Well how often is a nemesis going to have a high discipline vs how often are they going to have 2 or 3 adversary?

5 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Well how often is a nemesis going to have a high discipline vs how often are they going to have 2 or 3 adversary?

High Level Inquisitors?

As the Move power is used as a ranged attack action, can I spend maneuvers to Aim, thus getting myself some fancy blue dice?

44 minutes ago, Volkomor said:

As the Move power is used as a ranged attack action, can I spend maneuvers to Aim, thus getting myself some fancy blue dice?

Yep, which was confirmed by the devs at some point in the past.

Just now, Donovan Morningfire said:

Yep, which was confirmed by the devs at some point in the past.

Very nice! Thanks!

1 hour ago, vilainn6 said:

High Level Inquisitors?

Who also have high adversary as well.

I run an Old Republic campaign so Move comes up a lot. I run all Force powers with "roll the FD first, see how many pips you get/what you can do, then make the skill check."

From there I think it's reasonably simple:

Force Push: You shove a person (or object) with the intent of causing harm, like throwing them into a wall. This does 10 damage flat minus Soak (assuming they are Sil 1). If they are a Nemesis, they resist with Discipline versus Athletics/Discipline.

Force Slam: You throw a person up into the air and slam them down. Since this is obviously incredibly broken with fall damage, I just treat it the same way as push with a different narrative description.

Force Throw: You pick up a person/object with the intention of throwing them at another person/object. This deals 10*Sil damage minus Soak and minus Reflect, and the check is a normal Discipline ranged attack (which means the enemy gets to add Adversary and Ranged Defense, but not an actual skill).

On 5/26/2018 at 6:02 PM, vilainn6 said:

High Level Inquisitors?

Unless the GM deliberately builds the Inquisitor as having a low Willpower and no ranks in Discipline, it's going to be easier to toss them with Move if you go by Daeglan's interpretation that as a combat check the PC's Discipline check can't be made into an opposed check, since the difficulty would cap out at 2 red dice; base of 1 purple for a Silhouette 1 object, upgraded three times for Adversary 3.

For resisting with Discipline, you've got:

Chiss Mercenary (F&D pg418, Will 2, Discipline 3, Range Def 1, Adversary 2) for an opposed difficulty of 2 red, 1 purple instead of 1 red, 1 purple, 1 black.

Stalking Acklay (F&D pg414, Will 3, Adversary 1, Silhouette 2) for an opposed difficulty of 1 red, 2 purple instead of 1 red, 1 purple.

Fallen Apprentice (F&D pg412, Will 2, Discipline 3, Adversary 1) for an opposed difficulty of 2 red, 1 purple instead of 1 red.

Fallen Master (F&D pg412, Will 4, Discipline 4, Adversary 2, Range Def 1) for an opposed difficulty of 4 red instead of 1 red, 1 purple, 1 black.

Murderous Fugitive (F&D pg413, Will 3, Discipline 2, Adversary 2) for an opposed difficulty of 2 red, 1 purple instead of 1 red, 1 purple.

Imperial Assassin (F&D, pg406, Will 3, Discipline 3, Adversary 2, Range Def 1) for an opposed difficulty of 3 red instead of 1 red, 1 purple, 1 black.

Hutt Slave Dealer (F&D pg405, Will 5) for an opposed difficulty of 5 purple instead of 2 purple*
*this presumes the adversary is Silhouette 2, which is not mentioned in the stat block

To be clear, the first set of difficulty pools are if the PC's use of Move is treated as an opposed check and going with the default of resisting with the Nemesis' Discipline skill, while the second set is the difficulty pool if going by Daeglan's assumption that it's a combat check and thus cannot be opposed.

In almost every instance, it's a much easier check to make if treated as a combat check rather than an opposed check, which I'm sure will set well with the folks that feel the Move power is broken and easy to abuse enough as is.

So if the GM wants the PC to be able to toss major bad guys around like rag dolls, than the "it's a combat check no matter if the Nemesis is the one being hurled or having things hurled at them!" mindset is the way to go. Just be warned that if a PC with Force Rating of 2 or more decides to even partially specialize in Move (2 Range upgrades, 1 Strength upgrade, Control upgrade to hurl objects), then your Nemesis opponents might as well be rag dolls as they are going to be tossed around quite easily, not only for damage but simply putting the Nemesis wherever they want on the battlefield.

You can also use Athletics check to resist move not just discipline.

Hurling objects or minions at things should be a ranged combat check.

Hurling Nemesis at people should be an opposed check discipline or athletics.

Otherwise its a ranged attack.

Now lets put a reality check on the whole force 2 people tossing people like rag dolls.

Its not even close to statistically likely on a regular basis. You need 1 to activate 1 for range 1 for strength thats 3 force pips on 2 dice. Especially when you have a 60% chance to pull single blacks on each die.

Then you have to look at damage every single person in the group can pull an easy 10+ damage that can crit. Some will be pulling much greater numbers at a lower xp total then this 2 Force always pulling 3 force pips dude.

5 hours ago, Decorus said:

Its not even close to statistically likely on a regular basis. You need 1 to activate 1 for range 1 for strength thats 3 force pips on 2 dice. Especially when you have a 60% chance to pull single blacks on each die.

With all three range upgrades purchased, I'd be less worried about the damage and more concerned with the PC being able to move the target to pretty much wherever they want on the battlefield, given the dev clarification from some time back that the Range upgrades affect both the distance you can move something and the distance at which you can target something.

After all, 10+successes damage that can be lessened by soak value isn't that big a deal when that PC can pick up that sniper who's sitting at Extreme Range and plunk the guy right down in front of the melee-focused lightsaber wielder whose weapon has been tuned for damage output (highly-modded Ilum/Mephite/Krayt Dragon pearl crystal + extended hilt). Add a couple of advantage and give the saber-wielder a boost die while you're at it to better the odds of a critical injury being inflicted, or a Triumph to render the target prone (not strictly RAW but I doubt most GMs would balk at spending a Triumph that way), or even do both if your dice results give you the opportunity. Or conversely, take that melee-monster NPC and plunk them somewhere out at long or extreme range where the party members with ranged weapons can shoot the bad guy while he burns maneuvers just to get back into melee range.

Of course, the PC with Move doesn't always need to be able to generate 3 Force points every time they use power, and for most fights can probably get by with just 2 Force points (1 for the base power, plus 1 for either Strength upgrade or Range upgrade as the situation warrants), as the amount of Advantage that the PC is likely to generate against such a low difficulty against most foes means that PC is going to have a number of options to muck with the target, ranging from adding a setback die to the target's next check, disarming them, or even knocking them prone, even if the amount of damage is negligible; heck, you could even miss and deal no damage, but still screw with the target through all the things you can spend your Advantages on.

A gaming buddy of mine even suggested the notion of purchasing the Magnitude upgrades, and then hurling a bunch of Silhouette 0 objects; base difficulty for such an effort is 1 purple, and a PC that's focused on Move is going to have a minimum Willpower of 3 and a Discipline of 3 or 4 by the point this trick becomes viable. Again, with all those Advantage and/or Triumphs you're bound to be rolling, that translates to a fair number of hits, ones that could be used to batter a minion group and quite possibly take out a minion or three, or simply batter a single adversary with several hits that's going to chip away at their wound threshold (or strain threshold if they've got Reflect, since as a GM I allow Reflect to be used against objects hurled by Move).

47 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

 A gaming buddy  of mine even suggested the notion of purchasing the Magnitude upg  rades, and then hurling a bunch of Silh  o  uette 0  objects;  b  ase difficulty for such an effort is 1 purple, and a PC that's focused on Move is going to have a minimum Willpower   of 3 and a Dis  cipline of 3 or 4 by the  p  oint t  his  tri  ck becomes viable. Again, with all those A  dv  antage and/or Triumphs you're bound  to be rolling, that translates to a fair  numb  er of hits, ones that could b  e used to  batter a mi  nio  n  group and  qui  te possibly tak  e o  ut a  minio  n or three, or simply batter a single adversary with several h  its that's  going  to chip away at their wound threshold (or strain threshold if t  he  y've got Reflect, since as a GM I allow Reflect to be used against objects hurled by Move). 

I'm trying to understand this part. Are you able to attack the same target multiple times using the magnitude upgrade? So, for example we have a force user with Move, Control (to attack) two range and two magnitude upgrades. They could make a discipline check to attack with sil 0 objects and assuming 3 FP rulled and a successful discipline check (1 FP) they could attack out to range long (1 FP) for 5 damage and then using the magnitude upgrade hit them two more times for 5 damage from the FP used to activate magnitude. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, would damage be added for each uncancelled success since it's an attack?

1 minute ago, Ahrimon said:

I'm trying to understand this part. Are you able to attack the same target multiple times using the magnitude upgrade? So, for example we have a force user with Move, Control (to attack) two range and two magnitude upgrades. They could make a discipline check to attack with sil 0 objects and assuming 3 FP rulled and a successful discipline check (1 FP) they could attack out to range long (1 FP) for 5 damage and then using the magnitude upgrade hit them two more times for 5 damage from the FP used to activate magnitude. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, would damage be added for each uncancelled success since it's an attack?

Yes. You treat it like autofire.

10 hours ago, Ahrimon said:

I'm trying to understand this part. Are you able to attack the same target multiple times using the magnitude upgrade? So, for example we have a force user with Move, Control (to attack) two range and two magnitude upgrades. They could make a discipline check to attack with sil 0 objects and assuming 3 FP rulled and a successful discipline check (1 FP) they could attack out to range long (1 FP) for 5 damage and then using the magnitude upgrade hit them two more times for 5 damage from the FP used to activate magnitude. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, would damage be added for each uncancelled success since it's an attack?

Under the full description of the hurl objects Control upgrade, it spells out that you can attack with multiple objects against either one target or against multiple targets, but doing so follows the rules for autofire as outlined in under the weapon quality of the same name in the Equipment chapter.