Just now, AlexW said:

Rexpertise X7 Brath has been pretty good for me. I'll admit he's not going to be a tournament winner at a regional level, but I've won local tourneys with him and been competitive in larger ones.

that's the power of the x7 title

28 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Ion is half as effective against fat turrets

A little more than half, really. I've actually avoided giving a big ship a second Ion token because it's more valuable prescribing where they're willing to land. (And that's if they're aware ... if they're not aware, it's just a matter of waiting.)

possibly, but in my experience Vessery's just dead before he fires his ion twice

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

possibly, but in my experience Vessery's just dead before he fires his ion twice

Ooh, a portrait of Fickle and family!

4 hours ago, viedit said:

Quickdraw is absolutely fine. The only reason she is an auto-include is because she's the only small base empire ship that's a reasonable jouster in this bomb and munition diseased meta. Focus her in one turn and she gets off one return shot. The end.

The real reason she is so good--and possibly even broken, though what isn't these days?--is because she attacks more than once per round. This nearly doubles her offensive value that she brings to a squad during that round, and any other round she can manage a counterattack. In fact, if you look through the history of the meta, it's been largely influenced by ships that were capable of making extra attacks and (at least temporarily) doubling their offensive value in their list:

+ Corran Horn
+ Dengar
+ Ghost title (double-tap)
+ Quickdraw

All of these ships have been absolute forces in the meta at various points in X-Wing history. Unlike the other pilots (or Ghost-2 title in the VCX's case) in their ship, they can churn out extra attacks which is effectively like having more ships on the board at a negligible cost. Captain Jostero is the only pilot I can think of capable of bonus attacks that hasn't made a significant dent in the meta. He's actually pretty strong (and he's made the Top 4 of at least a few large US Regionals), but he is squishy and yoked to PS4, which is a very risky combo in this day and age.

5 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

The real reason she is so good--and possibly even broken, though what isn't these days?--is because she attacks more than once per round. This nearly doubles her offensive value that she brings to a squad during that round, and any other round she can manage a counterattack. In fact, if you look through the history of the meta, it's been largely influenced by ships that were capable of making extra attacks and (at least temporarily) doubling their offensive value in their list:

+ Corran Horn
+ Dengar
+ Ghost title (double-tap)
+ Quickdraw

All of these ships have been absolute forces in the meta at various points in X-Wing history. Unlike the other pilots (or Ghost-2 title in the VCX's case) in their ship, they can churn out extra attacks which is effectively like having more ships on the board at a negligible cost. Captain Jostero is the only pilot I can think of capable of bonus attacks that hasn't made a significant dent in the meta. He's actually pretty strong (and he's made the Top 4 of at least a few large US Regionals), but he is squishy and yoked to PS4, which is a very risky combo in this day and age.

You forgot FA Chewie.

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well, rexler brath costs 37 points naked, Quickdraw costs 29.

And quickdraw can get full mods way easier. Plus she has double the firing arc.

I love the TIE Defender, but its kinda expensive for what it can do.

Defender aces arent where its at though. Ryad and 2 generic x-7s which the right upgrades will pown a lot of lists with raw power and a well timed maneuver. for example i do 3 X7s with stealth device. people get so obsessed with pilot skill that they forget 6hp behind 4 agility and an evade token is really decent against many lists. i'd fly ryad at ps 6 against quickdraw at 9 anyday

1 minute ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

The real reason she is so good--and possibly even broken, though what isn't these days?--is because she attacks more than once per round. This nearly doubles her offensive value that she brings to a squad during that round, and any other round she can manage a counterattack. In fact, if you look through the history of the meta, it's been largely influenced by ships that were capable of making extra attacks and (at least temporarily) doubling their offensive value in their list:

+ Corran Horn
+ Dengar
+ Ghost title (double-tap)
+ Quickdraw

All of these ships have been absolute forces in the meta at various points in X-Wing history. Unlike the other pilots (or Ghost-2 title in the VCX's case) in their ship, they can churn out extra attacks which is effectively like having more ships on the board at a negligible cost. Captain Jostero is the only pilot I can think of capable of bonus attacks that hasn't made a significant dent in the meta. He's actually pretty strong (and he's made the Top 4 of at least a few large US Regionals), but he is squishy and yoked to PS4, which is a very risky combo in this day and age.

Did we just not talk about TIE/D-s?

Also, QD is not broken...

She is way more fragile than any of the other ships you mentioned. She cannot regen and she doesn't have tons of hull.

Being able to shoot twice, in and of itself is not broken (TIE-D for example)

Mixing it with other really powerful traits (regen, turret, etc) makes it obnoxious. But you can say that about everything. Too many good things on one ship, and it will be broken.

6 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Captain Jostero is the only pilot I can think of capable of bonus attacks that hasn't made a significant dent in the meta. He's actually pretty strong (and he's made the Top 4 of at least a few large US Regionals), but he is squishy and yoked to PS4, which is a very risky combo in this day and age.

The main issue with Jostero (and FA Chewie) compared to the other pilots is the amount of effort required to trigger them. Sooner or later somebody will shoot at Dengar and Quickdraw, and Corran and the Ghost can trigger their 2nd attack freely.

All this talk about double attacks makes me really miss cluster missile redline

55 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Uhh, I don't like your pedantic tone.

I didn't factor in the x7 price for the unholy reason of keeping the discussion on topic. @Alpha17 mentioned that the Defender shoots twice every round. Well, I would love to see the x7 do that, but it just can't. I tried.

I also mentioned Rexler because PS wise, he is the closest to QD. My point wasn't that Rexler is expensive, my point was that the chassis is expensive.

So..

Brath is a great comparison to QD.

way to go negative dude

1 minute ago, Commander Kaine said:

She is way more fragile than any of the other ships you mentioned. She cannot regen and she doesn't have tons of hull.

Being able to shoot twice, in and of itself is not broken (TIE-D for example)

I mean, sure. She is also significantly cheaper than the other ships on that list...

I'm not saying she needs to be nerfed or that she's more problematic than anything else that's defining the modern meta. I'm just saying you'd have to be a braindead goon to think running Backdraft or a generic instead of Quickdraw would ever be a good idea (just like no one in their right mind would ever run Etahn instead of Corran or Ghost2 instead of Ghost1 or Tel instead of Dengar).


Also, if TIE/Ds could make two true attacks per turn (instead of the 2nd being limited to the damage-mitigated cannons), it'd be a different story. If TIE/Ds could double tap with Manglers or HLCs, I'm pretty confident in saying they'd have been far more popular than X7s, even with the cost difference. It's the same reason BTLA-4 Y-Wings don't count, in my mind. That primary attack is so garbage that it doesn't matter that they can double-attack, unless you're looking to abuse an attack-opportunity upgrade like R3A2.

The Ghost is especially annoying.

Why does it have a 4 attack? The lore does not necessitate it, it is just another transport.

Why does it have an evade action? This is the most baffling thing to me. It's a slow, lumbering piece of durasteel. How can this ship evade hits, when so many others can't? It doesn't even make sense from the design of the ship.

Why does it have a system slot? It doesn't seem really advanced.


My problem is not that the ship has any one of these things... But it has all of them, for no good reason.

Compare it with the Decimator, which has neither of these abilities. Now, justify it to me. Why should the Ghost get any of these things, if the Deci doesn't?

2 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I mean, sure. She is also significantly cheaper than the other ships on that list...

I'm not saying she needs to be nerfed or that she's more problematic than anything else that's defining the modern meta. I'm just saying you'd have to be a braindead goon to think running Backdraft or a generic instead of Quickdraw would ever be a good idea

Well, call me crazy, but Backdraft is BAE

33 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

A little more than half, really. I've actually avoided giving a big ship a second Ion token because it's more valuable prescribing where they're willing to land. (And that's if they're aware ... if they're not aware, it's just a matter of waiting.)

Oh yeah, Ion is more than half effective. Besides the control it offers when you actually ion somebody, players avoid ion like the plague, big or small base. I've found it's a great way to force somebody to spend a focus and/or evade token that would have served them better avoiding the Defender's primary attack. ****, that helped win a game last night.

Maybe the game is just bad now?

19 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Why does it have a 4 attack? The lore does not necessitate it, it is just another transport.

Apparently in Rebels it one-shots Gozanti cruisers all the time and stuff.

19 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

Maybe the game is just bad now?

eh

it's got some few problem children, though even then nowhere near as problematic as ye ole Torpscouts and Dengar derivitives. Even the horror of Nym was toned down considerably

then again the fact that Dengar, who can still fart around with his amazing dial + pilot ability + expertise + k4 + countermeasures etc., isn't seen competitively is kind of scary

The ghost has four red dice because....

It is a game amd this is a big ship PS limited ship, worth big points, with a fixed front arc, unless you pay the phantom tax for a fixed rear arc bonus. It has a nice turretty thing at the front there for extra pew pewes if you want a lore justification.

it has turret access, but I would imagine that they were thinking that the fixed front arc had to be worth it, otherwise... No one would play the ship.

1 minute ago, Larky Bobble said:

The ghost has four red dice because....

It is a game amd this is a big ship PS limited ship, worth big points, with a fixed front arc, unless you pay the phantom tax for a fixed rear arc bonus. It has a nice turretty thing at the front there for extra pew pewes if you want a lore justification.

it has turret access, but I would imagine that they were thinking that the fixed front arc had to be worth it, otherwise... No one would play the ship.

Compare it with the Decimator. Do you still think so?

If the Deci had 4 die primary, and the Ghost 3, with nothing else changing, both ships would be fine.

The Ghost could still do 4 damage a round with TLT-s, and could still hurt you with its primary. Especially at Range 1. It would still have full mods on all attacks. It would still have the system and crew slots. it could still dock.

And the Deci would be finally on par with the Rebel PWT-s. It has 2 pairs of quad laser cannons on the model. That's gotta be something...

11 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Apparently in Rebels it one-shots Gozanti cruisers all the time and stuff.

Yeah, well if we take Rebels into consideration, blasters can take out an interdictor.

It is the ship of the Heroes. Of course it will be on the screen, doing crazy crazy stuff. Vader took out an entire squadron of rebels in Rebels, including an epic scale ship in a few volleys.

What happens in rebels, is hardly relevant.

6 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

sexy

Does it send Chivers down your spine?

37 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Does it send Chivers down your spine?

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

All this talk about double attacks makes me really miss cluster missile redline

I know....I know....

That darn timing chart.

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Why does it have a 4 attack? The lore does not necessitate it, it is just another transport.

Apparently in Rebels it one-shots EVERYTHING EXCEPT VADER all the time and stuff.

Ftfy

1 minute ago, GrimmyV said:

I know....I know....

That darn timing chart.

Ftfy

russian nesting doll quotes.

Agree, this is Amateur hour misdirection fake news bs. They are worried and telegraphing it. Can imagine a panicked pointy hairnblss meeting meeting after Adepticon triggering the article.