what are some good ideas for approach against the ATST with his 4 range. I know sticking to the trees and such but any others. Rebels seem to be able to move faster. Thoughts

All of the AT-STs weapons are Fixed-Front, so if you can flank it you should be set.

How you go about flanking it is going to depend on a few factors. What units you have, what terrain you are playing on, and what objectives/deployments you have for your game. Even the conditions can change things. Limited visibility, try sneaking up to it. Rapid reinforcements, maybe hold back a couple of MPL-57 squads to drop in on its flanks later.

good to know, i know the ATST can pivot which takes one of it's actions, so. We have just played a basic game out of the box and now we have everything so just curious how others approached the big machine. lol

I’ve only played against it a couple times, but I seem to end up throwing the snowspeeder and an AT-RT at it, and then just trying to get it to waste actions by pivoting.

Pro tip, if you don’t have the laser cannon, send an AT-RT into melee with the big boy walker. It’s got Impact and red dice, so it can actually plink through some damage.

1 minute ago, Ailowynn said:

I’ve only played against it a couple times, but I seem to end up throwing the snowspeeder and an AT-RT at it, and then just trying to get it to waste actions by pivoting.

Pro tip, if you don’t have the laser cannon, send an AT-RT into melee with the big boy walker. It’s got Impact and red dice, so it can actually plink through some damage.

All of the Tabletop Simulator gurus on these forums claim that taking the Rotary Blaster on the AT-RT is more effective than the Laser Cannon since you get more dice and the AT-RT converts surges to Crits. I don't have any personal experience to back it up but it seems like a valid point.

Disclaimer: I haven't had a chance to play a real game yet.

Against enemies with armor, the rotary blaster averages 1.25 damage before defense rolls, while the laser cannon averages 2.125 damage before defense rolls.

But against enemies without armor, the rotary blaster averages 3.125, while the laser cannon remains at 2.125.

So if it is strictly a matter of anti-armor capabilities, the laser cannon has the advantage. But if you don't know what you'll be facing, the rotary blaster is more flexible. Additionally, the AT-ST takes a lot to bring down, even with laser cannons -- when you account for the AT-ST's defense, it would take an average of about 7.75 AT-RT laser cannon attacks to eliminate it.

3 minutes ago, Leveton said:

Disclaimer: I haven't had a chance to play a real game yet.

Against enemies with armor, the rotary blaster averages 1.25 damage before defense rolls, while the laser cannon averages 2.125 damage before defense rolls.

But against enemies without armor, the rotary blaster averages 3.125, while the laser cannon remains at 2.125.

So if it is strictly a matter of anti-armor capabilities, the laser cannon has the advantage. But if you don't know what you'll be facing, the rotary blaster is more flexible. Additionally, the AT-ST takes a lot to bring down, even with laser cannons -- when you account for the AT-ST's defense, it would take an average of about 7.75 AT-RT laser cannon attacks to eliminate it.

Are you factoring in the Surge->Crit ability on these numbers?

18 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

Are you factoring in the Surge->Crit ability on these numbers?

Yes he is. A die has a 25% chance of rolling a surge or a crit. 5×.25=1.25 average damage. That being said, when considering such things it pays to look at a few other numbers. The first one that comes to mind is the chance of not getting any crits (23.7%, or .75^5). There's more you'd want to look at, but that's the end of my break.

2 hours ago, Squark said:

Yes he is. A die has a 25% chance of rolling a surge or a crit. 5×.25=1.25 average damage. That being said, when considering such things it pays to look at a few other numbers. The first one that comes to mind is the chance of not getting any crits (23.7%, or .75^5). There's more you'd want to look at, but that's the end of my break.

The Laser Cannon has an Impact rating equal to its dice pool. It only cares about natural crits because Cover can't cancel them. And Cover maxxes out at 2. Otherwise, it can upgrade any and all hits left after cover to crits against armor. Coupled with its high odds of rolling hits on its dice, it's not going to completely whiff often.

You're right. It isn't going to whiff often. But it still isn't outstanding against armor. For 55 points, a group of Rebel Troopers with an extra trooper and Impact Grenades will average slightly more damage against targets with armor (although their range with the grenades is obviously poor).

I've actually had issues facing AT-ST the last 3 games. However, today I tried a new build and it decimated my opponent.

My advice:

1) 2 AT-RT with Laser Cannons = 180 points. Since the AT-RT has attack surge, your red die has a 7/8 chance and your black dice have a 3/4 chance to hit. On average you do 6 hits and the AT-ST saves 2 which means 4 damage a turn. You only need 8 damage before you permanently damage the AT-ST.

2) Don't run the TR-47.

3) Impact grenades on regular troopers also works. Manuever you troopers through cover and once you get close, throw your grenades.

Lastly, I think the AT-ST will be siting on the shelf until we get more commanders. I think 3 units of speeders is far more effective than 1 unit of speeders and 1 AT-ST.

I used it tonight just to test it out, if your Imperial player is smart, they'll put it in a corner and keep it there until it's safe to move. If they activate it first, they'll just panic your troopers the entire game.

For rebels, impact grenades plus a heavy weapon either of them seems pretty good. That gives about 4 damage all with impact with the z-6 and about the same, maybe slightly more or less with the ion.

for imperials impact grenades plus dlt gives about 5 damage

9 hours ago, Jabby said:

For rebels, impact grenades plus a heavy weapon either of them seems pretty good. That gives about 4 damage all with impact with the z-6 and about the same, maybe slightly more or less with the ion.

for imperials impact grenades plus dlt gives about 5 damage

I need to stop thinking with a 40k mentality. I kept thinking that I could only use one grenade, but the rules very clearly say every mini in the unit can use the weapon. 5 black dice and 6 white dice with impact 5 certainly seems helpful, and makes it even harder to justify the ion gun.

23 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

I need to stop thinking with a 40k mentality. I kept thinking that I could only use one grenade, but the rules very clearly say every mini in the unit can use the weapon. 5 black dice and 6 white dice with impact 5 certainly seems helpful, and makes it even harder to justify the ion gun.

But you have to get into range 1. The ion gun is range 3 and those ion tokens can make a huge difference - if you can get units out of arc, an ioned atst cannot pivot and attack, or if you are in arc at least it can't aim before attacking.

One thing I have found with other minis game is that if your opponent brings a really powerful (expensive unit) sometimes the best thing to do, is not engage it. Part of what you pay for with the AT-ST is its ability to take fire. IF you can avoid shooting at it and still win that can be a great boon. Remember you don't have to kill the AT-ST you just have to win the objective.

Of course a good opponent will make ignoring the AT-ST a painful choice for you. But that is what makes tabletop games fun.

23 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

I need to stop thinking with a 40k mentality. I kept thinking that I could only use one grenade, but the rules very clearly say every mini in the unit can use the weapon. 5 black dice and 6 white dice with impact 5 certainly seems helpful, and makes it even harder to justify the ion gun.

The Ion applies to the entire attack pool. So Ion and Impact 5 means you should be pushing at least 1 damage onto the AT-ST AND giving it an Ion token. Otherwise, you have Impact 1 and 5 black 2 red, and you are only converting 1 hit to a crit which can easily be blocked.

Ion plus Impact Grenades is going to be a staple anti-armor Rebel squad. You just need to get to range 1.

36 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

The Ion applies to the entire attack pool. So Ion and Impact 5 means you should be pushing at least 1 damage onto the AT-ST AND giving it an Ion token. Otherwise, you have Impact 1 and 5 black 2 red, and you are only converting 1 hit to a crit which can easily be blocked.

Ion plus Impact Grenades is going to be a staple anti-armor Rebel squad. You just need to get to range 1.

...I do not concur with this assessment.

Incidentally, I've killed ATSTs every time I've played against them, usually on turn 2, turn 3 if the ATST defense dice are on point. I never use Ion troopers or Impact Grenades. I think people are massively overestimating the durability of units with the Armor keyword.

2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

...I do not concur with this assessment.

Incidentally, I've killed ATSTs every time I've played against them, usually on turn 2, turn 3 if the ATST defense dice are on point. I never use Ion troopers or Impact Grenades. I think people are massively overestimating the durability of units with the Armor keyword.

You roll 11 critts in 2 turns of fire. Okay let's say 7 and then you roll lucky on damage roll. That is still 56 dice rolls before you can expect 7 crits.

33 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

...I do not concur with this assessment.

Incidentally, I've killed ATSTs every time I've played against them, usually on turn 2, turn 3 if the ATST defense dice are on point. I never use Ion troopers or Impact Grenades. I think people are massively overestimating the durability of units with the Armor keyword.

Well, not everyone can have that kind of luck. I mean, the math alone means that, counting for the AT-ST’s average defense, you need to get 15 native crits. That requires (on average) 120 shots. Obviously aim tokens and such can make those odds a little better, but you also need to get within range of the thing.

So....uh....go play the lottery? Or maybe recognize that your experience is a huge statistical outlier?

Either way, good job.

He probably runs 3 AT-RT's with the laser cannon or something similar. I think the comment was more that ion and impact grenades might not be a staple of the game. That doesn't stop his comment from being dismissive and pedantic though.

"Incidentally, I am the greatest ever and let me tell you why you're wrong"

41 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

...I do not concur with this assessment.

Incidentally, I've killed ATSTs every time I've played against them, usually on turn 2, turn 3 if the ATST defense dice are on point. I never use Ion troopers or Impact Grenades. I think people are massively overestimating the durability of units with the Armor keyword.

Do you play with any terrain? Does your opponent deploy the AT-ST backwards and reverse towards you?

I'm calling BS on this.

4 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Do you play with any terrain? Does your opponent deploy the AT-ST backwards and reverse towards you?

I'm calling BS on this.

To be fair it would be super rad to have the AT-ST moonwalk towards the Rebels.

T-47 averages 3-4 crits a shot, ATRTs with Blasters average 2-3. Both of those can easily engage an ATST turn 1. Conversely Ion trooper's more limited mobility and range hamper it a lot. I'd rather the ATST just be dead.

Also, I have generally more deployments and activations than a list with an ATST, so more control over the engagement and both the RT blaster and Speeder are retain value after the major armor threat drops better than the Ion.

@MasterShake2 T-47s and AT-RTs are the heavy hitters of the rebel army. If you dedicate two heavy hitters to killing it then yes, you can put an AT-ST down. A laser cannon AT-RT is 90 points. A T-47 is 175 points. Having an Ion blaster means you don't have the Z-6 rotary blaster in that unit. An AT-ST with a twin light blaster cannon is 220 points. So 265 points of rebels beats 220 points of imperial. I'm not sure this is a revelation.

To answer the original post, yes, the Rebel have heavy hitters that can easily go toe to toe with a AT-ST. The question is do you want to dedicate the points it take to kill an AT-ST when those points may be more effective somewhere else. This is not a rhetorical question, its a tactical question. One you will have to ask yourself every time you build a list and play against an AT-ST. There are lots of answers, but no easy ones.