14 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

That seems entirely reasonable. Little small for a Brigade though. Salt Company? I guess we could always just run with the partisan grandiose. After all, we had a General in charge of a ground attack comprised of like 20 commandos (and 400 radicalized locals whose god told them to join the fight).

Salt Company and our transports name is The Salty Crait.

Lt. IceQube reporting in... we have just achieved land fall. "I only have one rule. Everyone fights. No one lives. If you don't do your job, I'll choke you myself."

Also, you are not authorized for bullets, just flamethrowers; else it's game over, man!

11 hours ago, PT106 said:

Well, I played my first game of Legion today. It is a fun game, however I would second the though about higher amount of randomness and also note that I think that the game would be a bit of a mess in a competitive setting because of all the terrain/cover/line of sight measurements/implied imprecision and a messy movement over existing terrain. So it's likely to end up being a fun and casual one for me.

Same for me. Casual/league play all the way, and oh boy .... I'll be rarely moving my terrain all over town to play!

12 hours ago, Darth Lupine said:

Armada is still the primary, sold off my Xwing for Legion. Blood Legionnaires, reporting.

When you sold them off, what did you get for them? I am considering the same, but I don't have much of the new stuff (post-wave 8 or so). Worth it or should I save it so that my kid (currently 2) and I can play when he is older?

Armada partial refugee here too. Still collecting pretty ships.

Also decided to sell my xwing collection. Haven't played since wave 10, may as well let someone else. No bites locally though, so probably to eBay next week.

Armada is still my primary. Miranda-Wing ... X, yeah that's a good letter for it.

Legion, she's beautiful and new and just called me a scruffy nerf herder ..

1 hour ago, ryanabt said:

When you sold them off, what did you get for them? I am considering the same, but I don't have much of the new stuff (post-wave 8 or so). Worth it or should I save it so that my kid (currently 2) and I can play when he is older?

I only had stuff up to the Decimator and the Punisher. I sold it to a friend that was just starting out in Xwing, and I only had Imperials; not going to quote a price, but it was enough to pretty much get me everything I wanted for Legion with enough left over for wave two. ?

1 minute ago, Darth Lupine said:

I only had stuff up to the Decimator and the Punisher. I sold it to a friend that was just starting out in Xwing, and I only had Imperials; not going to quote a price, but it was enough to pretty much get me everything I wanted for Legion with enough left over for wave two. ?

Sounds like I should put it online and see what I can get. Since I am on the fence, I can be patient for a price I want.

3 minutes ago, ryanabt said:

Sounds like I should put it online and see what I can get. Since I am on the fence, I can be patient for a price I want.

I advertised it on fb, and in private to a few friends, and one picked it up.

To let everyone know my wargaming status:

I originated in the WHFB community and played from the middle of 7th ed. through all of 8th ed. and I still harbor resentment at GW for killing my baby. I loved the aesthetics and narrative of the game and although I played in tournaments, I always cared more about the image than winning. I also played a little Xwing on the side. When WHFB died (was Frankensteined into a monster that is), I searched for a game to love and looked at Warmahordes, Saga, Armada, and Bolt Action. I still have minis for all of these, but Armada is the one I love the most. I haven't touched Warmahordes or Xwing since I started playing Armada and only play Bolt Action with my former Fantasy friends.

I look forward to Legion because I miss modeling/painting and because I think the narrative side and aesthetics will give me something that Armada hasn't. Nevertheless, the two are different enough that I think they will scratch different itches: tight ruleset with more controlled tactics vs. narrative and more luck based.

I'm not giving up on Armada, still 100% in but enjoying Legion too.

1 hour ago, ryanabt said:

To let everyone know my wargaming status:

I originated in the WHFB community and played from the middle of 7th ed. through all of 8th ed. and I still harbor resentment at GW for killing my baby. I loved the aesthetics and narrative of the game and although I played in tournaments, I always cared more about the image than winning. I also played a little Xwing on the side. When WHFB died (was Frankensteined into a monster that is), I searched for a game to love and looked at Warmahordes, Saga, Armada, and Bolt Action. I still have minis for all of these, but Armada is the one I love the most. I haven't touched Warmahordes or Xwing since I started playing Armada and only play Bolt Action with my former Fantasy friends.

I look forward to Legion because I miss modeling/painting and because I think the narrative side and aesthetics will give me something that Armada hasn't. Nevertheless, the two are different enough that I think they will scratch different itches: tight ruleset with more controlled tactics vs. narrative and more luck based.

Dude, I played Warhammer, both Fantasy and 40k, since first edition. Heck, I was a GW Outrider for a couple of years. I feel you....right after end times, I sold off my remainder GW and swore off anything but Star Wars games forever. Haven't looked back since.

8 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

Dude, I played Warhammer, both Fantasy and 40k, since first edition. Heck, I was a GW Outrider for a couple of years. I feel you....right after end times, I sold off my remainder GW and swore off anything but Star Wars games forever. Haven't looked back since.

Honestly, the way they killed off Fantasy was a final shafting of the WHF community. Anyway, it got me. I still have WE, Beastmen, and Lizards. I hope to play 8th ed or 9th age with my kid some day, but I won't give that company any more of my money.

20 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Demo game was fun, but good Lord the randomness in Legion is an order of magnitude greater than Armada. Reminds me a lot of 40K that way, which shouldn't be too surprising, I suppose.

For me, it's not even the randomness, it's just that the game feels a whole lot like you set up your dudes across from each other, then you roll dice at each other. There's only so much responding one can do to initial deployments, and a lot hinges on activation bids / blind draws.

It's not unfun, it just isn't the sort of game that's likely to really hold my attention or keep my invested. Which has been the same experience I've had with other table-top skirmish games (Warhammer 40k, Infinity, Necromunda, AT-43). They all sound really cool in my head and they're fun to geek out over, especially squad-building, but like the actual on-game tables always leave me feeling a little disappointed and wanting more. My demos with Legion haven't convinced me it'll be any different.

Guess it's just my own personal preferences as a gamer.

14 hours ago, Tvayumat said:

When is someone going to drag @Ardaedhel in here?

Ain't no double arc on an AT-ST.

I would love to, because it looks awesome. Unfortunately, I can make either enough time or enough money to play both. :/

10 hours ago, Barney said:

Really hoping for some scenarios based around boarding actions. A small rebel force battling through endless stormtrooper squads to reach a goal.

2 hours gaming to add a raid token to your opponents ship maybe!!

An ISD hanger themed board and terrain would be super cool.

A mat already exists ...

http://www.tinywargames.co.uk/online-store/SWhangar-6x4-p97716054

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

For me, it's not even the randomness, it's just that the game feels a whole lot like you set up your dudes across from each other, then you roll dice at each other. There's only so much responding one can do to initial deployments, and a lot hinges on activation bids / blind draws.

It's not unfun, it just isn't the sort of game that's likely to really hold my attention or keep my invested. Which has been the same experience I've had with other table-top skirmish games (Warhammer 40k, Infinity, Necromunda, AT-43). They all sound really cool in my head and they're fun to geek out over, especially squad-building, but like the actual on-game tables always leave me feeling a little disappointed and wanting more. My demos with Legion haven't convinced me it'll be any different.

Guess it's just my own personal preferences as a gamer.

I'm just happy to see the people come over from Armada to say how Legion is not as good as Armada. I miss you guys.

11 hours ago, Don Henderson fan club said:

Yes, I am aiming to use the Legion rules in more of a role-playing/campaign way. Gaining experience and skills, a bit like in Legends of the Old West ... so, Legends of the Outer Rim!

Annnnnd now I want to start writing Mordeheim like campaign rules....

I think there's more meat to Legion's system over Armada, and it hinges more on risk mitigation both on and off the field.

In Armada, the only opportunity to mitigate risk was in your list design - take Ord Experts in case you whiff, take anti-squadron tools if you think you'll run into squadrons, etc. Once the game began, activation order was an 'illusion of choice' - there was only one optimal ship to activate first, then second, etc. and there was no chance those ships would activate in a different order.

In Legion, you have the same risk management opportunities in list design, but now also on the field of play. Activation is variable - and fantastically so - and a good commander must account for this throughout the course of the game. There may still only be one optimal unit to activate first, but there is no longer a guarantee they will do so. That 'risk' is what makes the game great, and the ability to manage that risk is what makes a commander great.

11 minutes ago, RhymerNation said:

I think there's more meat to Legion's system over Armada, and it hinges more on risk mitigation both on and off the field.

In Armada, the only opportunity to mitigate risk was in your list design - take Ord Experts in case you whiff, take anti-squadron tools if you think you'll run into squadrons, etc. Once the game began, activation order was an 'illusion of choice' - there was only one optimal ship to activate first, then second, etc. and there was no chance those ships would activate in a different order.

In Legion, you have the same risk management opportunities in list design, but now also on the field of play. Activation is variable - and fantastically so - and a good commander must account for this throughout the course of the game. There may still only be one optimal unit to activate first, but there is no longer a guarantee they will do so. That 'risk' is what makes the game great, and the ability to manage that risk is what makes a commander great.

But the outcomes of attacks (Definitively one of the most influential mechanics of either game) are passed through two layers of randomization with very little player influence, in Legion.

Player influence effectively boils down to managing Dodge and Aim tokens, both of which encourage firing units to simply take up a singular defensive position and stand there, rolling dice over and over in an attempt to overcome the RNG. This will be helped *somewhat* through the introduction of units like Leia who can apparently toss these tokens to friendlies, but ultimately you're going to get in cover and stay there, pew pewing as effectively as you can at easily predicted targets 90% of the time. (Source: I just made that statistic up, but it's high)

There is certainly some influence in how hard you push an objective, but how effectively you can do that will be determined almost entirely by which player is most successfully rolling better. I personally haven't mastered the skill of rolling dice better than my opponents, yet.

2 minutes ago, Tvayumat said:

But the outcomes of attacks (Definitively one of the most influential mechanics of either game) are passed through two layers of randomization with very little player influence, in Legion.

Player influence effectively boils down to managing Dodge and Aim tokens, both of which encourage firing units to simply take up a singular defensive position and stand there, rolling dice over and over in an attempt to overcome the RNG.

There is certainly some influence in how hard you push an objective, but how effectively you can do that will be determined almost entirely by which player is most successfully rolling better. I personally haven't mastered the skill of rolling dice better than my opponents, yet.

If you'll allow a brief side slip on this one, I think you might agree that Armada was in a similar state at first release. I would agree each trooper unit in play currently does have a 'dominant' strategy, and the tools and variety available on the Unit Choice/List Design are so limited that it certainly could boil down to the situation you express - and most certainly so in the Demo environment.

I think you can begin to see some of those Rock/Paper/Scissors mechanics start to bubble up, but they're not all there yet. My response to a bunch of dug-in troopers should be something different than a similarly sized bunch of dug-in troopers. It might be an AT-RT with a Flamethrower - or (in a few months) a Snowtrooper assault squad with a Flamethrower attachment.

I would argue putting myself in an engagement such as you describe is the result of poorly managing my risk - if the odds are even, I haven't done my job as a commander.

However, I would agree the opportunity to create those asymmetric situations is fairly limited right now, given the limited variety of units/upgrades available in the game.

MOTF crew has landed

4 minutes ago, RhymerNation said:

If you'll allow a brief side slip on this one, I think you might agree that Armada was in a similar state at first release. I would agree each trooper unit in play currently does have a 'dominant' strategy, and the tools and variety available on the Unit Choice/List Design are so limited that it certainly could boil down to the situation you express - and most certainly so in the Demo environment.

I think you can begin to see some of those Rock/Paper/Scissors mechanics start to bubble up, but they're not all there yet. My response to a bunch of dug-in troopers should be something different than a similarly sized bunch of dug-in troopers. It might be an AT-RT with a Flamethrower - or (in a few months) a Snowtrooper assault squad with a Flamethrower attachment.

I would argue putting myself in an engagement such as you describe is the result of poorly managing my risk - if the odds are even, I haven't done my job as a commander.

However, I would agree the opportunity to create those asymmetric situations is fairly limited right now, given the limited variety of units/upgrades available in the game.

Can't disagree.

A lot is going to depend on where the first few expansion waves take us.

The early days of Armada were a bleak affair.

4 minutes ago, Tvayumat said:

Can't disagree.

A lot is going to depend on where the first few expansion waves take us.

The early days of Armada were a bleak affair.

And to that I can heartily agree. The appearance of Rebel Commandos with Sharpshooter, Snowtroopers with Flamethrowers, etc. does seem like we're headed in the right direction.

Too early to tell if they provide a similar 'illusion of choice'.

And now to see if 3 unarmed AT-RTs can serve as an effective Melee Assault Force for digging out troops

love armada, but not much support in my area. folks cry about the squadron game, how much it cost, how long games take, how complicated it is, etc etc

but these same group have no issue with legion time, or cost of legion. should them x wing cost more, etc etc.

so i wait a few months and see how the local support is 1st.