Yeah...

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

The least they could do is talk about the plethora of dominant top 16s and mirror match tournaments of new rebel garbage

The least they could do is not even put out preview articles...which they are succeeding at in spades!

3 hours ago, Kieransi said:

The article makes it sound like FFG isn't going to do anything about Ghosts, Sheathipedes, or Auzitucks, but they're getting ready to nerf Quickdraw. I assume that's going to create some pretty salty Imperial players.

And they referred to Quickdraw as male. Triggered.

Lol, did they go back and fix it (all because you were offended of course). The section you quoted in another post now reads "even while her wingmates changed from squad to squad"

Yeah, QD doesn't need a nerf as bad as some things. She is way ahead of the power curve compared to most ships though, and bad design or unfair/unfun mechanics being fixed shouldn't be dependent on making sure each faction is perfectly balanced with one another right?

My fix would be changing the way that FCS works with her ability. If she spends a focus and a target lock to modify the first shot, she no longer gets a free lock for the second shot. My favorite though, is to go into combat with only a focus, only to harpoon with the free target lock and second attack. Maybe just have the lock occur at the end of the round instead of immediately. Would that ruin everything?

Just curious about what people think here. If Miranda, Fenn, or the Lothal Rebel Ghost were imperial pieces instead, with everything else left exactly the same, would you see the same level of vitriol on the forums? There would be people complaining of course, there always are. Would it be comparable to the reactions we are seeing now?

Be honest with your opinions please. Those old and patient enough to remember, has there ever been an imperial piece complained about this much with so much hate, ridiculous gatekeeping, and spite thrown towards other players for just putting them on the table? Whisper or Palp maybe? Or where those just adjusted without a community uprising in the best timeline FFG could manage? Did the nerfs actually cause more of a shitfit on these forums than the unbalanced mechanics ever did?

@RebelProfundity , nice to hear they fixed it, lol.

I'm going to disagree with you on a QD nerf though. She might be unfair compared to, say, Turr Phennir, but she's not not unfair compared to even other Imperial stuff like RAC. She usually requires at least a fair amount of thought, and is at least nominally reliant on arcs.

QD, like Harpoons, shouldn't exist in an ideal game, but she's a neccesary evil required to balance out the game as is. If they nerf all the other things listed in that article, then and only then should they touch QD (or Harpoons for that matter).

meh, I don't see QD being so unstoppable as to merit any sort of change

Harpoons, though...well idk because so few people use them up here, but I hear they're pretty complained about.

But QD? ******* never heard a peep out of her supposed detractors. She can be counterplayed pretty readily, especially if you can nuke her hard enough for her ability to proc only once per game and ESPECIALLY if you only trigger aux arc shots

They're not nerfing Quickdraw, you nerds, they're trying to sell Q1 tourney kits

The article feels very manipulative, almost gas-lighty. The click-bait title just confirms this for me, like they know exactly who they're targeting and what they're trying to accomplish.

17 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

Lol, did they go back and fix it (all because you were offended of course). The section you quoted in another post now reads "even while her wingmates changed from squad to squad"

Yeah, QD doesn't need a nerf as bad as some things. She is way ahead of the power curve compared to most ships though, and bad design or unfair/unfun mechanics being fixed shouldn't be dependent on making sure each faction is perfectly balanced with one another right?

My fix would be changing the way that FCS works with her ability. If she spends a focus and a target lock to modify the first shot, she no longer gets a free lock for the second shot. My favorite though, is to go into combat with only a focus, only to harpoon with the free target lock and second attack. Maybe just have the lock occur at the end of the round instead of immediately. Would that ruin everything?

Just curious about what people think here. If Miranda, Fenn, or the Lothal Rebel Ghost were imperial pieces instead, with everything else left exactly the same, would you see the same level of vitriol on the forums? There would be people complaining of course, there always are. Would it be comparable to the reactions we are seeing now?

Be honest with your opinions please. Those old and patient enough to remember, has there ever been an imperial piece complained about this much with so much hate, ridiculous gatekeeping, and spite thrown towards other players for just putting them on the table? Whisper or Palp maybe? Or where those just adjusted without a community uprising in the best timeline FFG could manage? Did the nerfs actually cause more of a shitfit on these forums than the unbalanced mechanics ever did?

Okay. Do you actually play QD? Because it seems you don't know what the ability does.

You can't harpoon with the free target lock, since your second attack is primary only.

It's nice to read people's proposed nerfs when they misunderstand how the base ability works. QD is fine as it is, and needs no nerf.

Oh no, Imps got a Corran/Dengar, gotta nerf?

this is literally the first time I’ve heard anyone wanting to Nerf QD. If she hadn’t been in the winning list we would still be talking about what ever we were before, I guess Harpoons or Nymanda or Mauler Ghosts.

20 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

Lol, did they go back and fix it (all because you were offended of course). The section you quoted in another post now reads "even while her wingmates changed from squad to squad"

Yeah, QD doesn't need a nerf as bad as some things. She is way ahead of the power curve compared to most ships though, and bad design or unfair/unfun mechanics being fixed shouldn't be dependent on making sure each faction is perfectly balanced with one another right?

My fix would be changing the way that FCS works with her ability. If she spends a focus and a target lock to modify the first shot, she no longer gets a free lock for the second shot. My favorite though, is to go into combat with only a focus, only to harpoon with the free target lock and second attack. Maybe just have the lock occur at the end of the round instead of immediately. Would that ruin everything?

Just curious about what people think here. If Miranda, Fenn, or the Lothal Rebel Ghost were imperial pieces instead, with everything else left exactly the same, would you see the same level of vitriol on the forums? There would be people complaining of course, there always are. Would it be comparable to the reactions we are seeing now?

Be honest with your opinions please. Those old and patient enough to remember, has there ever been an imperial piece complained about this much with so much hate, ridiculous gatekeeping, and spite thrown towards other players for just putting them on the table? Whisper or Palp maybe? Or where those just adjusted without a community uprising in the best timeline FFG could manage? Did the nerfs actually cause more of a shitfit on these forums than the unbalanced mechanics ever did?

I’ll start with Quickdraw because I’m not seeing it. She’s a good ship. She can (if your opponents lets you) deal additional damage at the start of the game which is a cool ability. It is very limited and she isn’t invulnerable. Actually she is one of the most vulnerable pieces in the Imperial faction. Her ability and the consistency of her offensive mods let’s her be really good at this role.

I would argue that Whisper, Vader, Fel, Inquisitor, Kylo Ren, Ryad and Vessery are all actually better Imperial pieces, they just are t better in this meta. Nym (and Fenn) pushed PS 11 and only Vader and Quickdraw can get there without sacrifice - though clearly both prefer other EPTs. Vader is a classic arc dodger with no Autothrusters. He is limited by his ability to either mod for Defense or keep guns on target. Vader must leave fights, Quickdraw gets bonuses on the way out. She is just better when turrets and high defence are the major features of the top gatekeeper lists.

Quickdraw also has 6 health which is pretty important against Bombs. Either way Quickdraw is a ship that can die. She has lots of upgrade options but mostly she cannot go hardcore defensive.

Yes her point cost is very good when compared to the X-Wing, T70 and Khiraxz.

But nerf? Really? Have we forgotten that Dengar is really really good already?

The other part of the question is super interesting.

Fenn Rau (Sheathe) in Imperials - completely broken. It does mean you will choose between Palp and Rau but the abilities strip away offensive mods which make your already high defensive ships much better at defending. The points cost is so low that suddenly you have a great ship to accompany Kylo and give him some PS11 options while still getting a really decent other ace to go with them.

Miranda - she would have less synergy. No Sabine for bomb bonus, no 3p0, Lowie, Selflessness (and Biggs), to keep her alive through the early game. Her points cost probably prohibits her being with Palp, but a light TLT only Miranda with an Ace and Palp is probably pretty strong. A lot of the issues with Miranda are the ability to keep her alive in a joust and get her to the endgame where she can’t easily be killed. But even then regen with Vader crew, or a decent unkillable ship with other Imperial crew is still likely a problem.

Lothal - well if you have Fenn then it’s still likely an issue unless you have no titles and no Phantom. Double crew though.

3 hours ago, Arkanta974 said:

Quickdraw nerf : "Once per game when you lose a token shield, you may perform a primary attack"

"token shield", lol.

like the shield is only symbolic of protection, because we all know some stupid harpoons or mine will wipe you regardless

37 minutes ago, RebelProfundity said:

Just curious about what people think here. If Miranda, Fenn, or the Lothal Rebel Ghost were imperial pieces instead, with everything else left exactly the same, would you see the same level of vitriol on the forums? There would be people complaining of course, there always are. Would it be comparable to the reactions we are seeing now?

Be honest with your opinions please. Those old and patient enough to remember, has there ever been an imperial piece complained about this much with so much hate, ridiculous gatekeeping, and spite thrown towards other players for just putting them on the table? Whisper or Palp maybe? Or where those just adjusted without a community uprising in the best timeline FFG could manage? Did the nerfs actually cause more of a shitfit on these forums than the unbalanced mechanics ever did?

Ok, I'll bite.

The Ghost. It's a Decimator with one less crew, access to System slot, a better dial, and the ability to equip a secondary turret instead of a primary turret. It's the same health with a shift in how they distribute shields vs hull and has access to the evade. It would make an interesting Palp shuttle and if you had a "RAC" Ghost with synced turret that would be very fun to try. But It wouldn't be OP. You'd be pushing close to 65-70 points into it. That's a HUGE MOV bleed and really cuts down on who you pair with it. Really comes down to pilot abilities and points. There's not a ton of Empire crew options that would make it positively abusive unless some of them include an EPT. Then it would get ugly fast.

Fenn shuttle would be broken AF in Imperials. PS11 coordinate off a PTL Inquisitor or Silencer would be so broken and infuriating you'd have people flipping tables in rage. One big giant NOOOOOOPE there. He's just far too powerful in a faction that has double reposition aces that can utterly abuse that end of activation board state.

Miranda is interesting and needs to be looked at in more than a vacuum. She's highly buffed by Sabine. Imperials don't have sabine. They don't have Cad Bane. That direct bomb threat is somewhat reduced without Sabine. She'd provide Imperials a regen 50 point ace and combined with a Kylo would be a positively annoying list to play against. I think she'd be equally as annoying without being quite as intimidating. Combine a somewhat "thin" 43'ish point Miranda with Palpshuttle and a lean Omega leader and that's an incredibly powerful list.

I guess I don't get the QD love/hate. She's good, and priced nicely, but not amazing. She gets to shoot twice per round, at the cost of a shield. Every TIE/D gets to shoot twice a round, without losing a shield, and with the added control benefits of a tractor beam, or ion/flechette cannon at only a few more points and a lower PS value. But then again, all I know is the Defender, so I might be missing something.

2 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I guess I don't get the QD love. She gets to shoot twice per round, at the cost of a shield. Every TIE/D gets to shoot twice a round, without losing a shield, and with the added control benefits of a tractor beam, or ion/flechette cannon at only a few more points and a lower PS value. But then again, all I know is the Defender, so I might be missing something.

Well, rexler brath costs 37 points naked, Quickdraw costs 29.

And quickdraw can get full mods way easier. Plus she has double the firing arc.

I love the TIE Defender, but its kinda expensive for what it can do.

3 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

Just who wrote this article? There's a weird "the meta is fine just look at this one system open!" stance to the whole thing. I hope that this is just the opinion of some random guy and not what FFG actually thinks. Because if it's the latter, we have problems. The whole point of the Adepticon fiasco was to get FFG's attention on the state of the game. Let's hope that's not in vain.

I mean, they're not going to come out and say "Our game has all these problems!" in a blog post meant to hype the game and this particular tournament series, that'd be nonsense. I'm sure they're aware, just as usual don't expect whatever change eventually comes to be very quick in doing so.

Just now, Commander Kaine said:

Well, rexler brath costs 37 points naked, Quickdraw costs 29.

And quickdraw can get full mods way easier. Plus she has double the firing arc.

I love the TIE Defender, but its kinda expensive for what it can do.

I'll agree with that, but I still don't see anything amazing about QD. Not enough for her to be an auto-include. But I guess that's just me.

3 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

I guess I don't get the QD love/hate. She's good, and priced nicely, but not amazing. She gets to shoot twice per round, at the cost of a shield. Every TIE/D gets to shoot twice a round, without losing a shield, and with the added control benefits of a tractor beam, or ion/flechette cannon at only a few more points and a lower PS value. But then again, all I know is the Defender, so I might be missing something.

She's a "I DARE YOU TO SHOOT ME" ship. At PS11 she can get into good position to really screw with your head. Do you really want to shoot me at range one when I've got full mods on you...or do you want that slightly less threatening target at range 2-3 that won't shoot back with 4 dice? She's getting her FCS locked down more than likely before the opponent. Often has a palp backing for defensive management and 6 health that lasts surprisingly longer than you'd think.

23 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well, rexler brath costs 37 points naked, Quickdraw costs 29.

And quickdraw can get full mods way easier. Plus she has double the firing arc.

I love the TIE Defender, but its kinda expensive for what it can do.

uhh...Brath shouldn't be a good standard of comparison for anything

Rexlar Brath is kinda of expensive for what he can do, and his ability is stupidly situational for little to no benefit (discarding a dice modifying token for a chance at relevant face-up damage cards, assuming face-down damage cards where dealt during the attack)

and you didn't even factor in the x7 price for some unholy reason

in general, the x7 actually stacks up quite well against QD because you can clearly see how it tanks like crazy in exchange for not getting the double tap. Problem here is that the defense doesn't hold up to super-turrets, so QD's greater offensive capabilities become more desirable. If you're going to die, because you can't ******* outplay turrets unless they brain themselves on asteroids, you're gonna want to do as much damage as possible beforehand.

the only thing that really pushes QD theoretically out of hand is harpoons, because harpoons are kind of incredible. Now Martyn didn't use harpoons...but he also used Epsilon ace. The man's obviously some kind of unhinged prodigy independent of what QD brought to the table

6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

uhh...Brath shouldn't be a good standard of comparison for anything

Rexlar Brath is kinda of expensive for what he can do, and his ability is stupidly situational for little to no benefit (discarding a dice modifying token for a chance at relevant face-up damage cards, assuming face-down damage cards where dealt during the attack)

and you didn't even factor in the x7 price for some unholy reason

in general, the x7 actually stacks up quite well against QD because you can clearly see how it tanks like crazy in exchange for not getting the double tap. Problem here is that the defense doesn't hold up to super-turrets, so QD's greater offensive capabilities become more desirable. If you're going to die, because you can't ******* outplay turrets unless they brain themselves on asteroids, you're gonna want to do as much damage as possible beforehand.

the only thing that really pushes QD theoretically out of hand is harpoons, because harpoons are kind of incredible. Now Martyn didn't use harpoons...but he also used Epsilon ace. The man's obviously some kind of unhinged prodigy independent of what QD brought to the table

Uhh, I don't like your pedantic tone.

I didn't factor in the x7 price for the unholy reason of keeping the discussion on topic. @Alpha17 mentioned that the Defender shoots twice every round. Well, I would love to see the x7 do that, but it just can't. I tried.

I also mentioned Rexler because PS wise, he is the closest to QD. My point wasn't that Rexler is expensive, my point was that the chassis is expensive.

So..

Brath is a great comparison to QD.

"great" here meaning "misleading"

Brath is not a good comparison to QD because he sucks and should never serve as a benchmark to ANYTHING in the game, other than to prove how much said thing sucks

You'd get closer with TIE/D Vessery (and he actually works very well with anything with FCS...hey, QD!) for modified double-taps, albeit with a control-cannon that can fire unlimited times as opposed to 1-3 additional primary weapon attacks that can do more than 1 damage

and that's actually a hard thing to compare across because the given meta once again favors QD. Ion is half as effective against fat turrets, and most don't give a flying **** about flechette stress (or even t-beam tokens or jamming...if you'd ever use those). Ion will however ruin Miranda/Nym's **** so that's something

38 minutes ago, viedit said:

She's a "I DARE YOU TO SHOOT ME" ship. At PS11 she can get into good position to really screw with your head. Do you really want to shoot me at range one when I've got full mods on you...or do you want that slightly less threatening target at range 2-3 that won't shoot back with 4 dice? She's getting her FCS locked down more than likely before the opponent. Often has a palp backing for defensive management and 6 health that lasts surprisingly longer than you'd think.

In my experience, QD is a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' ship. Do you shoot it first, hoping you take all the shields in one round, but eating a revenge shot early? Or do you leave it for later, when you risk spreading the revenge shots over several rounds?

The only thing good about Brath is his PS.

17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

"great" here meaning "misleading"

Brath is not a good comparison to QD because he sucks and should never serve as a benchmark to ANYTHING in the game, other than to prove how much said thing sucks

You'd get closer with TIE/D Vessery (and he actually works very well with anything with FCS...hey, QD!) for modified double-taps, albeit with a control-cannon that can fire unlimited times as opposed to 1-3 additional primary weapon attacks that can do more than 1 damage

and that's actually a hard thing to compare across because the given meta once again favors QD. Ion is half as effective against fat turrets, and most don't give a flying **** about flechette stress (or even t-beam tokens or jamming...if you'd ever use those). Ion will however ruin Miranda/Nym's **** so that's something

Rexpertise X7 Brath has been pretty good for me. I'll admit he's not going to be a tournament winner at a regional level, but I've won local tourneys with him and been competitive in larger ones.