For casual (FFG Q1 event) tournament play I am considering the following:

3x Crimsion Squadron Pilots (PS 1, B/SF-17 Bomber,, 33 squad points each) with:

• Accuracy Corrector
• Crossfire Formation
• Tactical Jammer
• Sensor Cluster or Pattern Analyzer or Advanced Optics

I am stuck on that last tech upgrade. I don't know which one I want more.

I want Sensor Cluster so, when my ships are not within Range 1-2 of each other, they can still guarantee their focus is used to generate at least 1 evade result when defending.

I want Pattern Analyzer so, when I perform any of my three red maneuvers (zero or hard one left/right), I still have a focus token with which to modify the guaranteed focus result granted by the Crossfire Formation title.

I want Advanced Optics so, when I create a parking lot, begin playing bumper cars, or perform any of my three red maneuvers, I still have a focus token with which to modify the guaranteed focus result granted by the Crossfire Formation title.

Any thoughts on which one would be better overall - throughout the entire game??? Sensor Cluster is best for end game, Advanced Optics is best for the opening approach, and Pattern Analyzer is best for the first couple combat phases...

That's a very defensive way to go. It's not an easy choice, because in a lot of ways none of the choices are good. Optics doesn't add that much over Pattern Analyzer, because TL are nearly worthless, and your actions. Pattern Analyzer can bump, which is it's issue. So I think Sensor Cluster might be the way to go. It's also worth noting: Crossfire Formation *isn't* range 1-2 of each other. It's having a resistance ship at range 1-2 of the attacker. So it won't work early if your opponent is at range 3, but you'll have Sensor Cluster.

It seems like an interesting list, and might do enough damage before it dies. However, how about this:

• Trajectory Simulator
• Ordnance Silos + Seismic Charges ~~ or ~~ (1x) Bomblet Generator (2x) Thermal Detonators + Ordnance Silos
• Weapons Guidance (!)
• Deflective Plating

So you'll have reasonable red-dice consistency with WG and you'll be launching a bunch of bombs. You'll be easier to kill, at least by a bit, but probably not that much worse off, and you'll probably gain damage. It'd be interesting to try both, but that doesn't really help for a tournament.

Good points, I originally had Sensor Cluster in there but began thinking about other options...I'll stick with Sensor Cluster.

The reason I want to run 3 of them is because, at Regionals in MA, I faced 1 of these flying whales and it didn't have any upgrades with a defensive focus to them. I put 4 Harpoon Missiles into this PS1 Bomber and still had to TLT it to death...

Yup, math: 12 total health vs. 4 autodamage (Harpooned! triggered) and 16 total attack dice. Still had to TLT it for the last hull point! (I had two Scurrgs with guidance chips, EM, and Harpoon Missiles.)

Never. Tell. Me. The. Odds. [obviously my dice were not "hot"]

I really think 3 of those beauties are great with bombs - all with PA, Silos, Clusters. LOADS of bombs!

On ‎30‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 5:57 PM, ZealuxMyr said:

For casual (FFG Q1 event) tournament play I am considering the following:

3x Crimsion Squadron Pilots (PS 1, B/SF-17 Bomber,, 33 squad points each) with:

• Accuracy Corrector
• Crossfire Formation
• Tactical Jammer
• Sensor Cluster or Pattern Analyzer or Advanced Optics

I am stuck on that last tech upgrade. I don't know which one I want more.

I want Sensor Cluster so, when my ships are not within Range 1-2 of each other, they can still guarantee their focus is used to generate at least 1 evade result when defending.

I want Pattern Analyzer so, when I perform any of my three red maneuvers (zero or hard one left/right), I still have a focus token with which to modify the guaranteed focus result granted by the Crossfire Formation title.

I want Advanced Optics so, when I create a parking lot, begin playing bumper cars, or perform any of my three red maneuvers, I still have a focus token with which to modify the guaranteed focus result granted by the Crossfire Formation title.

Any thoughts on which one would be better overall - throughout the entire game??? Sensor Cluster is best for end game, Advanced Optics is best for the opening approach, and Pattern Analyzer is best for the first couple combat phases...

I want to try a similar list, to be fair!

Sensor Cluster, Pattern Analyser or Advanced Optics. Hmmm.

Your assessment of the three upgrades is spot on. Advanced Optics vs Pattern Analyser is going to be the big question mark, but I'd suggest that Advanced Optics is the less useful of the two:

• Advanced Optics lets you 'retain' a focus token next turn, letting you have one when either you don't get an action or want to use your action for something else
• With Accuracy Corrector on a 2-dice primary turret, the odds of you ever wanting to target lock are minimal, so you always get your action for a defensive focus
• Advanced Optics gives you a 'free' focus if you didn't spend your focus last turn. Since Crossfire Formation means you should always roll a focus result when defending, whichever BS/F-17 is being shot up by the enemy will, under normal circumstances, never finish its turn with a focus token because you'll have been shot at and used it to block one damage.
• Yes, Advanced Optics makes you more tolerant of blocking, but since Pattern Analyser lets you use an unblockable 'stop' move, and with a turret you can freely turn away from or past your opponent with no concern about which way your printed arc is pointing, blocking shouldn't be a particular concern - especially with PS1 ships!

Pattern Analyser versus Sensor Cluster.....Sensor Cluster is awesome once 2 bombers go down, or if you're being shot at from range 3, or are caught on your own. That's a lot of the game (a bit over 1/3, in theory), but it won't always help in those situations - it requires you to roll a blank and no focus results, so just over 1/3 of the time (or just under 1/3 of the time at range 3) you'll net an extra evade.

So it's something like 1/3 of 1/3 of the turns in the game you get an evade from sensor cluster you wouldn't have had otherwise, whilst on turns you do a red move and either are in crossfire range or roll a focus if not (2/3 of the game for the former, ~ 1/3 x 1/4 for the latter) you get an evade from pattern analyser you wouldn't have had.

That's mostly a balancing act of "what proportion of the time do you do red moves with a bomber?" and will depend on the player - based on the very, very rough figures above, you 'break even' if you do a red move approximately 1/6th of the time.

I'd probably vote pattern analyser, because one thing that makes sensor cluster detectably less good value is getting to roll extra evade dice. Since with tactical jammer you would presumably aim to manoeuvre to shield damaged BS/F-17 with undamaged ones, you're (a) more likely to be rolling 2+ evade dice if your opponent tries to concentrate fire on a damaged bomber, and (b) more likely to be pulling hard manoeuvres where pattern analyser gives you actions you wouldn't have had.

One other thought for your perusal: instead of a tech upgrade and tactical jammer, you could instead take countermeasures.

Since harpoon missiles a-go-go is a thing, countermeasures is not a bad idea - opponents engaging from range 3 are outside crossfire range, and if they're flinging missiles you get no range defence bonus. With countermeasures and a focus token, 3 target locked missiles become 2 target locked missiles and a primary weapon attack against a target with an extra green die - something which can easily save you a couple of damage, and against 3 heavily modified 4-dice missiles and or bombs, harpoon splash and 'free attacks' from Quickdraw might make the difference between a bomber being taken out in the opening salvo and not.

So, with four rounds of swiss, I went: 3 wins, 1 loss with an MOV of 487 and came in second of 10 players. First place was the only player to beat me, it came down to one Crimson Squadron Pilot at 10 total health vs. a 1 hull Lowhhrick with C-3PO. You can see the problem...moves after me and the Reinforce + C-3PO combo (guessing zero every time) automatically blocks 100% of the incoming damage I could potentially do. We played it out, Lowhhrick had 1 hull so it was possible for me to kill him if he misjudged arc on reinforce or I caught him at Range 1. Ultimately Lowhhrick slowly pecked away at my 10 hit points and won the match.

I've determined sensor cluster is worthless, with 3 large base ships all with crossfire formation you never need sensor cluster except in the end game. My current adaptation, to be tested, is to drop sensor cluster in favor of seismic charges on each B/SF-17 Bomber. In the one match that I lost being able to do autodamage with bombs (or force the opponent to disengage rather than chase my ship) could've altered the outcome of the game.

Overall I am very pleased with how this list performed (not you sensor cluster). I absolutely cannot justify removing Tactical Jammer, the control it gives you is amazing. I was able to jam up multiple opponents in a perpetual triple ship blockade forcing my opponent to fire through the tactical jammer as well as being able to leap-frog damaged ships over undamaged ships to force the splitting of fire. Tactical Jammer is a strong factor in this list. Harpoon Missiles are not a concern, you have SO MUCH HEALTH that they really just don't freaking matter. Plus, with a focus and crossfire formation you're blocking 1-2 of the incoming hits so they're not very damaging. Biggest counter to the Harpoon Missiles is to USE THE DISCARD ACTION ON THE CONDITION CARD when the enemy ships are also not at Range 1. With the three blockading bombers it is extremely easy to get Harpooned! and then cram your ships around your opponent so they set off the condition while also harming their own ships. With 12 hit points each it's totally worth it, this list is ROUGH to chew through and a lot of fun to fly! Even Rey w/Finn crew couldn't melt the blockade

Hey well done! Seems really interesting and I'm still wondering how'd you deal with Kylo or a point fortressing regen ship - have you faced them at all?

Gotta give this thing a try!

10 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

So, with four rounds of swiss, I went: 3 wins, 1 loss with an MOV of 487 and came in second of 10 players. First place was the only player to beat me, it came down to one Crimson Squadron Pilot at 10 total health vs. a 1 hull Lowhhrick with C-3PO. You can see the problem...moves after me and the Reinforce + C-3PO combo (guessing zero every time) automatically blocks 100% of the incoming damage I could potentially do. We played it out, Lowhhrick had 1 hull so it was possible for me to kill him if he misjudged arc on reinforce or I caught him at Range 1. Ultimately Lowhhrick slowly pecked away at my 10 hit points and won the match.

Congratulations!

I know that 2-dice turrets are a bit wimpy but the moment I saw the bomber's statline I wondered if an accuracy corrector turret might still cut it with those two automatic hits.

10 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

I've determined sensor cluster is worthless, with 3 large base ships all with crossfire formation you never need sensor cluster except in the end game

That was pretty much my thinking above. As noted, I was thinking pattern analyser might be a better deal.

10 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

My current adaptation, to be tested, is to drop sensor cluster in favor of seismic charges on each B/SF-17 Bomber. In the one match that I lost being able to do autodamage with bombs (or force the opponent to disengage rather than chase my ship) could've altered the outcome of the game.

In the case of that game - where you only needed 1 more damage but against essentially impervious defences - then bombs would be perfect, but I wonder how useful it would be against other opponents. The ability to 'pattern-drop' three bombs on a critical turn can be impressive, though.

I'm a bit torn - on the one hand, you get better value by taking seismics and silos on one ship and seismics on a second than seismics on all three, but you get a distinct order of 'priority targets' which means the ship with multiple bombs probably won't live long enough to use them.

Certainly it's probably a good choice against autothruster mobs. I'm not sure how this force would handle three generic silencers, for example - even with accuracy corrector, agility 3 with autothrusters feels like a big ask.

10 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

I absolutely cannot justify removing Tactical Jammer, the control it gives you is amazing. I was able to jam up multiple opponents in a perpetual triple ship blockade forcing my opponent to fire through the tactical jammer as well as being able to leap-frog damaged ships over undamaged ships to force the splitting of fire. Tactical Jammer is a strong factor in this list.

Blocking with a Tactical Jammer ship is a very smart move, and one I hadn't thought of. A large based ship crashing into you (or you into it) will occlude the entire firing arc of a smaller ship pretty easily, meaning any shots have to deal with both tactical jammer and crossfire formation against any viable target. Combined with the impressive durability of the BS/F-17, I can only imagine how much effort it took to kill them...

10 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Harpoon Missiles are not a concern, you have SO MUCH HEALTH that they really just don't freaking matter. Plus, with a focus and crossfire formation you're blocking 1-2 of the incoming hits so they're not very damaging.

My main concern was a multiple salvo of 3+ harpoons - you can easily cut the teeth of the first missile, but subsequent ones tend to hit at full effect - crossfire formation won't do much to the second and third missiles since your focus will be gone.

(Although that said, when facing multiple missiles, you might consider waiting to spend your focus if you don't roll a focus on the die in the first attack. After all, you know you will have a focus result added to attacks 2 & 3, so there's no 'risk' to waiting for a focus/focus evade roll, because you can never end up unable to spend the token.....)

10 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Biggest counter to the Harpoon Missiles is to USE THE DISCARD ACTION ON THE CONDITION CARD when the enemy ships are also not at Range 1. With the three blockading bombers it is extremely easy to get Harpooned! and then cram your ships around your opponent so they set off the condition while also harming their own ships.

Agreed; taking an action to remove the Harpooned! condition is nearly always worth it. I should specify I'm more looking from the perspective of multiple Khiraxz or Scurrg missile carriers, who can fire-and-detonate multiple missiles in a single shooting phase. Especially since you can tolerate not spending your action on anything else for a turn.

10 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Even Rey w/Finn crew couldn't melt the blockade

Glad to hear it. So, Rey/Finn, Lowwhrick and who else did you face?

Big 'heavy mob' lists can do surprisingly well. I've not had a chance to try it, but I know that triple batwings with pattern analyser and hypercomms have done scarily well at a local store event; having two ten-hit, primary 4 ships 'just appear' in weapons range in round one is terrifying.

What I faced:

Round 1 » WIN: 100 points destroyed, 82 points lost (2.5 Bombers) » Versus: Kylo Ren (Push the Limit, Advanced Sensors, First Order Vanguard, Advanced Optics, Autothrusters), Quickdraw (Fire Control System, Lightweight Frame, Special Ops Training, Advanced Optics, Calculation? - not 100% sure what his EPT actually was, but cannot be more than 1 point and certainly wasn't VI...), and Epsilon Ace (Naked)

Round 2 » WIN: 100 points destroyed, 49 points lost (1.5 Bombers) » Versus: Rey (Veteran Instincts, Kanan Jarrus, Finn, Inertial Dampeners, Smuggling Compartment, Millennium Falcon [TFA]) and Jan Ors (Veteran Instincts, Twin Laser Turret, Chewbacca, Shield Upgrade, Moldy Crow)

Round 3 » LOSS: 63 points destroyed, 99 (100) points lost (3 Bombers) » Versus: Rey (Expertise, Kanan Jarrus, Finn, Scavenger Crane, Smuggling Compartment, Countermeasures, Millennium Falcon [TFA])and Lowhhrick (Expertise, Tactician, C-3PO)

Round 4 » WIN: 100 points destroyed, 49 points lost (1.5 Bombers) » Versus: Kath Scarlet (Scum, w/Tail Gunner), and 2x Crackshot, Harpoon Missile Black Sun Ace Vaksai [I am very fuzzy on what these ships had for upgrades beyond this...]

how much trouble did kylo give you?

I started by attacking Kylo, I managed to average about 1 damage a round. Once he got to 2 hull he up an buggered off. Then I killed Epsilon Ace over the course of the next two rounds, he got trapped at Range 1 of some zero stop maneuvering bombers. Quickdraw was pretty annoying but, the first time I attacked him I managed to get all his shields in one round - a round in which he had zero of my ships in arc.

Kylo was just annoying, he wasn't overly powerful - it just took a long time to chip away at his health with only 2 hit results per attack vs. 3+ defense dice (I took so many Range 3 obstructed attacks it's not even funny). Plus he wasn't consistently setting off ISYTDS each round so I was able to pass the condition card around between my ships » Attack Kylo first with Bomber A, take ISYTDS, follow up with Bomber B & C and then go to the next round and attack Kylo first with Bomber B, move ISYTDS, follow up with Bomber A & C. In this way I was able to get my opponent to spread his fire as he attempted to trigger ISYTDS.

--

Over the course of the day there were many times low health bombers survived a lot longer than they should've because of the power of Focus + Crossfire Formation and Leapfrogging Tactical Jammers. Anything you can do to encourage the spreading of fire makes this list even more annoying to try and take out.

19 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Quickdraw was pretty annoying but, the first time I attacked him I managed to get all his shields in one round - a round in which he had zero of my ships in arc.

That's pretty much always key to killing her; if you can drop all three shields in one turn you only have to eat at best one extra attack.

19 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Kylo was just annoying, he wasn't overly powerful - it just took a long time to chip away at his health with only 2 hit results per attack vs. 3+ defense dice (I took so many Range 3 obstructed attacks it's not even funny).

Yeah - that was my main concern. He's not actually that shooty, he's just a bugger to actually hit - and unlike Soontir Fel, he doesn't come apart like wafers when you finally manage to hit him.... If you can get a hit a turn with three turrets, that's probably enough - as long as you are hurting him, you'll win the damage race eventually.

19 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Plus he wasn't consistently setting off ISYTDS each round so I was able to pass the condition card around between my ships » Attack Kylo first with Bomber A, take ISYTDS, follow up with Bomber B & C and then go to the next round and attack Kylo first with Bomber B, move ISYTDS, follow up with Bomber A & C. In this way I was able to get my opponent to spread his fire as he attempted to trigger ISYTDS.

I've always seen I'll Show You The Dark Side as far more a deterrent in a one-on-one duel between aces, who actually give a monkeys about PS0, or who can lose a shot that takes them time to set up another - whilst you just keep chugging along spitting 2-hit turret fire turn after turn. If he tried to chase the white rabbit of the condition token, I personally suspect that was a mistake on his part!

19 hours ago, ZealuxMyr said:

Over the course of the day there were many times low health bombers survived a lot longer than they should've because of the power of Focus + Crossfire Formation and Leapfrogging Tactical Jammers. Anything you can do to encourage the spreading of fire makes this list even more annoying to try and take out.

Not surprising; if you can rack up a jammer and crossfire combination, you've essentially got something with the durability of the Millennium Falcon and the damage mitigation of one automatic evade and two freely rolled defence dice with focus modification - the thought of trying to chew through that three times in a row is just painful.

This B/SF-17 Bomber wing doesn't get torn apart as easily as the one in the opening of TLJ which is good for me, sucky for my opponent!