3 hours ago, MikeySandwich said:

ListJuggler shows 5 people going 5-1 with Ghost/Fenn in Birmingham.

2 hours ago, mdl0114 said:

So far list juggler has 41 of the top 54 lists posts, all 5-1 for the top cup.

In fact there were 5 Ghost/Fenn in the top cut, joining 6 Palp Aces, 5 trip imp aces, 5 Nymranda, 4 100pt aces, and 4 Rey+ lists. The 13 missing lists could change the numbers a bit but the cut at Birmingham tends to resemble the overall X-Wing meta over the past few months, I wouldn’t go too crazy trying to draw conclusions from the top 8 cut or that FFG article.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

I know at least on person who made the cut with it and then went 6 with it at hyperspace too.

5 out of 41. Whilst the percentage (around 10%) might change, it's not as prevalent as the Aces (with or without Palp - by the way, what do you mean by '100pt aces'?). Fewer Rey lists than I saw being played too. There were 2 quad Wookiees and a Nym/Dalan/Jostero list too, I believe? Did Jesper and his brobots make it?

If everyone enters their lists, so we can analyse the overall entries, it'd be interesting to see if a higher or lower percentage of Ghost/Fenn lists were brought than made the cut.

100pt Ace is a catchall for whatever people are calling Ego/3 ship defense stacking rebel. It’s generally Low/sheathapede/Ace and the Ace can be Miranda, Corran, Poe, Norra sometimes, or Nym in the case of Birmingham at least once.

1 quad and 1 triple wookie, the brobot outlier, and a Nym/jostero/Torani list is in the top cut too, at least so far.

The point though is about half the cut is represented by 5-6 of the most prevalent list archetypes, which pretty much matches half the top cuts these past few months being made up by 5-6 popular list archetypes. Birmingham at the moment has more Rey, less 100pt Ace, and less ghost/Fenn than the worldwide cut results but it’s more or less in line with the results around the world the past few months, where more than 50% of the top cut is made up of Ghost/Fenn, 100pt Ace, Palp Aces, Nymranda, trip imp aces, and gunboat lists with Rey as the 7th most cut making list archetype.

The Birmingham results swap out a few percentage points between those top archetypes but the top archetypes around the world are still the top archetypes as Birmingham, pending the rest of the cut being filled in to finalize those numbers.

4 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

The point though is about half the cut is represented by 5-6 of the most prevalent list archetypes, which pretty much matches half the top cuts these past few months being made up by 5-6 popular list archetypes.... ...it’s more or less in line with the results around the world the past few months, where more than 50% of the top cut is made up of Ghost/Fenn, 100pt Ace, Palp Aces, Nymranda, trip imp aces, and gunboat lists with Rey as the 7th most cut making list archetype.

I get it if folks don’t like some of the top archetypes, because they aren’t all the most fun to play or play against. But the diversity of competitive lists is something I celebrate. There are half a dozen proven archetypes, with new stuff rising to the top all the time.

The thing is, it’s not actually any more or less diverse now than it has been in past metas like the parattani or scouts/palp aces metas. A similarly small number of excellent archetypes dominate the current meta as have dominated past metas. Despite years of new releases giving a larger pool of options, a small number of those options make up the majority of cuts. If the lists that are at the top now are fun for anyone, that’s great. I just like seeing claims like this being the most varied meta or there being a wildly different UK meta actually examined rather than just assumed to be fact.

Well said.

Actual figures trumps anecdotes. However, when I compare my personal experiences to the international hysteria levels concerning Ghost/Fenn (here and on Facebook), I don't see that one list dominating. And the figures you've provided back that up - around 10% is not domination.

(Palp) Aces might be becoming a dominant archetype but that really needs more datapoints. And doesn't seem to offend people as much!

1 hour ago, Gilarius said:

(Palp) Aces might be becoming a dominant archetype but that really needs more datapoints. And doesn't seem to offend people as much!

Once the Reaper is out, this is going to be interesting, if Palp Aces again roll over everything when the Reaper is too cheap or has too good options *). According to Gold Squadron Imps also had the largest success rate in the US tourney, i.e. number of squads entering and number of squads making it to the top. Far better than Rebels, and Scum was far off (something like <5% in the upper ranks, with roughly 20% occurence in the starting field).

*) also if this would be the same as back in the days with the unhittable Soontir Fel, that many users here would refuse to aknowledge that a certain Empire build is really getting problematic and detrimental to the game

I think that the lower presence of rebels in these tourneys is the community responding to the cancer that is efficient turrets and ghost/fenn

2 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Well said.

Actual figures trumps anecdotes. However, when I compare my personal experiences to the international hysteria levels concerning Ghost/Fenn (here and on Facebook), I don't see that one list dominating. And the figures you've provided back that up - around 10% is not domination.

(Palp) Aces might be becoming a dominant archetype but that really needs more datapoints. And doesn't seem to offend people as much!

Yeah Birmingham is a little low right now on Ghosts in the cut but not far outside the rest of the world. In the past few months at least 100 point Ace has been more prevalent. Those two archetypes alone are right at about 25% of the cut still over the past couple months so one of those squads you’re going to see if you’re in a major tournament. It’s dropped a bit from being 16% of cuts though at least for now, though if the cure is Low/Ezra/Rebel Regen I dunno if it’s worth it haha

16 minutes ago, CMDR Ytterium said:

I think that the lower presence of rebels in these tourneys is the community responding to the cancer that is efficient turrets and ghost/fenn

There’s not actually a lower presence of rebels though. Since Feb 25 more than half of cuts at tournaments 50 people and up have been rebels. About 1/3rd of the cuts are just Ghost/Fenn, 100pt Ace variants, and Nymranda. A little over 25% of the cut are Imperial lists and Scum aren’t doing so well.

1 minute ago, mdl0114 said:

There’s not actually a lower presence of rebels though. Since Feb 25 more than half of cuts at tournaments 50 people and up have been rebels. About 1/3rd of the cuts are just Ghost/Fenn, 100pt Ace variants, and Nymranda. A little over 25% of the cut are Imperial lists and Scum aren’t doing so well.

Ahh fair enough...

On a completely unrelated note, I think that the very title displays a rebel bias, it may very well not be a dark day if the empire wins a major tourney

2 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Well said.

Actual figures trumps anecdotes. However, when I compare my personal experiences to the international hysteria levels concerning Ghost/Fenn (here and on Facebook), I don't see that one list dominating. And the figures you've provided back that up - around 10% is not domination.

(Palp) Aces might be becoming a dominant archetype but that really needs more datapoints. And doesn't seem to offend people as much!

That's what's important, Palp aces may be strong, but it can be beaten and either way, you'll usually come out of it having enjoyed the match. The same cannot be said of most matches against Nym, Miranda, Wookies, Ghosts, or Bugs.

8 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

That's what's important, Palp aces may be strong, but it can be beaten and either way, you'll usually come out of it having enjoyed the match. The same cannot be said of most matches against Nym, Miranda, Wookies, Ghosts, or Bugs.

While that is true for the current incarnation of Palp aces, one can only hope Palp backed Soontir never comes back

8 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

That's what's important, Palp aces may be strong, but it can be beaten and either way, you'll usually come out of it having enjoyed the match. The same cannot be said of most matches against Nym, Miranda, Wookies, Ghosts, or Bugs.

Palp Aces can be beaten by being better at flying - or by rolling better dice, sometimes. Except...

33 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

While that is true for the current incarnation of Palp aces, one can only hope Palp backed Soontir never comes back

...the absolute worst game of X-wing I've played featured an unhittable Soontir Fel!

Unhittable because he only came into range after time had been called and it was safe.

Palp Aces often also take an entire 75 minutes to resolve. I've been getting quite used to my 40 minute nuclear wars. ?

21 hours ago, CMDR Ytterium said:

I think that the lower presence of rebels in these tourneys is the community responding to the cancer that is efficient turrets and ghost/fenn

This is the problem to our lovely game.

When it started beyond control, and was made efficient every round damage dealer, it broke the game. The nerfs and buffs here and there haven't fixed this at all.

20 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

That's what's important, Palp aces may be strong, but it can be beaten and either way, you'll usually come out of it having enjoyed the match. The same cannot be said of most matches against Nym, Miranda, Wookies, Ghosts, or Bugs.

Palp Aces not only can be beaten, can easily get into a spot where it can be obliterated rather easily with bombs or turrets, they are locked into arcs.

No to mention, it's very hard squad to master and equally hard to fly over a tournament; turrets squads are the antithesis.

Yeah, the days when palp aces were super low risk is OVER; then, if you got caught once you could probably skate through it on luck and hypermodification.

Now, if you get caught once, you're dead to bombs, autodamage, or just sheer numbers of red dice.

The aces have improved a lot, but not commensurately to the amount of unblockable damage in the game.

Wave 6. If you want to go back and 'fix it' you've got to undo every expansion from Wave 7 onwards. That's not going to happen. And even if you do that all you do is replace the dominance of turrets with... the dominance of different turrets.

There's no going back, only forwards. Embrace what's real and work with it, learn to enjoy it.

PSWar - *urgh*- what is it good for? Absolute nothing!

Any of you guys check out the recent Kessel Run podcast Episode 65? It seems to me, Wookie-man Farley had quite a refreshing list of things he'd fix and @Chumbalaya rightfully liked it on the initial review; we all should. Got to admit, the removal of TLT, the removal of Veteran Instincts/Adaptability and making Regen only work to a max of the equipped ships initial shield value were three that were VERY logical, easy to implement, and will completely change the game in VERY good ways. ****, they all were actually brilliant......well done mates, well done!

Take a listen:

http://theheroictwentyeights.com/category/thekesselrun/

2 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Any of you guys check out the recent Kessel Run podcast Episode 65? It seems to me, Wookie-man Farley had quite a refreshing list of things he'd fix and @Chumbalaya rightfully liked it on the initial review; we all should. Got to admit, the removal of TLT, the removal of Veteran Instincts/Adaptability and making Regen only work to a max of the equipped ships initial shield value were three that were VERY logical, easy to implement, and will completely change the game in VERY good ways. ****, they all were actually brilliant......well done mates, well done!

Take a listen:

http://theheroictwentyeights.com/category/thekesselrun/

So when the game is reduced to 80% Dash mirror matches we should be happy?

12 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

and making Regen only work to a max of the equipped ships initial shield value were three that were VERY logical

I‘m afraid I don‘t see the logic in a one-use pulse ray shield

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I‘m afraid I don‘t see the logic in a one-use pulse ray shield

I mean, I used PRS quite a bit when it first came out, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I managed to use it more than once. It's attached to incredibly fragile ships.

I like the idea of regen having a separate, capped pool of shields that can be drawn from - using GONK as a model> You start the game with x shields on your ship and x in your regen pool, and each time you trigger the regen ability you can either put one from the pool onto your ship, or put one into the pool.

Means regen is much more limited without being hard-capped, and makes regen ships more predictable/penalised even when at full shields.

20 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I mean, I used PRS quite a bit when it first came out, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I managed to use it more than once. It's attached to incredibly fragile ships.

I like the idea of regen having a separate, capped pool of shields that can be drawn from - using GONK as a model> You start the game with x shields on your ship and x in your regen pool, and each time you trigger the regen ability you can either put one from the pool onto your ship, or put one into the pool.

Means regen is much more limited without being hard-capped, and makes regen ships more predictable/penalised even when at full shields.

You know as well as I do that a 2pt „discard to regen one shield once“ mod does not pose the same threat as one that regens potentially more. They lead to differenc reactions by your opponents because they are very different.

An upper limit to regen can be a good idea. „Your max shield value“ as upper limit is not.

Any solution similar to gonk seems much more reasonable, also because block/stress prevents it, and because the is a cost with the two actions.

Which all means I stand by my initial comment: I fail to see the logic in a one-use PRS

56 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

So when the game is reduced to 80% Dash mirror matches we should be happy?

Not sure why changes to those 3 things would suddenly automatically make Dash omnipotent since his natural predator is double reposition aces not any of those things. But assuming it's an argument that those things are keeping ace killers out of the meta, which I don't think I subscribe to, then the solution would seem to be... fix Dash too...?

I mean he's only balanced in the sense that high PS double reposition aces demolish him while he utterly destroys ships with low PS or no repositions. He's "balanced" but in such a hardcore rock, paper, scissors fashion that whether you win or lose to him has far more to do with list building than dials. I'm not convinced the kind of balanced that Dash represents is healthy.

21 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Which all means I stand by my initial comment: I fail to see the logic in a one-use PRS

If PRS, a card that hardly sees play at any level, is a casualty of fixing regen then it's an eminently acceptable one. Having said that, given that the function of all regen cards are already being altered by the proposal, a simple one liner stating that PRS receives X additional regen tokens easily solves the problem.

59 minutes ago, Makaze said:

If PRS, a card that hardly sees play at any level, is a casualty of fixing regen then it's an eminently acceptable one. Having said that, given that the function of all regen cards are already being altered by the proposal, a simple one liner stating that PRS receives X additional regen tokens easily solves the problem.

PRS is the easiest example to highlight the underlying problem of a bad fix that‘s tempting for its simplicity. I don‘t think that TLT has to stay the same because of HWKs, and similarly regen does not have to stay the same because of PRS.

I‘m saying that there are better ideas than using the initial shield value as hard cap, and PRS is an example why.

It might be a good idea to review why and where regen is actually a problem. R5D8, PRS or Gonk are not. R2D2 is only on Poe (maybe Corran, but....) and Miranda has her ability. Does regen really need a fix, or does the problem actually lie in point calculation and point fortresses?