty Character 5
4E:6EU 104 Dragon Dynasty Character
4E:6EU 105 Dragon Dynasty Character
4E:6EU 106 Lion Dynasty Character
4E:6EU 107 Lion Dynasty Holding
4E:6EU 108 Phoenix Dynasty Character
4E:6EU 109 Scorpion Dynasty Character
4E:6EU 110 Minami Kaze Regularsr Unicorn Dynasty Character Bushi. Army. Cavalry. 5
4E:6EU 111 Mantis Tenkinja Neutral Dynasty Character Shugenja. Water. Mantis Clan. Water only. 2
4E:6EU 112 Awakened Tsukumogami Neutral Dynasty Character Spirit. Void. Void only. 2
4E:6EU 113 Crab Conflict
4E:6EU 114 Crab Conflict
4E:6EU 115 Dragon Conflict Attachment Weapon. Ancestral. Restricted.
4E:6EU 116 Lion Conflict
4E:6EU 117 Phoenix Conflict
4E:6EU 118 Phoenix Conflict
4E:6EU 119 Scorpion Conflict Attachment
4E:6EU 120 Unleash the Djinn Unicorn Conflict Event Spell. Fire. Meishodo. Fire only. 0
5UotE 1 Kyuden Bayushi Y Scorpion Stronghold Palace. -
5UotE 2 Scorpion Province -
5UotE 3 Support of the Scorpion Role -
5UotE 4 Alibi Artist Scorpion Dynasty Character 1
5UotE 5 Scorpion Dynasty Character
5UotE 6 Scorpion Dynasty Character
5UotE 7 Scorpion Dynasty Character
5UotE 8 Bayushi Aramoro Y Scorpion Dynasty Character Bushi. Shinobi. 4
5UotE 9 Scorpion Dynasty Character 5
5UotE 10 Bayushi's Whisperers Y Scorpion Dynasty Character Army. 6
5UotE 11 Court of Deception Scorpion Dynasty Holding -
5UotE 12 Crab Dynasty Character
5UotE 13 Dragon Dynasty Character
5UotE 14 Akodo Kage Y Lion Dynasty Character Courtier. 4
5UotE 15 Phoenix Dynasty Character
5UotE 16 Unicorn Dynasty Character
5UotE 17 Neutral Dynasty
5UotE 18 Scorpion Conflict Character
5UotE 19 Scorpion Conflict Character
5UotE 20 Scorpion Conflict Attachment
5UotE 21 Stolen Breath Scorpion Conflict Attachment Poison. 2
5UotE 22 Duty Scorpion Conflict Event Philosophy. 1/deck. 0
5UotE 23 Scorpion Conflict Event
5UotE 24 Scorpion Conflict Event
5UotE 25 Scorpion Conflict Event
5UotE 26 Doji Fumiki Y Crane Conflict Character Courtier. 2
5UotE 27 Neutral Conflict
5UotE 28 Neutral Conflict
4E:? Ikoma Ikehata Y Lion Dynasty Character
4E:? Matsu Mitsuko Y Lion Dynasty Character Bushi. Cavalry. Commander. 4
4E:? Pragmatism Crab Conflict Attachment Condition. 1
4E:? Ofushikai Y Phoenix Conflict Attachment Weapon. Ancestral. Restricted. 2
4E:? Infiltrator Scorpion Conflict Attachment Follower. 1

Here is what you are missing for TFW

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156568021183033&set=pcb.1952351651462575&type=3&theater&ifg=1

9 hours ago, BayushiFugu said:

Updated:

3 Mistakes:

  • Lion and Phoenix had swapped around a Dynasty and conflict card between them
  • There isn't a Crane Ancestral weapon here.
  • The Mantis character appeared after the neutral event (which I call a moral victory)

I did predict the 5-cost being a Scorpion though :)

Only 3 cards missing from Ebb and Flow. Hopefully they will be previewed soon.

11 hours ago, BayushiFugu said:

Only 3 cards missing from Ebb and Flow. Hopefully they will be previewed soon.

Yeah, and we have a reasonably good idea what they are:

  • they already said there was a Scorpion Holding
  • the province is a Crab one, because the other 2 clans who haven't shown a province yet already both have 3 cards this pack
  • the Phoenix card is probably a water spell, although Ofushikai is a possibility, given the background to the sword.

Still hoping the last 3 cards for E&F show up before the last pack preview on Wednesday. :)

More likely we'll see them Friday when the pack gets posted to cardgamedb.