Few questions bout The Sea of Blood expansion

By Winaran, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

I know that I should have searched for answers somewhere, but this forum is so freakin enormous that I simply can't even start :(

Also please forgive me eventual mistakes, english isn't my native language.

So, returning to the topic:

1)Does Overlord draw cards from his deck when heroes are on an Island level?

2)Does Island named monsters grant heroes conquest tokens? For Example: 2 master sorcerrers Damos and Murt (Cerridos Sea, if I'm wrong, well, the first Island location from first heroes port) as I can say have captured manticore, there was written that freeing manticore is worth 1 conquest token (also there were glyph which means 3 conquests), the questions is how the heroes are awarded for killing sorcerrers? 2 conquests total? 4?

3)How a figure can get back into ship from water? Simply by spending 1 movement point?

4)How many quest items can party carry? 1? Limitless?

5)Is spending fatigue to enchance attack changed somehow? Previously (I have expirience only with first 2 expansions) you could spend fatigue after seeing a result, is it changed? How does it work when you want to roll beter dice type (silver/gold)?

6)Is there a limit on amount threats Overlord can spend to add power dices/movement points?

7)Is buying treachery only way to get even single point of it to spend on cards or some maps/encounters/other things can give me some?

Winaran said:

I know that I should have searched for answers somewhere, but this forum is so freakin enormous that I simply can't even start :(

Also please forgive me eventual mistakes, english isn't my native language.

So, returning to the topic:

1)Does Overlord draw cards from his deck when heroes are on an Island level?

2)Does Island named monsters grant heroes conquest tokens? For Example: 2 master sorcerrers Damos and Murt (Cerridos Sea, if I'm wrong, well, the first Island location from first heroes port) as I can say have captured manticore, there was written that freeing manticore is worth 1 conquest token (also there were glyph which means 3 conquests), the questions is how the heroes are awarded for killing sorcerrers? 2 conquests total? 4?

3)How a figure can get back into ship from water? Simply by spending 1 movement point?

4)How many quest items can party carry? 1? Limitless?

5)Is spending fatigue to enchance attack changed somehow? Previously (I have expirience only with first 2 expansions) you could spend fatigue after seeing a result, is it changed? How does it work when you want to roll beter dice type (silver/gold)?

6)Is there a limit on amount threats Overlord can spend to add power dices/movement points?

7)Is buying treachery only way to get even single point of it to spend on cards or some maps/encounters/other things can give me some?

1) Yes, it is treated exactly the same as a normal dungeon level for most of the rules.

2) Yes, they act exactly the same as dungeon leaders so on Cerridor Sea the heroes get 2CT for killing each leader.

3) Yes, but it costs 2 points to climb over a rail space

4) I believe it is one

5) No it is the same. The deal with silver and gold dice is that you have to upgrade a black dice to a silver or gold BEFORE rolling it. So if you rolled a normal attack with three black dice, you can't then decide to upgrade one of the rolled black dice to silver.

6) No

7) You have to buy it as an upgrade.

Not a problem :)

1) and 2) Island levels are just like dungeon levels (SoB rules page 21), the only thing that is different is that their first level is played on the respective island map (but is still subject to all the dungeon rules, the rulebook doesn't spell this out explicitly). So yes, the OL does draw cards, and yes, named monsters on islands grant conquest just like regular dungeon level leaders.

3) Yes, unless it has to cross a railing (in which case it would need to spend 1 additional movement point, SoB page 27). If you think that this is counter-intuitive, I agree lengua.gif

4) SoB page 34 specifies that "each lieutenant can only carry one Quest Item at a time", and that "the party, collectively, can pick up and carry a Quest Item in exactly the same way, with one additional restriction [...]" ... so they can only carry 1 Quest Item.

5) The heroes can still do that, if they only want to add power dice. If they want to upgrade power dice however, they'll have to spend the fatigue before the roll. SoB page 33 talks about this. Example of a legal play (even though it might not make perfect sense):

A hero rolls three black power dice as usual, but decides that he needs additional oomph. He spends one fatigue and rolls one additional power die. He sees that he still won't cut it, and gets desparate. He spends three fatigue to buy an additional power die and upgrade it to gold, then rolls it. After this, he rolled five power dice and can't roll any more either way.

6) Nope, except that he can't spend more threat than he has, and he can't let a monster roll more than five power dice (total of any color, black silver and gold). And he can only do this in encounters, not dungeon levels - although some people house rule it to work in dungeon levels as well, giving the OL more options.

7) Yes, it's the only way. Corrupted runes by the way are very powerful in the advanced campaign, particularly the green (sundered) ones, because there's usually only two runes per dungeon level. demonio.gif

Edit: Big Remy beat me to it, posting anyway since I typed this already. At least we're saying the same things cool.gif

1)I forgot about one thing, does threats reset like deck when party goes down in the dungeon?

2)So for the sorcerrers they would gain 4 conquest total.

6)Well I used threats (like fatigue) during Island and dungeon levels but I will try not to do this again :)

8)Nanok of the Blade is made weaker in SoB, but maybe there is something I missed that actually works for his benefit (I don't suppose). Now he has armor equal to him melee trait (number of power dice) which is 2 armor lower than before, does power dice levels affect his armor or not? Does campaing level affect his armor or not? His maximum armor (not counting skills/items, only counting power dices) is now 5?

Thanks for answers so far :)

1) Neither threat nor the deck resets between dungeon levels . Only between dungeons. The same is true for the islands, when the heroes enter the cave on the island neither threat nor deck reset.

2) Yep.

8) Nanok was just pretty powerful in RtL, they decided to tone him down a bit to make him more in line with the other heroes. That's why he didn't get any buffs instead, because the change was meant to make him weaker lengua.gif - yep, he can get up to armor 5 with his melee trait.

haslo said:

Edit: Big Remy beat me to it, posting anyway since I typed this already. At least we're saying the same things cool.gif

Yeah, but yours were more detailed responses so I'm glad you left them.

1) sorpresa.gif I'm sure that I saw somewhere that between dungeon levels Overlord have to reset his hand and discard pile (but not power cards) into deck (it would make sense because if you run out of cards twice the party have fleed the dungeon).

Winaran said:

1) sorpresa.gif I'm sure that I saw somewhere that between dungeon levels Overlord have to reset his hand and discard pile (but not power cards) into deck (it would make sense because if you run out of cards twice the party have fleed the dungeon).

SoB pg19
The overlord’s hand of cards, threat, and Power cards in play are maintained for all three levels of the dungeon, but are lost when the dungeon ends
.

In RtL there was an error in the main rules that is probably what you are thinking of. The rules explained the dungeon setup system in the level setup section, which made it appear that you did reset hand and discard etc between levels (though you still were not supposed to really). It was clarified in the FAQ, and, as you can see, fixed in SoB.

So how does it work with the rule stating that if Overlord runs out of cards twice in a dungeon level the level is lost for heroes? Or is it meant to be something like if Overlord run out of cards twice for whole dungeon (3 levels) the heroes are defeated?

And one more thing, glyph activation still gives the party 3 conquests unless stated otherwise or was it changed (I'm asking just to make sure happy.gif )?

Glyphs still give heroes CPs, and is in fact the primary way heroes gain CPs (others being defeating dungeon level leaders, finding no treasures in treasure chests, exploring dungeons for the first time, and winning encounters with Lts).

As for the Overlord Deck rule, it was thrown in after some players reported that early in Gold, the players felt they were ready for the Overlord's keep, but didn't want to let the OL gain any additional CPs so they went to a dungeon and sat in town, letting the OL earn 3CPs until they were over 600CPs total, fled the dungeon and immediately started the Final Battle. To counter such a cheesy act, Kevin originally ruled that if the OL cycles his deck 3 times in a dungeon, then the heroes are ousted. This had problems with long dungeons, like the Legendary ones, so the rule was changed to 2 times in a single Level.

IMO, the rule is there to counter a lame tactic on the heroes side. If your heroes aren't playing like this and are honestly progressing through a dungeon, if it happens that the deck is cycled more than twice, eh, let them continue.

-shnar

What made me confused was that when Overlord runs out of cards second time during a dungeon level the party have failed to expole the dungeon with the rule that deck do not refresh after every level, but because it does, levels are small and I see this is just anti hack gran_risa.gif rule then this should not be a problem.

1)In errata I found that dices gained from spending fatigue are not affected by weakness card, but does this card affect power potions? In other words, will it negate the effect of power potion?

2)Which monsters are able to act as heroes (battle, run, ready)? All named monsters?

3)How long does dark relics stay on character during campaing? One week? Till death?

4)Again something that came to my mind when reading errata, Overlord have hand size limit of 8 cards, can he draw more cards and then discard down to 8?

5)In 19 page of errata I found that 'Upgrades are paid for by the party.' but I'm not sure if I know what does it mean, does ship upgrades have to be paid by every party member? Does everyone has to spend whole cost or it is divided?

6)Lieutenants cannot enter land locations so I assume inland cities (without any water trail) cannot be razed), but what if Overlord wants to get quest item that is in inland location (for example party left it there because they know Overlord cannot take it from there)?

7)In campaigns rolling stone and poltergeist are removed from the Overlords deck, I also found that crushing blow is somehow restricted but I cannot find how, can anyone tell?

Can't answer all of those questions, but some of them at least.

2) Monsters, named or otherwise, never acts as heroes do unless that specific monster has a special rule that states that it does. Normal dungeons leader for example almost never have this rule so they act like normal monsters. There are in fact only a few monsters in the entire campaign with this rule (at least one rumour boss has it, and the Avatar).

4) Yes he can, in fact as he must discard down to his maximum hand size as soon as he has drawn the cards. I think the FAQ ruling you are referring to is the treachery one. In the Road to Legend campaign (but on in SoB) the OL starts Lt-encounters with all his Treachery cards on hand. What they are specifying is that the OL in this case cannot choose more Treachery cards than his maximum handsize.

5) Ship upgrades have an XP cost noted at the bottom. This rule means that the full XP cost list is payed by each member of the party, as opposed to only the hero visiting the shipyard paying the cost,

6) The OL cannot get at Dalak no, so if the heroes gets a Key there the OL might be in a spot of trouble. However, there is a plot card that lets the OL remove a Key from one city, and the wise OL will save this card in case the heroes tries this. If this card has already been used then there is nothing the OL can do and he has failed his plot. Note that the OL can always win by raising cities or winning the last fight, so all is not lost.

7) There where originaly two Crushing Blow, one of them has been removed in the FAQ. So the OL can never get more than one Crushing Blow with Treachery,

6)Can party store 2 quest items in 1 city? what I mean is there is only one card to move sun keys to island locations and 3 keys to obtain so if party can store 2 or 3 keys in it then Overlord won't be able to fulfill his plot at all.

In RtL, only one item can be stored in a given city's vault (pg 25, last paragraph).

In SoB, the paragraph is practically verbatim, with the Terrinoth "map" name changed to Torue Albes, and no mention of Tamalir's Obelisk of Journey, page 34, bottom right corner. So, only one quest item can be stored in a given city's vault.

-shnar

6)But if quest items in SoB are 'safe' in inland locations can party leave them simply on land?

Huh, um, good point. There's no restriction to just leaving a quest item out in the open, and since Lts can't go on land, technically you can just it off and it would be forever safe. I would house-rule though that you cannot an item except at a location where the OL has a chance of getting it. Kind of like that weird rule that the OL cannot block/make-level-impossible...

Another question for the FAQ I guess.

-shnar

Wait, my response is not technically correct. I reread the section about Quest Items on page 34 in SoB. It looks like technically no one can "drop" a quest item, unless they are picking up another one or putting it in a city's vault. There is that one land-locked city that no Lt could siege to get the quest item, so the only house-rule you have to implement is that that city has no vault.

-shnar

Or maybe they designed it to give the heroes a "safe" safe?

Given that there's a card that works against the landlocked tactic, this doesn't break the game, but it still feels a little unbalanced. Going to have to play it to find out though.

Doesn't feel very unbalanced imo. If the OL lets the heroes steal a key and get it all the way to Dallak, twice , then the heroes deserve that victory. As the OL can still win in other ways it seems pretty fair that the heroes can at least put an end to this particular threat with some luck and skill.

Well, as long as city can store only 1 quest item (there is such limit right?) I don't think it would be a problem as long as players will be taking another quest item with them in case I use this card to move it from there so they will quickly store another quest item in place of previous one (only one solution against that I can think of is to defet party with lieutenant which I suppose could be hard).

1)During encounter turn how many monsters can Overlord reinforce? Is there a limit? Like one monster per turn or is it limited by threats?

2)If Overlord used treachery for dark glyph, does he regain the used glyph when party enters lower dungeon level?

3)Manning a rope allows heroes to move diagonally?

Winaran said:

1)During encounter turn how many monsters can Overlord reinforce? Is there a limit? Like one monster per turn or is it limited by threats?

2)If Overlord used treachery for dark glyph, does he regain the used glyph when party enters lower dungeon level?

3)Manning a rope allows heroes to move diagonally?

1) Limited by available threat AND number of figure.

2) No, its once for the entire dungeon.

3) Nope, they directly out from the ship.

Big Remy said:

3) Nope, they directly out from the ship.

So they can only move straight from the ship and cannot move diagonally, can they only move to the 'left' or 'right' side of the ship or can they move 'forward'/'backward' of the ship?

4)How does daze work with someone who have silver/gold dice? He cannot chose to lost silver/gold dice or for each daze he is allowed to 'weaken' one of his dice? Foe example hero with red,green,yellow,2black,2silver with 4 dazes can roll red,green and 3black dice?