Do we have a date yet? I'm probably not the only one chomping at the bit to mod the minis but still want to play the odd tournament legally.

Things like vehicle firing arcs need to be visible?, modded Infantry stands and customization are kinda important to the hobbyists. Just putting it out there as I see A LOT of back and forth on the threads.

Cheers and play nice with others

I was going to come in swinging with "come on man, the game has only been out a week! Let it settle and just play some games before demanding tournaments" then I read your actual post and totally agree! It is going to take me weeks, if not months to get everything painted and do the conversions I want to do. Getting a head's up from FFG about what is allowed and what isn't is a good idea to get now.

Hopefully ffg are relaxed about all this. Theres other ways to see fire arcs and let you cover them on scenic bases. And small conversions and posing models is half the fun.

Re-reading the cover rules, I think I could see them taking the relaxed "up to the modeler" standpoint here. Because upon re-reading cover, I noted that obscured looks at a birds-eye footprint, not a "% of model obscured by true line of sight". So you're tracing lines between bases to see what gets obscured by terrain and vehicles. While the rules claim you measure line of sight from the squad leader's tallest point, the only application I can see for this is whether barricade-style custom terrain can be shot over.

I'd like to see an OPR document...

For the reasons mentioned above, and to answer my question of "Is this game WYSIWYG?"

5 hours ago, KryatDragon said:

I'd like to see an OPR document...

For the reasons mentioned above, and to answer my question of "Is this game WYSIWYG?"

If it is WYSIWYG, you better paint Luke's saber blue because the weapon is Anakin's Lightsaber. Not Luke's Lightsaber which is green.

So no, it's not going to be WYSIWYG.

The weapon options support a wysiwyg intent but that doesn't mean it'll be a thing.

It'll get pretty bloody confusing when you're running identical weapons on three differently equipped AT-RTsand vice versa...

what's wysiwyg?

What you see is what you get?

how does that apply in game terms?

39 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

what's wysiwyg?

What you see is what you get?

how does that apply in game terms?

If you don't paint the pupil from the rebels, they are blind and get each -1 dice when attacking .

50 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

what's wysiwyg?

What you see is what you get?

how does that apply in game terms?

Basically people are glueing all the weapon options on atst and some people are saying you can’t do that if you aren’t paying for all the options. And another camp is saying yeah you can because the cards are what matters not the model. And then people are trolling saying if that’s the case then you can’t give Luke a pink light saber.

57 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

what's wysiwyg?

What you see is what you get?

how does that apply in game terms?

I believe the term comes from 40K requiring unit upgrades to be represented on the model. I.e. if you upgrade a squard to plasma guns you have to model them with the plasma guns.

For SW: Legion if it's wysiwyg then if your ATST is showing the mortar upgrade on the model you have to pay for mortar. You can't say it doesn't have it. However due to the upgrade card system FFG uses it's not clear if the card is the key to having the upgrade or if it's the card and having the mortar attached to your model

FFG allows all kinds of modifications for IA and Xwing, since the cards are what matters. Hopefully they continue this so that Legion doesn't become the 40K model.

Restricting paint schemes and the models themselves is what some of us were worried about when Legion was announced.

20 minutes ago, fiddybucks said:

Basically people are glueing all the weapon options on atst and some people are saying you can’t do that if you aren’t paying for all the options. And another camp is saying yeah you can because the cards are what matters not the model. And then people are trolling saying if that’s the case then you can’t give Luke a pink light saber.

Pink lightsaber isn't canon for Luke, and it's certainly not Anakin's Lightsaber. Gunna have to deny any attacks from Luke in melee.

The problem with citing IA and X-wing policy both is the model is irrelevant, pure decoration. For IA all you need is a marker to take up the square or squares. For X-Wing all you need is the base. Not so with Legion.

Mod your Luke so that his lightsaber is off, or not raised up high? He is now harder to hit because you can't draw line-of-sight to the raised lightsaber anymore. Swap your HLT-19 arms onto your DLT-19 trooper? Now your HLT is crouching and is therefore harder to hit in some situations.

I hope modding is allowed, I really do... but it is a fact that (slight) competitive advantages can be gained with certain mods in Legion, and this is not true of IA and X-wing.

11 minutes ago, ImperialOfficer said:

FFG allows all kinds of modifications for IA and Xwing, since the cards are what matters.

The rule for X-Wing/Armada, is that the ship must continue to be identifiable as what it is. That's what the WYSIWYG camp want with Legion - if I look at your AT-ST and see (or don't see) a mortar, I should be able to rely on that information, rather than being surprised when you remind me it's the opposite.

Paint schemes were never part of the argument, and neither were infantry conversions so long as the unit/weapon remain identifiable - eg: I should be able to tell if your squad is Rebel Troopers, and whether it has a Z-6, Ion, or no heavy upgrade, by looking at it. If you've changed all the poses and painted your Stormtroopers pink, that's cool, so long as I can still tell what they're meant to be at a glance.

15 minutes ago, ImperialOfficer said:

Hopefully they continue this so that Legion doesn't become the 40K model.

40k is different, because often one kit will come with 2-3 (or more) different options for the unit, of which only one can be assembled. If you want Tau Firewarriors and Tau Breachers, you've got to buy twice as many boxes, because each box can only be one or the other (unless you put in the effort to magnetize them all).

Legion doesn't have that issue, because infantry are all one model per option, so you don't have to make choices and tradeoffs in assembly. You don't get one model that can be either a DLT or an HH-12, you get one of each. The only case you do have to choose so far is the (much, much more easily magnetized) AT-ST and AT-RT guns.

wysiwyg is pointless in this game since it has a card system for equipment anyway.

wysiwyg was mostly employed by 40k because there was no way to tell at a glance what was what unless it had a different model for it. Sounds good on paper but in practice it more meant major headaches than anything else, since often getting a full unit of one weapon type meant buying several boxes of said unit and having extras you never use. Or in the case of my Tau, the firewarriors came with ALL THE OPTIONS so it was a 50USD freakin box for 10 basic trooper models, since it had the parts for 2 different units in it. Incidentally, i normally ran 40-60 of those things.....and was around 1/4 my list in the end....my wallet hurts

Also Legion doesnt have the weapon loadout thing so far anyway except on vehicles, which are easily magnetized. You arent swapping a mini for a heavy weapon in troopers, it flatout adds one (so the cost is both +1 unit health and a special toy)

1 hour ago, shivore said:

Swap your HLT-19 arms onto your DLT-19 trooper? Now your HLT is crouching and is therefore harder to hit in some situations.

This isn't true though. If you attack a unit of troopers, any terrain in play should already have rules, such if it obscures or not, and if so, what type of over it provides.

The only case where I can't deal damage to a character is if I don't have LOS. So if the guy is behind a wall, I obviously can't kill him.

Plus, the defender gets to choose how damage is distributed. So the attacker NEVER gets to choose which mini dies, and the entire unit suffers all the damage, unless you don't have LOS.

I've yet to see a case where you don't have LOS to the HH-12 but have LOS to the rest of the unit. And even if that were the case, the HH-12 can still die if the commander of the unit were to die. They just swap places.

I went ahead and glued the mortar onto my AT-ST, despite the fact that I don't think I'll be using it all that often. I'm thinking that FFG will tell us that conversions are allowed, but that the models must still be recognizable. I'm thinking that having the cards will be absolutely mandatory, but that having the correct weapon glued in place will be less mandatory.

Legion isn't 40k. In 40k, WYSIWYG is very important because my opponent might be running a half dozen units that look kinda of the same, but are equipped differently. Without the WYSIWIG cue, it can be very hard to remember which unit has which upgrades. Constantly having to reconcile the army list to the units on the table can slow the game down. With Legion, I'm probably only going to have one AT-ST. Today, it doesn't have a mortar. My opponent can easily see the AT-ST unit card and also see what upgrade cards are sitting there. I think Legion will be halfway between 40k and Armada... which isn't WYSIWIG at all. Taking a DLT-19 Stormtrooper upgrade? I'd expect you to take the DLT-19 Stormtrooper mini. Taking an AT-RT? I'd expect to see the AT-RT mini and then see the upgrade cards next to the unit card. I'm indifferent about which specific weapon is glued in place.

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

This isn't true though. If you attack a unit of troopers, any terrain in play should already have rules, such if it obscures or not, and if so, what type of over it provides.

The only case where I can't deal damage to a character is if I don't have LOS. So if the guy is behind a wall, I obviously can't kill him.

Plus, the defender gets to choose how damage is distributed. So the attacker NEVER gets to choose which mini dies, and the entire unit suffers all the damage, unless you don't have LOS.

I've yet to see a case where you don't have LOS to the HH-12 but have LOS to the rest of the unit. And even if that were the case, the HH-12 can still die if the commander of the unit were to die. They just swap places.

Force Choke actually would allow the attacker to dictate which Stormtrooper dies. There will probably be additional situations in the future where the attacker gets to pick.

As the above people state their views...this is exactly why we need clarification on OP as everyone goes gangbusters assembling minis with excitement about game release. I would hate for people to mod the minis only to find out they are illegal in OP.

54 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

Force Choke actually would allow the attacker to dictate which Stormtrooper dies. There will probably be additional situations in the future where the attacker gets to pick.

Force Choke is not an attack. It's a free action. I would guess the sniper in the spec ops pack will allow you to designate a target, but currently the defender chooses who dies.

54 minutes ago, Nihm said:

As the above people state their views...this is exactly why we need clarification on OP as everyone goes gangbusters assembling minis with excitement about game release. I would hate for people to mod the minis only to find out they are illegal in OP.

Excellent point, I can't wait to hear back on this. I've got a Vader I'll need to do some chopping on if they come down with no mods to bases.

WYSIWYG seems a bit out of character for FFG; I’d be surprised if that’s the rule. I’d guess mods would be allowed within reason. If they were that worried about people abusing LOS, they wouldn’t have made the AT-ST poseable.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Force Choke is not an attack. It's a free action. I would guess the sniper in the spec ops pack will allow you to designate a target, but currently the defender chooses who dies.

I was using general terminology. Force Choke is obviously not an attack action, but does allow a player to target a specific model within a unit and deal it damage.

This can be solved by making models occupy a set volume based on their base size and that volume is what you draw LoS to, not the actual model.

IE: Make infantry models on 28mm bases occupy a cylinder that is 28mm in diameter and 3" in height. A Speeder Bike could occupy a space up to4" in height. And so on and so forth. And then saying that a model has cover if it is at least 50%(or some other chosen %) obscured.