Hi all. I've been kind of out of it with the game for a while but am getting to go to my first system open in a month and change, thanks to KublaCon, though the Mynock Podcast is making me slightly nervous about it. Anyway, I'm trying to figure out what's best to practice up with, either the Kylo + 2 deadeye gunboats with harpoons, ps-11 Imperials with harpoons (Vader, Quickdraw and Countdown/Nu), or 4 nu squadrons with harpoons and lrs + an academy blocker. All are fun, but I don't have a sense for the meta and whenever I go on vassal I never get anyone playing the serious lists. I'm pretty decent at ace lists and used to play a lot of Whisper and Tie Swarm, but do have a tendency to overthink things sometimes. Thanks!

8 hours ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

Hi all. I've been kind of out of it with the game for a while but am getting to go to my first system open in a month and change, thanks to KublaCon, though the Mynock Podcast is making me slightly nervous about it. Anyway, I'm trying to figure out what's best to practice up with, either the Kylo + 2 deadeye gunboats with harpoons, ps-11 Imperials with harpoons (Vader, Quickdraw and Countdown/Nu), or 4 nu squadrons with harpoons and lrs + an academy blocker. All are fun, but I don't have a sense for the meta and whenever I go on vassal I never get anyone playing the serious lists. I'm pretty decent at ace lists and used to play a lot of Whisper and Tie Swarm, but do have a tendency to overthink things sometimes. Thanks!

5x ps2 y-wing with btl/autoblaster turret

4x ps1 scurrg with inspiring recruit/long range scanner

A good question based on you deciding between Kylo + 2 Rho Boats or Quickdraw/Vader/Boat is, do you want to actively try to kill everything or are you willing to only kill what you need and escape the rest of the game with your end game piece? Also out of those ships, which ones do you have the most experience flying?

9 hours ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

Hi all. I've been kind of out of it with the game for a while but am getting to go to my first system open in a month and change, thanks to KublaCon, though the Mynock Podcast is making me slightly nervous about it. Anyway, I'm trying to figure out what's best to practice up with, either the Kylo + 2 deadeye gunboats with harpoons, ps-11 Imperials with harpoons (Vader, Quickdraw and Countdown/Nu), or 4 nu squadrons with harpoons and lrs + an academy blocker. All are fun, but I don't have a sense for the meta and whenever I go on vassal I never get anyone playing the serious lists. I'm pretty decent at ace lists and used to play a lot of Whisper and Tie Swarm, but do have a tendency to overthink things sometimes. Thanks!

System Opens are some of the most fun you can have at an accessible X-Wing tournament because of how many different things are going on all at once. You have Hyperspace Qualifiers, Knockout Swiss, and all kinds of Hanger Bays along with crazy good alt arts / tokens as door prizes. And it just feels thematic by itself....its Mandalore! So with that out of the way.

If you used to play Whisper alot...Kylo should be a good fit. With the boats your just looking to nuke w/e scares Kylo the most as soon as possible. Then decide if you want to keep Kylo in danger or go full Miranda mode without regen and run to time. Its tricky though since its very common to lose one of those Gunboats before it even fires. You can still salvage that since the other gunboat is still throwing some dice. But its a fragile archetype. You really cant afford to make any mistakes early on. Later its slightly more forgiving provided the scary stuff is off the table or on half points. Either way there is such a ridiculous quantity of Miranda in the meta that merely having 47 pt Kylo always gives me some amount of comfort. As for Vader/Quickdraw...absolutely my favorite Imperial archetype. Always has been. But oh boy does the "real" meta make it sad after the cut. Does ok in swiss and then typically runs into a brick wall of good lists that by design don't care all that much about initiative order, arcs, or offense in general. Vader is always good fun though simply because of how unforgiving he is. Its his greatest feature.

Of all the things that have done ok for Imperials in the past few months though the two lists below are probably the coolest possible Imperial things on paper. Do consider bringing them.

We need heroes right now. True heroes use Silencers, Gunboats, or Vader.

Vader + Rhos

The Sound of Silence

Well, as I see it, there is playing the game and then there is Turrets, especially TLT, you're golden; and if you can add in Regen, hello Miranda, then you're platinum. If you want to have fun, use Arced ships like you listed; but then you'll have to actually plan your moves and really think; actually fly the ships, weird throwback I know, I know. But hey, I love Whisper and TIEs too, and I'd rather have fun than basically mostly auto win as I hate myself (with turrets of course). I like @Boom Owl 's thoughts, have fun!

I don't like running but I guess I can with Kylo. I take it that's a hard nope on the Gunboat swarm then? What list do the Vader/QD/Nu lists lose to specifically? They seem like the most fragile to me, though I was also thinking about using Countdown instead of a Nu for blocking, though I'd probably regret not having the firepower. Against a Fenn/Ghost list I guess I just want to launch all the ordnance at the ghost right away instead of burning missiles on taking out Fenn?

high PS harpoons have the undeniable benefit of making your games shorter, easier (relatively, nothing is as easy as flying turrets), and therefore less of an utter drain on your soul

especially if you've been out for a little bit

edit: but goddamn if the Silencer isn't fun as ****

33 minutes ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

I don't like running but I guess I can with Kylo. I take it that's a hard nope on the Gunboat swarm then? What list do the Vader/QD/Nu lists lose to specifically? They seem like the most fragile to me, though I was also thinking about using Countdown instead of a Nu for blocking, though I'd probably regret not having the firepower. Against a Fenn/Ghost list I guess I just want to launch all the ordnance at the ghost right away instead of burning missiles on taking out Fenn?

Countdown is interesting, but I don't think it fits well in a Harpoon/Alpha strike based list. Plus unless you've had a lot of reps with Countdown, it's going to be hard to get the most out of him. Vader/QD/Rho OR Nu sounds like the way to go for you because with Kylo + 2 Boats, your win condition is to use the Boats and Kylo to kill everything in your opponents list until Kylo is worth more pts than the rest of it while keeping Kylo safe from dying. If that means running, then that might be what you have to do at the end of some games.

Vader/QD/Boat will probably have a rough time against double shadowcasters or Dash/Poe because of Target Lock denial unless you tech for that and take Targeting Synchronizer on QD which partners very well with FCS and QD's ability. If you go with the Nu version, you're sitting with some pts leftover where you can put LWF on QD instead of GChips to allow for better endgame survivability.

I'd start with something like this: Vader/QD/Nu . You get a 2 pt bid which will be good to make sure you move last and your QD is actually a solid endgame at 43 pts (41 + 2pt bid). If you're not worried about the anti Target Lock tech, then switch Targeting Synchronizer for Advanced Optics then be at a 3 pt bid.

Yeah, I'm in a small town so not much play. Won a local thingy with Kylo, gunboat, and Deathrain, but haven't had much high-level practice or found the right vassal matches. I tried the Raclo + Whisper thing for a while but getting one-shotted by a flechette torpedo or murdered by an unmodified range-3 shot from Zeb's Tie was just too much so I want something that won't just explode. Maybe that means to go with the rho boat list? I'm not sure what late-game Quickdraw is like, if he makes it that long. That list sounds good though Stan, but I was wondering if it's bad to go ps11 vader, ps10 QD, and a rho instead? Is double-11s necessary, or just being higher than 9?

If it comes out in time though I might put Krennic on Whisper and then immediately regret it because of ps-11 stress. Spending the inevitable blank die to eat a shield though....

*Place Holder for Secrets for Crushing Ghost Fenn

16 minutes ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

That list sounds good though Stan, but I was wondering if it's bad to go ps11 vader, ps10 QD, and a rho instead? Is double-11s necessary, or just being higher than 9?

Double 11s IMO is definitely necessary because Nym and Poe with Black One title are out there both of which are super sad to move before QD and Vader that have missiles. Plus out bidding the PS 11 Fenn Rau coordinating has it's values too. You want to keep that extra gunboat cheap but effective. The more points you put into it, the more your opponent will want to kill it and take it off the board. When it's less points, it's less appealing to take out only 22 pts worth of a list in the early game. If you opponent decides to go after it, sweet, that just means Vader and QD have a longer period of time on the board to do terrible things like Vader's ATC getting crits for Harpoon conditions left on ships you've shot at and the longer QD retains shields for double taps.

1 hour ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

That list sounds good though Stan, but I was wondering if it's bad to go ps11 vader, ps10 QD, and a rho instead? Is double-11s necessary, or just being higher than 9?

1 hour ago, RStan said:

Double 11s IMO is definitely necessary because Nym and Poe with Black One title are out there both of which are super sad to move before QD and Vader that have missiles. Plus out bidding the PS 11 Fenn Rau coordinating has it's values too. You want to keep that extra gunboat cheap but effective. The more points you put into it, the more your opponent will want to kill it and take it off the board. When it's less points, it's less appealing to take out only 22 pts worth of a list in the early game. If you opponent decides to go after it, sweet, that just means Vader and QD have a longer period of time on the board to do terrible things like Vader's ATC getting crits for Harpoon conditions left on ships you've shot at and the longer QD retains shields for double taps.

As someone who has effectively run Black One Poe recently, I would recommend going to PS 11 if you can. I ran a PS 11 Han/Poe in my league (have to run different list every week) and really frustrated enemy ordnance as well as Fire Control System lists. A the end of the league tournament, I decided that hardly anyone had run anything above PS9 the whole time so I switched to Intensity Poe with a 2 point bid and it was just as effective against ordnance. Poe with BB-8, Primed Thrusters and Intensity was shedding locks every round even after Red maneuvers. (I lost in the final by 1 hull point due a horribly timed asteroid collision - about half a nub hit the stupid rock - that cost Han a range 1 shot on a defenseless Quickdraw.)

Black One Poe is a real threat to ordnance lists.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

*Place Holder for Secrets for Crushing Ghost Fenn

Meh

9 hours ago, JediSamurai said:

5x ps2 y-wing with btl/autoblaster turret

4x ps1 scurrg with inspiring recruit/long range scanner

4 x PS 1 Starvipers with mk2 title & Sunny Bounder with the Light Scyk title.

8 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

The Sound of Silence

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter	29
Veteran Instincts	1
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Lightweight Frame	2
Special Ops Training	0
Ship Total: 36
Sienar-Jaemus Analyst — TIE Silencer	26
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Autothrusters	2
Ship Total: 32
Sienar-Jaemus Analyst — TIE Silencer	26
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Autothrusters	2
Ship Total: 32

This is what I'm taking to the KublaCon System Open. It's a blast to fly with lots of action economy and each ship capable of being a finisher.

As for the Hangar Bay events at KublaCon, I'm probably going to use this list and the 4 x PS 1 Starviper & Sunny Bounder list I posted above as the other.

Cool, see you there then! I'm Joe, btw.

With the Vader/QD/Nu I assume what I drop them to get to 100 pts is going to be advanced optics rather than lightweight frame since he's going to be shot a lot anyway? That's why I was thinking of giving him adaptability instead. I don't really trust the predictability of using cruise missiles with Vader.

Vader with VI, title, ATC,Harpoon, and Engine = 39
QD with VI, title, Harpoon, FCS, Advanced Optics, and Chips = 38
Nu + Harpoon= 22

23 hours ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

Hi all. I've been kind of out of it with the game for a while but am getting to go to my first system open in a month and change, thanks to KublaCon, though the Mynock Podcast is making me slightly nervous about it. Anyway, I'm trying to figure out what's best to practice up with, either the Kylo + 2 deadeye gunboats with harpoons, ps-11 Imperials with harpoons ( Vader , Quickdraw and Countdown /Nu), or 4 nu squadrons with harpoons and lrs + an academy blocker. All are fun, but I don't have a sense for the meta and whenever I go on vassal I never get anyone playing the serious lists. I'm pretty decent at ace lists and used to play a lot of Whisper and Tie Swarm, but do have a tendency to overthink things sometimes. Thanks!

You know that there is a "squad list" sub forum for this kind of posts, right?

Yes, for coming up with ideas, rather than more general questions I thought. And also most people seem to ignore them, at least in my experience.

20 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

System Opens are some of the most fun you can have at an accessible X-Wing tournament because of how many different things are going on all at once. You have Hyperspace Qualifiers, Knockout Swiss, and all kinds of Hanger Bays along with crazy good alt arts / tokens as door prizes. And it just feels thematic by itself....its Mandalore! So with that out of the way.

If you used to play Whisper alot...Kylo should be a good fit. With the boats your just looking to nuke w/e scares Kylo the most as soon as possible. Then decide if you want to keep Kylo in danger or go full Miranda mode without regen and run to time. Its tricky though since its very common to lose one of those Gunboats before it even fires. You can still salvage that since the other gunboat is still throwing some dice. But its a fragile archetype. You really cant afford to make any mistakes early on. Later its slightly more forgiving provided the scary stuff is off the table or on half points. Either way there is such a ridiculous quantity of Miranda in the meta that merely having 47 pt Kylo always gives me some amount of comfort. As for Vader/Quickdraw...absolutely my favorite Imperial archetype. Always has been. But oh boy does the "real" meta make it sad after the cut. Does ok in swiss and then typically runs into a brick wall of good lists that by design don't care all that much about initiative order, arcs, or offense in general. Vader is always good fun though simply because of how unforgiving he is. Its his greatest feature.

Of all the things that have done ok for Imperials in the past few months though the two lists below are probably the coolest possible Imperial things on paper. Do consider bringing them.

We need heroes right now. True heroes use Silencers, Gunboats, or Vader.

Vader + Rhos

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced	29
Veteran Instincts	1
Advanced Targeting Computer	1
Engine Upgrade	4
TIE/x1	0
Ship Total: 35
Rho Squadron Veteran — Alpha-class Star Wing	21
Crack Shot	1
Heavy Laser Cannon	7
Linked Battery	2
Long-Range Scanners	0
XG-1 Assault Configuration	1
Ship Total: 32
Rho Squadron Veteran — Alpha-class Star Wing	21
Crack Shot	1
Heavy Laser Cannon	7
Linked Battery	2
Long-Range Scanners	0
XG-1 Assault Configuration	1
Ship Total: 32

The Sound of Silence

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter	29
Veteran Instincts	1
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Lightweight Frame	2
Special Ops Training	0
Ship Total: 36
Sienar-Jaemus Analyst — TIE Silencer	26
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Autothrusters	2
Ship Total: 32
Sienar-Jaemus Analyst — TIE Silencer	26
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Autothrusters	2
Ship Total: 32

I know the QuickDraw and two silencer list has made some top appearances and looks fun, but is there any reason that one of those silencers shouldn’t just be the inquisitor

10 hours ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

Cool, see you there then! I'm Joe, btw.

With the Vader/QD/Nu I assume what I drop them to get to 100 pts is going to be advanced optics rather than lightweight frame since he's going to be shot a lot anyway? That's why I was thinking of giving him adaptability instead. I don't really trust the predictability of using cruise missiles with Vader.

Vader with VI, title, ATC,Harpoon, and Engine = 39
QD with VI, title, Harpoon, FCS, Advanced Optics, and Chips = 38
Nu + Harpoon= 22

So there is that variation of the list where you try to have Engine Upgrade on Vader and sell out on the Missile firing for QD. With that variation, I'd rather use Cruise Missile on Vader and leverage his Engine Upgrade double action to still be at 98 pts. In this case, Vader becomes your endgame piece since QD doesn't have LWF so she'll bleed the shields much faster. I'd definitely try both. See if you prefer Vader or QD to be your endgame pieces. In this case, it comes down to what works best with how you like to play.

20 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

The Sound of Silence

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter	29
Veteran Instincts	1
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Lightweight Frame	2
Special Ops Training	0
Ship Total: 36
Sienar-Jaemus Analyst — TIE Silencer	26
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Autothrusters	2
Ship Total: 32
Sienar-Jaemus Analyst — TIE Silencer	26
Fire-Control System	2
Advanced Optics	2
Autothrusters	2
Ship Total: 32

I've flow this list a lot recently, and it's served me well. (Top 16 in two regionals, and 72nd out of 500 at the UK System Open.) The action efficiency is superb, and the Silencers give you two reasonably durable ships that are agile and fast enough to keep the pressure on pretty much anything.

Although I've called it "Silent Night, Deadly Night" myself...

7 hours ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

Yes, for coming up with ideas, rather than more general questions I thought. And also most people seem to ignore them, at least in my experience.

Its much more fun to discuss stuff like this than basically everything else...so who cares what sub-forum its in.

Now for some thoughts on Ghost/Fenn if your just catching up now:

• Don't stay at Range 2-3 with ships that have less than 8 hull without access to Palp. 4x Ezra/Maul TLT per round is to efficient for that.
• Even if you take Fenn Rau off the table in one round you will likely lose a ship the very next round or that same round.
• Thats why I like to split fire, 2 shoot at the Ghost, 1 shoots at Fenn. Force bad decisions on the use of Fenn's pilot ability
• Your goal is to destroy Fenn the same round you remove all the Ghosts Shields. Easier said than done.
• That way even if you lose one of your 3 ships you only have 10 hull on the Ghost to chew through.
• Actionless or Passive Offensive Mods get around Fenn's pilot ability. Easiest way to beat Ghost Fenn is to use stuff like Expertise, Lone Wolf, Predator, etc.
• There is tons of stress in the meta so don't go all in on Expertise without a way to mitigate stress ( Most imperial players have just accepted that Yorr with Palp is always the best 3rd ship )
• Taking the 5 dice Range 1 Primary shot from the ghost is often better than eating all the TLT.
• Fenn will boost the Ghost at PS11 and due to Big Base Engine Upgrade the ghost will arc dodge you.
• That means you want to get close but not to close, there is a very specific spot just inside Range 1 where the ghosts boost options are limited. Put 1 of your ships there.
• If you win the initiative roll and have a PS11 ship try to get into the Ghost's Triangle blind spot. Save Vader for the end game to do this.
• Never Forget that the Ghost is 75 pts total. There is a 3 dice attack shuttle sitting in there. Don't let it block you or get 4 dice on you when it deploys.
• The Ghost will purposely land on rocks as it can boost off them. However, you can still use Rocks to prevent boosting options. Set up cages with multiple ships.
• RAClo with Palp is a reasonable counter to Ghost/Fenn. Just smash in and blind until dead.

So it's probably strictly inferior to dropping the LWF on QD or Harpoon -> Cruise on Vader to get a Nu with harpoons, but what about Omega Leader with A Score to Settle for 100pts? She could do pretty well against a Ghost with lots of variance and flying right at it might force some target priority decisions and provide a useful distraction from the better tlt shots. As long as you get a lock you negate the penalty of the ept, and it isn't affected by Fenn. Might not be bad as a sacrifice to an opposing Quickdraw either. But against other missile-heavy matchups, she'd probably just explode, right?