The Force user can hurl objects to damage targets, by making a ranged
combat check combined with a Move power check, dealing damage
equal to 10 times si lhouette.

what is the skill check you would make for the: Raged attack to hurl objects to injure?

Discipline the difficulty equals sil of object + defense/upgrades of target.

Its in the sidebar.

can someone give me an example of this?

Sure. You, a Force user with a 4 in Willpower and a 2 in Discipline, try to hurl a crate of silhouette 1 at an enemy with Adversary 1 and wearing Armored Clothing (which provides 1 melee and ranged defense) at medium range. In order two be able to hurl a silhouette 1 object, you need to have at least 1 Strength upgrade, and to be able to hurl it at medium range, you need to have at least 1 Range upgrade purchased.

The silhouette of the hurled object dictates the difficulty of the check. It's a silhouette 1 object, so you have to roll against 1 purple Difficulty die. Also, the enemy you're trying to hit has Adversary 1 and 1 ranged defense, so you upgrade that purple die to a red Challenge die and add a black Setback die on top of that. That brings the dice pool for the Discipline check to GGYYRB. Along with that, you also roll your Force dice.

If you generate at least 3 Force pips (one to trigger the Move power, 1 to increase the maximum range to medium in order to hit the enemy, and 1 to manipulate silhouette 1 objects) and pass the Discipline check, you can hit your target, dealing 10 base damage + 1 damage per uncancelled success on the check.

so if I have a Willpower of 3 with 1 Discipline you are throwing a silhouette of 0 (5 dmg) at a regular redshirt type of enemy at short range.. it would be what? GGY (but what negative dice would be involved)?

None. It would be a check with a difficulty of Simple (-). Yes, that is pretty good, but then again, you're basically using Force-guided missiles here.

Not quite, an unopposed roll against minions would mean just rolling force dice, without your Discipline taken into account.

26 minutes ago, Darzil said:

Not quite, an unopposed roll against minions would mean just rolling force dice, without your Discipline taken into account.

Can you give me a source for that? The power description reads as I've described it above, but perhaps there's something I've missed.

Sorry, was thinking of some other powers. I am wrong here.

15 hours ago, LordEnforcer said:

The Force user can hurl objects to damage targets, by making a ranged
combat check combined with a Move power check, dealing damage
equal to 10 times si lhouette.

what is the skill check you would make for the: Raged attack to hurl objects to injure?

This got mentioned in the F&D errata, where they added a note that Discipline is the skill used. For some reason, this got left out of Force and Destiny while Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion (both of which include the Move power) cite Discipline as the skill used in the upgrade's text.

The difficulty is based upon the silhouette of the object hurled, but even if you're throwing a silhouette 0 object (which has a difficulty of Simple i.e. no purples) you'd still need to make the Discipline roll to successfully attack.

Now where things can get interesting is if the PC wants to hurl bigger objects, as that requires spending Force points to activate Strength upgrades, and it's quite possible for the PC to simply not generate sufficient Force points, especially if they're Force Rating 1 or 2. The general idea in this system is that you'd roll Force dice along with the Discipline dice pool and a number of negative dice that are based upon the silhouette of the object tossed. If you're only hurling silhouette 1 objects and there's been no upgrade to the difficulty, then failing to activate the Strength upgrade just means you'd remove the lone purple die from the final results. But if the PC wanted to hurl something bigger and were hoping to trigger the Strength upgrade multiple times but failed, then it gets a bit trickier. And to an extent, the same with using the Magnitude upgrade to attack with multiple objects, which is an autofire attack and automatically increases the difficulty by one.

1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

This got mentioned in the F&D errata, where they added a note that Discipline is the skill used. For some reason, this got left out of Force and Destiny while Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion (both of which include the Move power) cite Discipline as the skill used in the upgrade's text.

In the Skills chapter, Discipline is listed as being used with Force Powers, it's vague unfortunately but it keeps the same thought from the other books and the RAI.

On 3/29/2018 at 3:31 PM, Decorus said:

Discipline the difficulty equals sil of object + defense/upgrades of target.

Its in the sidebar.

What book and page is the Side bar on?

On 4/9/2018 at 3:55 PM, LordEnforcer said:

What book and page is the Side bar on?

Definitely the Force & Destiny Core Rulebook. AFB at the moment so forgive me if I'm vague on the page. The Force chapter in that book has the full description of the Move Hurl upgrade which you quote in your OP. The Skills chapter lists Discipline as the skill used when using the Force. The side bar in question I believe is in the Force chapter and is more like a big black box towards the top of a page detailing the process of Force Use against any PC or named and important Rivals & Nemeses, which is generally an opposed Discipline vs Discipline check (if the power itself does not already list a specific type of check, which Move does, as it describes Hurl as a ranged combat check).

Page 283, top half of the page, "Resisting Force Power Checks".

TY

On 3/29/2018 at 3:31 PM, Decorus said:

Discipline the difficulty equals sil of object + defense/upgrades of target.

Its in the sidebar.

What book and page is the Side bar on?

5 hours ago, LordEnforcer said:

TY

What book and page is the Side bar on?

22 hours ago, Darzil said:

Page 283, top half of the page, "Resisting Force Power Checks".

Force & Destiny Core Rulebook, as previously stated.

Ok so I have another question... 2 answers I guess

- Say I want to use move to slam someone into a wall.. What all powers would I use and what kind of negatives would i use:

- for engaged, short, and medium range
- for minions and advaseries

Thank you in advance

31 minutes ago, LordEnforcer said:

Ok so I have another question... 2 answers I guess

- Say I want to use move to slam someone into a wall.. What all powers would I use and what kind of negatives would i use:

- for engaged, short, and medium range
- for minions and advaseries

Thank you in advance

mechanically, you have 2 options: Move and Bind. I am assuming you want to deal damage in this scenario and not just move the target.

Move's Hurl upgrade deals damage based on the silhouette (multiplied by 10, plus uncancelled successes) of the target you throw to both that thrown target and the target you throw it at. For anything of silhouette 0, you deal 5 damage (plus uncancelled succeses).

Bind allows you to deal damage to a target for each Dark Side Force point you spend to fuel the power, ignoring soak.

Both powers have a default range of Short.

Against a Minion, Move will be a 1 difficulty check, per the full description of the Move power that says the difficulty of the attack is based on the silhouette of the object thrown. You will need to succeed and generate 1 Force point to activate Move and 1 more Force point to activate the Strength upgrade, so you can affect a Silhouette 1 target. Assuming you gain the minimum amount of successes, that is 11 damage to the thrown target and the target being thrown at (before subtracting soak).

Against a Minion, Bind will be just a Force power check and you deal as much damage as the Dark Side points you spend. You only need a single Force point to activate the power. Note that you cannot frivolously spend Dark Side points you roll, you actually need to spend the points to activate different upgrades for the power. The target takes a minimum of 1 damage if you spend at least a single Dark Side point on the power.

For both Move and Bind, you need to spend an additional Force point to increase the range to Medium, making it 3 points for Move and 2 points for Bind.

Against Rivals it is pretty much the same unless they are story important rivals. For that, see below.

For Story important Rivals and for all Nemesis characters (as well as Player Characters), Move's Hurl upgrade largely stays the same except that you modify the difficulty based on the talents and armor of the target. So if you are throwing a badguy with ranged defense 2 and 1 rank in Adversary, your 1 purple Difficulty Move power check is now a 1 red Challenge die & 2 black Setback dice.

For Bind it is different and that is because Move is specifically called out as a Ranged Combat Check. For Bind, it has no difficulty normally, so you have to refer to the section in the book that talks about making Opposed checks against Nemeses and Player Characters when using Force Powers. Because there is no combat or opposed check already, the Bind power check now combines an opposed Discipline vs Discipline check. You have to succeed and generate the Force points needed to activate your power.

For either case, if you decide ahead of time that you are attempting it from a further range away and you roll less points on the dice than is required, then it is a failure, because you cannot activate the effects on the target.

Personally, my opinion is that Move does way more damage if you want to take out a bunch of Minions but Bind is better in bigger fights because you immobilize the target.

Also, to add to what @GroggyGolem said, to actually move your target back using Bind, you need to have the movement control upgrade. On top of immobilizing the target, this upgrade moves the target one range band either towards or away from the user.

1 hour ago, LordEnforcer said:

Ok so I have another question... 2 answers I guess

- Say I want to use move to slam someone into a wall.. What all powers would I use and what kind of negatives would i use:

- for engaged, short, and medium range
- for minions and advaseries

Thank you in advance

Generally, you'd be using the Move power for both.

Bind kind of works for the first, but mechanically you're not "slamming" someone into a wall (i.e hurling them with enough force that the target takes damage), just simply moving them next to wall; bear in mind that unless you use black pips to generate your Force points, Bind by default doesn't inflict any damage.

For a single individual, be they a lone Minion, a Rival, or a Nemesis, with Move you'd be rolling against a difficulty equal to their silhouette; given that most adversaries are silhouette 1, so by default you'd be rolling Discipline against an Easy (1 purple) difficulty regardless of the distance you're hurling them, as you're effectively attacking the wall with the person, dealing 10 damage to both the person and the wall since both the target and the hurled object take the damage inflicted. Bear in mind that you'll need to generate 1 additional Force point to activate the Strength upgrade, and while range doesn't modify the difficulty for the Discipline check, you'll need 1 extra Force point to activate a Range upgrade if you want to affect or toss someone that's at medium range.

Now, where this can get tricky is if the target is either a Nemesis or an important enough Rival that the GM feels they can have a chance to resist since you're directly affecting them, in which case your Discipline check's difficulty will be opposed by whatever skill the GM feels is appropriate; the general default is Discipline to oppose Force powers, but the sidebar does mention that other skills can be employed if a good rationale is provided. But apart from the difficulty being opposed, it's the same as the previous paragraph.

For a minion group, that's trickier, and there's no official answer that I'm aware of. Per a strict interpretation of RAW, you'd only be able to affect a single minion out of a group, since you're not making an attack against the minion group, and would need Magnitude upgrades to affect multiple minions at once.

A looser interpretation is that the minion group would still be considered a single target, even though you're not making an attack against the group itself, in which case you'd resolve the effect the same as you would for a lone adversary as described above, but that you'd only be doing damage based on the silhouette of the minion type; so hurling a minion group of three archaic battle droids (silhouette 1 by default) would only deal a base 10 damage, which probably won't take out more than two droids barring a really amazing roll.

Some GMs feel that's a bit too lenient, and so rule that a minion group is considered to be one silhouette category larger than the minion type; for instance, a minion group of archaic battle droids (silhouette 1 by default) would be considered silhouette 2 under this house rule for purposes of flinging them about via the Move power. Trade off is that while you'll either need to have purchased two Strength upgrades or have a Force Rating of 2 or more to be able to activate a lone Strength upgrade twice, you'd be dealing more damage since the effective silhouette is bigger; in the battle droid example under this take, you'd be dealing a base 20 damage to the group, which is probably enough to take out three or four of them depending on how well you roll.

With Bind, by default there's no difficulty you just need to generate sufficient Force points to activate the desired effects, though as mentioned previously an important Rival or a Nemesis could get to oppose the power at the GM's discretion. But again, you're not "slamming" anybody into anything, as the movement part of the Control Upgrade that lets you move the target one range band further or closer (your choice) doesn't by itself deal damage. My thought is that Kylo Ren was using Bind like crazy in TFA, and any damage caused was simply due to him using dark side pips to generate his Force points, thus dealing damage (albeit not a lot) to his targets as well as activating the "target takes strain if they take an Action while affected by this power" Control Upgrade.

thanks guys for all the in depth clarification

You’re welcome.?

Also to clarify Bind, if any Dark Side Pips are used you do damage equal to all the Pips spent. So if you spend 1 Dark Side and 3 light side you do 4 Damage. To compete with Move for Damage against a Silhouette 1 target you need to be rolling 7-8 Pips and spending all of them, for a Silhouette 2+ target you can’t compete. Of course that ignores the benefits of dealing Strain when they move and the Immobilised/Staggered/Disoriented effects.

10 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Also to clarify Bind, if any Dark Side Pips are used you do damage equal to all the Pips spent. So if you spend 1 Dark Side and 3 light side you do 4 Damage. To compete with Move for Damage against a Silhouette 1 target you need to be rolling 7-8 Pips and spending all of them, for a Silhouette 2+ target you can’t compete. Of course that ignores the benefits of dealing Strain when they move and the Immobilised/Staggered/Disoriented effects.

It's not unlike the contrast between move object and Force grip in WotC's Saga Edition game. The first was unbeatable for sheer damage output (especially since the damage wasn't limited to the target's size) while the second was more of a battlefield control effect.

Bind is less about dealing damage and more about restricting what the target does, be it locking a melee fighter down so they can't engage, moving foes closer/further or making them take damage if they take an Action with the appropriate control upgrades.

Ok I have one more "hypothetical"

I have 4 willpower and 1 rank in discipline and FR of 2..

I am in short range and want to use MOVE ONLY (not bind) hurl him against the ceiling lets say..

can someone break this down for me.. in 2 ways.. 1-facing minions and 2 facing a story important rival/nemesis

Please

and thank you so very much!