8 minutes ago, Stefan said:

The Rebellion at the end of ANH had, like, two X-Wings and one Y-Wing left. When they evacuated Hoth in TESB, they had a few X-Wings, yet at the end of the movie, there was a complete fleet. Why did you believe that back then and not now? I'm not saying this stuff makes sense in the sequels; it just never made any sense in Star Wars. But this wasn't a problem for six movies, and suddenly, it is?

Besides, we're shown a pretty garguantan FO military in Episode VII, the movie where it's clearly established that the Republic does not have any army whatsoever, so the takeover isn't exactly unbelievable.

For the end of ANH & hoth there's also all of the ground forces, and all of the survivers of scarif and spliter cells not near enough to help the yavin or hoth imidietly, and episodes are months (not days) apart and it has been shown that they get refitted civilian ships from sympathetic planets accross the Galaxy furthermore the power of the time saw them as a threat and was attempting to deal with them, so saying that the FO did the same as the rebellion just makes everyone look incompetent, the FO has large warships not freghters and starliners furthermore any comptent conqureror would be watching the imperial reminent precisely to make sure they DONT rearm.

The empire took over "peacefully" and there was still an immediate rebellion, and yet in TLJ were supposed to believe that mere days after being conqured that there are no planetary goveners sending aid, no republic fleets doing hit and runs, it takes days just to cross the galexy yet the FO conqured it in that time after a major loss (starkiller) with no Resistance

3 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Despite the Empire being beaten in the OT (or, at least, fatal blows being dealt to it at Endor culminating in it's slow and eventual defeat at Jakku) and the Jedi defeating the Sith, we're supposed to just accept that a mere 20-30 years later, a new "First Order" emerges from the ashes of this defeat with a more powerful Dark Force Lord (from out of nowhere) and an army with bigger, better vehicles and a navy with bigger, better ships capable of taking over the entire Galaxy again within the span of a few days (as per the opening crawl of TLJ). How is this possible?

This is the issue.

How much can they stuff into a movie?

TLJ was already very long. So was TFA. Much like the original trilogy, the lore simply cannot be explained all on screen. Too many fans are approaching these new movies through the glasses of established-o-vision. It's been so long since the originals were released and there have been so many books, comics, games, and other pieces of lore to fill that era that we forget none of this really made sense when the originals first came out.

How was it possible?

According to the novelization for TLJ, Snoke wasn't always this powerful. He was however, insightful. As soon as he took power Palpatine had expended a vast amount of resources to slowly build a massive fall back in the unknown regions. Weapons depots, warehouses, supply worlds, even shipyards. Palpatine had a contingency for the Empire's fall. Snoke explains that while Sidious did prepare, the fallen Empire would still likely not have been ready for the dangers of the unknown regions. They explain that when Snoke realized Sidious' plan, he began seeking out power, this power amassed from one of Sidious' darkest secrets. The origins of the Jedi and Sith were scattered throughout the unknown regions. Snoke became this all powerful being by carefully eliminating or absorbing powerful groups in the unknowns while learning about the force.

According to the Battlefront II campaign (which is canon), after the fall of the Emperor, the Empire began restructuring itself for a new style of offensive military campaigns. Operation Cinder was the Emperor's last given order which was basically a cleansing by fire approach to worlds that needed conquering (even if they were within the empire and loyal). This restructure lead the Empire to it's defeat at Jakku where the remaining pieces of the Empire scattered to the unknown.

According to the TLJ novelization, Snoke was then able to topple the fallen Imperial warlords one by one until he had amassed the empire, and immediately began restructuring it into the First Order.


According to what I've read about the aftermath series. After Jakku, the remaining Imperial worlds signed a disarmament treaty with the New Republic. Both sides began tearing down destroyers and both sides dispersed their armies. The First Order wasn't known as a military regime as much as a political one. Leia, and several leaders from the alliance encouraged the New Republic to stamp them out. Reluctant to drag the galaxy into another war, they dismissed Leia and her followers as warmongers and relics of a system that no longer existed. Thus, the resistance was formed. The resistance was not well funded and for the most part had only minor interactions with the FO's military, it had been such a small amount of interaction the resistance wasn't able to convince many in the NR that there was even a threat.

According to the TLJ novelization Snoke had been planing the downfall of the New Republic for a very long time. However, he knew that if his plans were to succeed Skywalker and the threat of new Jedi would have to be eliminated. Unfortunately, Luke was much wiser than he had planned. Instead of immediately building a temple and seeking to train more Jedi, Luke chose to seek out knowledge about the Jedi and grow his powers. Snoke realized that this would be a problem as there was no way to prevent Luke's rise to power. It was at this time that he hatched a plan to ensnare Luke and his family to bring them to an end. Through the force Snoke was able to influence Ben. As Ben grew older, he had moments of temper Han and Liea were afraid of. (Several times in the book Kylo remembers back to overhearing their concern and expresses how it had made him feel like he was wrong, twisted or confused, a monster.) They asked Luke to take Ben on as an apprentice, hoping that Luke could keep him in the light. Luke accepted and started the temple. Snoke manipulated Luke through force visions, much like it's believed Palpatine did to Anakin. When Luke had his moment of reactionary weakness it was all Ben needed to turn.

With Luke dead and Ben under his command he was free to start his plan. However Luke didn't die. He was broken but Snoke knew if he ever returned he could inspire enough hope to rebuild a resistance. Starkiller was finalized while Kylo hunted down Luke. In the unknown, the massive stores of weapons and supplies had been fed into the Snoke's already massive power base, the empire culled of it's weakness and reborn as the first order with a massive fleet in preparation for the day the New Republic Fell.

In short, Snoke was preparing for the events of TLJ from almost the start of the Empire....

45 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Where did the resources and manpower come from for the First Order to be able to pull this off? If they were militarizing to this degree, why did the Republic not view them as a serious threat (as per the opening crawl in TLJ)?

As stated above, Snoke had been toppling military leaders in the unknown building a power base far before the fall of the empire. He had entire systems under his control long before the gathered the remaining military leaders of the Empire. They also attribute much of the FO's military power to the Hux family who engineered many of the ships and designed the new trooper programs. Hus is a genius, but also completely nutters for power. The unknown regions are massive, nearly half the SW galaxy. Due to the uncharted and dangerous aspects of the unkown the New Republic never explored it. It was easy for the FO to hide their fleet. The New Republic only ever had the very limited interactions of the resistance to go by when determining the FO's power. Even the resistance had NO IDEA how massive the fleet was. It wasn't until after Starkiller was destroyed that the resistance learned about the fleet. (Thanks to the actions of the player in battlefront II).

53 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

It's just plain lazy, and there is no interesting philosophical difference here of "inefficient demonstrations of power" vs "tactical cunning and restraint" because the First Order is just granted, carte blanche, a powerful Dark Force master, a navy that puts the Imperial vessels to shame, and an army of even bigger and less efficient vehicles. If the First Order had to work to get any of those things, then one could have an interesting commentary on Displays of Force vs Tactical Need, but when the audience is told "hey, remember that faction that was defeated and viewed as so inconsequential that the Republic simply ignored them?? Well guess what!!! They're back, with bigger, better, badder stuff than ever before! Oh, and they're stuff is so cool and their armies so big they've taken over the Galaxy again in the course of a week!!!!!"

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. The writing for the new timeline is great, and displays a very deep divide between the old Empire and the First Order. More than this, they are telling this story over several medias. Expanding the enjoyment of this franchise beyond the big screen!

If anyone is being lazy at this point I would say its these cry-baby viewers.

They are telling a story on a massive scale and people are expecting everything from the movies to be explained perfectly. Immediately.

This a growing galaxy. The story is being told and they are filling in the empty spaces much faster than they have ever had to before, but lazy, simple-minded, fanboys are too selfish to even give them a chance.


/rant.

1 hour ago, Darth Sanguis said:

This a growing galaxy. The story is being told and they are filling in the empty spaces much faster than they have ever had to before, but lazy, simple-minded, fanboys are too selfish to even give them a chance.


/rant.

Thanks for saying what needs to be said, I couldn't agree more.

I'm really interested to see the Thrawn and Vader story arc develop on Batuu (A planet receiving a lot of attention from Disney). Being a planet in the Unknown Regions, it's not hard to imagine that this somehow fits into the Snoke storyline.

The latest episode of the Battlefront II campaign also has potential, with Zay being asked by Leia to seek help in the Outer Rim shortly before the battle of D'Qar.

11 hours ago, Stefan said:

- The Battle of Geonosis in the Clone Wars involves around 1,5million Clone Troopers, which is, we're told, practically the whole army. Hitler invaded Russia with 4 million Wehrmacht soldiers alone.

On that note:

In every scifi, and especially in Star Wars and Star Trek, Earth is, or would be a densely overpopulated planet. In Star Wars many planets have their inhabitant count under one hundred million. In fact, planets over a billion inhabitants are very rare, so a token force can control key parts of most of the planets.

In Star Trek it's even more so. Even a million people on the same planet is a rarity, but it makes sense as the Trek civilization is young (ony a few hundred years of space travel) compared to Wars (more than 4k years).

10 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

It all depends on how long a round of Armada represents.

Unrepresentative, though, I don't know, since in the actual TFA clip, Poe kills a literal 10 TIE Fighters (and three Storm Troopers) in a mere literal 16 seconds. If we assume the entire rest of his squad was capable of killing 2 TIE Fighters in that same amount of time, that's an entire TIE Squadron dead in 16 seconds. So, if a Round of Armada is anything greater than 16 seconds, it wouldn't be unreasonable (per TFA Logic, at least) for Poe to kill more than one per Round, especially since his squadron base represents his wingmen as well.

Personally, I think Rounds in Armada represent a lot more than 16 Seconds, but that's an abstraction open to subjective preference. In Armada, a fleet can kill a large ship in 2-3 Rounds. At the Battle of Scarif, it takes pretty much the entire battle for 3 ISDs and a lot of TIEs to defeat the Profundity , and it takes almost the entire battle for the Profundity and around nine corvettes/frigates and four fighter squadrons to incapacitate one ISD. We don't know how long the Battle of Scarif actually was, of course, but we know it started while Jyn and Cassian were looking for files, and in that time Bodhi ran across a beach and back, some other guys got to a switch and flipped it, and Jyn and Cassian talked a bit, scaled a file storage hard drive, almost fell off of a platform, climbed back, listened to Krennic talk for a bit, shot him, sent the file, climbed back down, and waited on the beach for the blast wave from the Death Star (which arrived before the Devastator ). Maaaaaaaybe all of that happens in like 90 seconds... but my head-canon interpretation is that the Battle of Scarif was at least minutes long and that Rounds in Armada are longer than 16 seconds of in-game-universe time.

I dident ever say just one squadren, I said "more than 2" and the rule dident specify that the target squadren had to be the one removed

16 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Seriously, though, the best option in my opinion would be to make Resistance and First Order separate factions.

Agreed. Disney could fix the "too few ships" problem rather easily within the coming years, they seem to have their sights set on that era for upcoming content.

This would also provide options for visual distinction for the new squadrons- for example, FO squads could be black instead of grey.

What this doesn't fix is that /fo and /sf fighters would still look almost indistinguishable...

1 hour ago, DampfGecko said:

Agreed. Disney could fix the "too few ships" problem rather easily within the coming years, they seem to have their sights set on that era for upcoming content.

This would also provide options for visual distinction for the new squadrons- for example, FO squads could be black instead of grey.

What this doesn't fix is that /fo and /sf fighters would still look almost indistinguishable...

they'll just have to add token holders to the stands.. ala the ship stands....

then you can put a type of token to bases of each type... I mean you get enough of them

6 hours ago, Norell said:

On that note:

In every scifi, and especially in Star Wars and Star Trek, Earth is, or would be a densely overpopulated planet. In Star Wars many planets have their inhabitant count under one hundred million. In fact, planets over a billion inhabitants are very rare, so a token force can control key parts of most of the planets.

In Star Trek it's even more so. Even a million people on the same planet is a rarity, but it makes sense as the Trek civilization is young (ony a few hundred years of space travel) compared to Wars (more than 4k years).

We don't have many canon sources for populations. Nor do we have much canon exploration of core worlds in Star Wars. The few core worlds we do see are intensely developed. Population estimates for Coruscant range from a few trillion to quadrillions. It is a literal planet city with built structures that span dozens if not hundreds of kilometres in height/depth. Hosnian, from what I recall, was supposedly a similar planet city and there are undoubtedly others.

I don't know if we can draw many conclusions about the average population of a planet. I think the smaller forces can subjugate the galaxy simply via a combination of force projection and immediate interstellar communication. A single star destroyer could conquer a whole system not by deploying millions of boots on the ground but by being where it needs to be when it needs to be to quash resistance and take control of key infrastructure.

Oh and Star Wars is far older than 4k years as far as I know. I think its roughly 20,000+ years unless it's been changed in new canon. My 2 cents.

Also heres a couple of points for people...

German conquered France in 6 weeks in 1940.... there was fighting there until 1945

Germany invaded the Balkans in 1941... fighting there until 1945

If you invade somewhere fast with the element of suprise enough you can take out the organised control functions before a defence can be organised

2 hours ago, slasher956 said:

they'll just have to add token holders to the stands.. ala the ship stands....

then you can put a type of token to bases of each type... I mean you get enough of them

Yea, squadron bases already come with token-holders. That said, I mean they wouldn't have to , from a gameplay perspective. Already, someone can run TIE Fighters and Black Squadron, and the only way to differentiate them is with a very slight difference of symbols on their bases. So they could just officially say "models are the same sculpt, so use the bases to differentiate."

Of course, since there are no strict rules regarding repaints, I'm sure you'd have some try-hards/trolls who painted TIEs to look like First Order figters and FO fighters to look like Imperial TIEs, in an attempt to confuse the opponent. Just like you often saw people running Soontir Fel with a red TIE Interceptor and Jax with Fel's bloodstripe Interceptor, the inverse of the in-canon and on-card representations.

8 hours ago, Norell said:

On that note:

In every scifi, and especially in Star Wars and Star Trek, Earth is, or would be a densely overpopulated planet. In Star Wars many planets have their inhabitant count under one hundred million. In fact, planets over a billion inhabitants are very rare, so a token force can control key parts of most of the planets.

In Star Trek it's even more so. Even a million people on the same planet is a rarity, but it makes sense as the Trek civilization is young (ony a few hundred years of space travel) compared to Wars (more than 4k years).

That's what I mean. Unless you watch Hard SciFi, going after the "realism" of all that stuff is a fool's errand. It's a storytelling technique. No one looks at Lord of the Rings and counts how many men the Rohirrim were REALLY able to mobilize given their population density, because who cares? It's only if you make that stuff central to your story that it gains relevance, and Star Wars very decidedly doesn't.

16 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. The writing for the new timeline is great, and displays a very deep divide between the old Empire and the First Order. More than this, they are telling this story over several medias. Expanding the enjoyment of this franchise beyond the big screen!

If anyone is being lazy at this point I would say its these cry-baby viewers.

They are telling a story on a massive scale and people are expecting everything from the movies to be explained perfectly. Immediately.

This a growing galaxy. The story is being told and they are filling in the empty spaces much faster than they have ever had to before, but lazy, simple-minded, fanboys are too selfish to even give them a chance.


/rant.

And I don't care about the larger narrative, mostly, I just watch the movies. And as far as the movies are concerned, while TFA is a bit problematic (not explaining what the Republic is and why its destruction comes about), TLJ has no world-building problems on its own terms.

To the question at hand, I think new squadron bases and cards are the way to go, given what the comments here are saying, maybe with some new models for the ships not in previously.

1 minute ago, Stefan said:

That's what I mean. Unless you watch Hard SciFi, going after the "realism" of all that stuff is a fool's errand. It's a storytelling technique. No one looks at Lord of the Rings and counts how many men the Rohirrim were REALLY able to mobilize given their population density, because who cares?

In principle, I agree, and I was always very content with the vagueness in the OT and PT about how large things were (how many Rebels? how many Imperials? how many Jedi in the Order?). None of that really mattered to the story, and the story didn't elaborate much because flexibility and imprecision is far more useful there.

So what I greatly disliked about TLJ is that Rian Johnson felt it necessary to explicitly tell us that (1) the entirety of the Resistance was what we saw in the film: an X-Wing squadron, an A-Wing squadron, a (dead) Cobalt Squadron, and a warship, a frigate, and a small escort ship. That's it . He then also felt the need to tell the audience that (2) the remaining Resistance was about 400 people .

Why did he feel the need to explicate these two points? They don't help the story, and they only destroy the world-building. We're supposed to believe a galaxy-wide Resistance group was, at the start of TLJ, a mere three ships and three squadrons? Smaller than most Armada (the game) fleets? 400 people?!?!? Really, smaller than most of our graduating high school classes? When the Supremacy alone is said to have a crew of over 2 million, and when Nebulon-Bs used to have crews of 800 and when modern day aircraft carriers (1/6 the size of the Raddus ) have a crew of over 6,000.

These things are better left unspecified, but RJ went ahead and felt the need to specify them. Which was pointless. And then when he did, he made the numbers so small it's utterly preposterous. The film would flow better if we're not told that the entirety of the Resistance is this one puny cell and that it's just a few hundred people. Neither of these points needed to be made, and the New Trilogy universe would be better off it weren't hamstrung by such silly logistical points now.

I say do the reverse-Abrams (this isn’t dirty, I swear).

Take everything from the new trilogy, cut the length in half, and then scale all other numbers appropriately. So now the Resurgence class is a 1.6km long supercarrier that should look okay by an ISD

He specified it for the same reason Lucas specified the number of Clone Troopers on Geonosis: he wanted to emphasize that there were very few Resistance fighters left, that the Resistance was ending. The whole plot doesn't work if there are more than those 400 people, because the whole idea is them being whittled down to near extinction (when they all fit on the Falcon). It was a good storytelling decision, albeit a bad one in terms of world building. Had TLJ been a novel, or a series (like, say, Battlestar Galactica), I'm sure you could have gotten more nuance on - make it a whole fleet, explain how they evacuate, let them scatter, let Resistance cells be attacked simultaneously, etc. - but with the very constrained space that you have in a movie, that wasn't possible, much in the same way as in LotR, nobody except Rohan and Gondor react to the threat. The movies let you believe that like 70% of Middle Earth just chill out and watch the fight play out, whereas in the books, there's at least mention to the other factions. But in the movies, this all has to go. And it's the same for TLJ.

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

In principle, I agree, and I was always very content with the vagueness in the OT and PT about how large things were (how many Rebels? how many Imperials? how many Jedi in the Order?). None of that really mattered to the story, and the story didn't elaborate much because flexibility and imprecision is far more useful there.

So what I greatly disliked about TLJ is that Rian Johnson felt it necessary to explicitly tell us that (1) the entirety of the Resistance was what we saw in the film: an X-Wing squadron, an A-Wing squadron, a (dead) Cobalt Squadron, and a warship, a frigate, and a small escort ship. That's it . He then also felt the need to tell the audience that (2) the remaining Resistance was about 400 people .

Why did he feel the need to explicate these two points? They don't help the story, and they only destroy the world-building. We're supposed to believe a galaxy-wide Resistance group was, at the start of TLJ, a mere three ships and three squadrons? Smaller than most Armada (the game) fleets? 400 people?!?!? Really, smaller than most of our graduating high school classes? When the Supremacy alone is said to have a crew of over 2 million, and when Nebulon-Bs used to have crews of 800 and when modern day aircraft carriers (1/6 the size of the Raddus ) have a crew of over 6,000.

These things are better left unspecified, but RJ went ahead and felt the need to specify them. Which was pointless. And then when he did, he made the numbers so small it's utterly preposterous. The film would flow better if we're not told that the entirety of the Resistance is this one puny cell and that it's just a few hundred people. Neither of these points needed to be made, and the New Trilogy universe would be better off it weren't hamstrung by such silly logistical points now.

400 crew members, Poe was demoted to a Captain, who usualy lead approximately 100 soldiers, yes he was air Force, and we can assume the company in aunder strength, however this means that AFTER being demoted he was probly one of the top ten highest ranking members of the Resistance. He had every right to know the plan

Addressing the main topic... Sequel Trilogy Squadrons.

Resistance:

T-70 X-Wing

6 Hull, 3 Speed

2 Blue, 2 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Red Anti-Ship dice

Bomber, Escort

14 Point Cost

RZ-2 A-Wing

4 Hull, 5 Speed

2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Black Anti-Ship dice

Counter 2, Snipe 2

13 Point Cost

B/SF-17 Heavy Bomber

7 Hull, 2 Speed

2 Red Anti-Squad dice, 2 Red 2 Black Anti-Ship dice

Card Rule: When this Squadron is destroyed, roll 1 Red die. If you roll a hit, deal 1 damage to all squadrons within range 1 including friendly squadrons.

Bomber, Heavy

14 Point Cost

First Order:

TIE/fo

3 Hull, 4 Speed

2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Blue Anti-Ship dice

Swarm, Counter

9 Point Cost

TIE/sf

4 Hull, 4 Speed

1 Blue 2 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Blue Anti-Ship dice

Swarm, Intel

10 Point Cost

TIE Silencer

5 Hull, 4 Speed

1 Red 2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Red 1 Black Anti-Ship dice

Grit, Bomber

15 Points

Feedback on these proposed stats would be appreciated.

TIE Silencer couldn't really be a generic squadron, seeing as their was only one and it was Kylo's.

T-70 should have improved speed and the Improved A-Wing and TIE/FO should have heavier armor.

Your costs are also a little low, methinks. Your T-70 adds +1 HP and swaps out 2 blues for 2 blacks all for a 1-point increase? Likewise your TIE/FO swaps a blue for a black and adds counter for a 1 point increase?

TIE/SF was a 2-man attack fighter, so i'd probably make it Speed 4 Hull 5, at least 4 Blue Anti-Fighter Battery, and say 1 Black and 1 Blue A/S Battery. Maybe even 1 Red/1Blue A/S Battery.

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So what I greatly disliked about TLJ is that Rian Johnson felt it necessary to explicitly tell us that (1) the entirety of the Resistance was what we saw in the film: an X-Wing squadron, an A-Wing squadron, a (dead) Cobalt Squadron, and a warship, a frigate, and a small escort ship. That's it . He then also felt the need to tell the audience that (2) the remaining Resistance was about 400 people .

You and I are just gonna keep going round and round... lol

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Why did he feel the need to explicate these two points?

These two points are very important to the story they are telling.

This is something a large majority of fans misunderstand about the current state of the galaxy.

1.) The resistance is NOT funded or even supported by the New Republic . The Republic viewed the resistance as warmongers and doomsday preppers. (Like the people you hear about stockpiling AR-15s and ammo talking about the "government collapsing" or "Russia invading"). Keep in mind that this is also an era after 25 or so years of disarmament, even the New Republic only had a planetary defense fleet. With the cost of warships, and the restrictions on weapons it's no surprise they had only a handful of ships and even their primary warship, the Raddus was running on old tech (fuel instead of reactors).

2.) No one believed there was a threat. The known galaxy had been in a state of relative peace since the treaty was signed. The First Order were thought to be an extremist political faction with a small cadre of battleships. Not even a threat on a planetary scale. No one knew about the Supremacy, the dreadnoughts, star killer, or any of the other military tech the FO was hiding in the unknown regions. Even the resistance never imagined they had a fleet that size.

The reason why these points are very important to establish.

The story of TLJ was about finding hope.

They establish that the entire government of the known galaxy, their funding, their fleets, their soldiers, their leadership, was annihilated instantly by the First Order in TFA. This puts the galaxy in a state of extreme hopelessness. "If the FO could destroy an entire system what good would my [insert planetary fleet] be?" Especially when the FO's Dreadnoughts started spreading in the beginning of TLJ. (they have a massive fleet of them).

It was important to show how small a force was left to stand up to the FO.

The theme of the movie revolved around finding hope and doing what needed to be done after extreme loss. Luke had lost all hope. The galaxy had lost all hope. Rey had lost all hope. The resistance had lost all hope.

Seeing the resistance dwindle to nothing but transports and a hundred or so crewers and pilots yet still survive standing up to the onslaught of the FO was absolutely necessary. It's legends like that that inspire people to fight, to do what's right even when there seems like there's no hope.

"If the resistance could take on the FO with just 400 and survive, why am I not fighting them with my [insert planetary fleet here] ".


Period.

Without the details of how small to how large, this would just be another "underdog" story, like the OT, and that's not what this is.

3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

These things are better left unspecified, but RJ went ahead and felt the need to specify them. Which was pointless. And then when he did, he made the numbers so small it's utterly preposterous. The film would flow better if we're not told that the entirety of the Resistance is this one puny cell and that it's just a few hundred people. Neither of these points needed to be made, and the New Trilogy universe would be better off it weren't hamstrung by such silly logistical points now.

Considering what's stated above, again, I have to disagree. Just because you didn't grasp why these things were included, doesn't make them pointless.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

TIE Silencer couldn't really be a generic squadron, seeing as their was only one and it was Kylo's.

Considering that every squadron in the game has a generic version, I thought I'd put the TIE/vn in there as well.

I mean, Nym is flying a Scurrg, which was a prototype he stole. Yet you can also field generic Scurrgs.

My thoughts on the TIE/vn were that rather than the named character having the prototype, the generic TIE/vn's are prototypes and Kylo has the production model.

1 hour ago, idiewell said:

T-70 should have improved speed and the Improved A-Wing and TIE/FO should have heavier armor.

Your costs are also a little low, methinks. Your T-70 adds +1 HP and swaps out 2 blues for 2 blacks all for a 1-point increase? Likewise your TIE/FO swaps a blue for a black and adds counter for a 1 point increase?

TIE/SF was a 2-man attack fighter, so i'd probably make it Speed 4 Hull 5, at least 4 Blue Anti-Fighter Battery, and say 1 Black and 1 Blue A/S Battery. Maybe even 1 Red/1Blue A/S Battery.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll make some adjustments to these stats then before I try and proxy them in any games.

48 minutes ago, Indy_com said:

Considering that every squadron in the game has a generic version, I thought I'd put the TIE/vn in there as well.

I mean, Nym is flying a Scurrg, which was a prototype he stole. Yet you can also field generic Scurrgs.

My thoughts on the TIE/vn were that rather than the named character having the prototype, the generic TIE/vn's are prototypes and Kylo has the production model.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll make some adjustments to these stats then before I try and proxy them in any games.

No problemo, Indy. Happy to help

iI’m in favor of First Order and Resistance Subfactions like X-wing. They are starting to explore sub-faction-restricted abilities, and it makes for some interesting build choices.

So... squadrons? I’m not giving my take on all of them, just the models I would actually play with.

T-70 Speed 4, 6 Hull, 4 Blue Anti-Squad, 1 Black Anti-Ship, Escort, Bomber, 15 Points

• Poe Dameron T-70 “When attacking, you may change 1 die result to an Accuracy.” Speed 4, 6 Hull, 1 Blue 3 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Blue 1 Black Anti-Ship, Rogue, Bomber, 23 Points

RZ-2 Speed 5, 5 Hull, 2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Red Anti-Ship, Counter 2, 13 Points

• Tallie Lintra RZ-2 “Once per round, you may resolve the Counter keyword after a friendly squadron at Distance 1 defends.” Speed 5, 5 Hull, 2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Red Anti-Ship, Counter 2, 18 Points

Resistance Transport (TFA) Speed 3, 5 Hull, 2 Blue Anti-Squadron, 1 Blue 1 Black Anti-Ship, Strategic, 12 Points

• General Organa Resistance Transport (TFA) “At the start of the ship phase, you may toggle your activation slider to activate up to 2 friendly squadrons at close to medium range.” Speed 3, 5 Hull, 2 Blue Anti-Squadron, 1 Blue 1 Black Anti-Ship, Strategic, Relay 2, 20 Points

First Order TIE Fighter Speed 5, 4 Hull, 3 Blue Anti-Squad, 1 Blue Anti-Ship, Escort, Swarm, 13 Points

Special Forces TIE Fighter Speed 4, 5 Hull, 4 Blue Anti-Squad, 1 Red Anti-Ship Counter 2, Bomber, 14 Points

• TN-3465 Special Forces TIE Fighter (TIE/sf Pilot from the Phasma comic) “When you are activated by a squad command, you may attack twice if you do not move.” Speed 4, 5 Hull, 4 Blue Anti-Squad, 1 Black Anti-Ship Counter 2, Bomber, 15 Points

TIE Silencer Speed 5, 6 Hull, 3 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Black Anti-Ship, Snipe 3, 16 Points

• Kylo Ren TIE Silencer “When attacking, you may reroll any number of your blank results.” Speed 5, 6 Hull, 2 Blue 2 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Blue 1 Black Anti-Ship, Snipe 4, Rogue, 23 Points

4 hours ago, mad mandolorian said:

400 crew members, Poe was demoted to a Captain, who usualy lead approximately 100 soldiers, yes he was air Force, and we can assume the company in aunder strength, however this means that AFTER being demoted he was probly one of the top ten highest ranking members of the Resistance. He had every right to know the plan

Well...no. Je had just shown himself not to be trusted with the big plans, and wouldn't you know it, the second he learned of this one, he ****** it up. It's only at the end of the movie that he earns the right to know the plan by actually understanding a) the plan itself and b) what it means to lead.

4 hours ago, Indy_com said:

Addressing the main topic... Sequel Trilogy Squadrons.

Resistance:

T-70 X-Wing

6 Hull, 3 Speed

2 Blue, 2 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Red Anti-Ship dice

Bomber, Escort

14 Point Cost

RZ-2 A-Wing

4 Hull, 5 Speed

2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Black Anti-Ship dice

Counter 2, Snipe 2

13 Point Cost

B/SF-17 Heavy Bomber

7 Hull, 2 Speed

2 Red Anti-Squad dice, 2 Red 2 Black Anti-Ship dice

Card Rule: When this Squadron is destroyed, roll 1 Red die. If you roll a hit, deal 1 damage to all squadrons within range 1 including friendly squadrons.

Bomber, Heavy

14 Point Cost

First Order:

TIE/fo

3 Hull, 4 Speed

2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Blue Anti-Ship dice

Swarm, Counter

9 Point Cost

TIE/sf

4 Hull, 4 Speed

1 Blue 2 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Blue Anti-Ship dice

Swarm, Intel

10 Point Cost

TIE Silencer

5 Hull, 4 Speed

1 Red 2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad dice, 1 Red 1 Black Anti-Ship dice

Grit, Bomber

15 Points

Feedback on these proposed stats would be appreciated.

- T70 seems underpriced.

- The A-Wing I'd leave at three blue, the Snipe makes it strong enough for the added cost. If you add another point for a black die, I fear it would fall into the range of being too expensive but not yet good enough.

- I like the bomber.

- TIE/fo is good.

- TIE/sf is way too good as a source for Intel, I fear. Why would I ever buy a Jumpmaster?

- TIE Silencer is cool.

9 minutes ago, jmswood said:

iI’m in favor of First Order and Resistance Subfactions like X-wing. They are starting to explore sub-faction-restricted abilities, and it makes for some interesting build choices.

So... squadrons? I’m not giving my take on all of them, just the models I would actually play with.

T-70 Speed 4, 6 Hull, 4 Blue Anti-Squad, 1 Black Anti-Ship, Escort, Bomber, 15 Points

• Poe Dameron T-70 “When attacking, you may change 1 die result to an Accuracy.” Speed 4, 6 Hull, 1 Blue 3 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Blue 1 Black Anti-Ship, Rogue, Bomber, 23 Points

RZ-2 Speed 5, 5 Hull, 2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Red Anti-Ship, Counter 2, 13 Points

• Tallie Lintra RZ-2 “Once per round, you may resolve the Counter keyword after a friendly squadron at Distance 1 defends.” Speed 5, 5 Hull, 2 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Red Anti-Ship, Counter 2, 18 Points

Resistance Transport (TFA) Speed 3, 5 Hull, 2 Blue Anti-Squadron, 1 Blue 1 Black Anti-Ship, Strategic, 12 Points

• General Organa Resistance Transport (TFA) “At the start of the ship phase, you may toggle your activation slider to activate up to 2 friendly squadrons at close to medium range.” Speed 3, 5 Hull, 2 Blue Anti-Squadron, 1 Blue 1 Black Anti-Ship, Strategic, Relay 2, 20 Points

First Order TIE Fighter Speed 5, 4 Hull, 3 Blue Anti-Squad, 1 Blue Anti-Ship, Escort, Swarm, 13 Points

Special Forces TIE Fighter Speed 4, 5 Hull, 4 Blue Anti-Squad, 1 Red Anti-Ship Counter 2, Bomber, 14 Points

• TN-3465 Special Forces TIE Fighter (TIE/sf Pilot from the Phasma comic) “When you are activated by a squad command, you may attack twice if you do not move.” Speed 4, 5 Hull, 4 Blue Anti-Squad, 1 Black Anti-Ship Counter 2, Bomber, 15 Points

TIE Silencer Speed 5, 6 Hull, 3 Blue 1 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Black Anti-Ship, Snipe 3, 16 Points

• Kylo Ren TIE Silencer “When attacking, you may reroll any number of your blank results.” Speed 5, 6 Hull, 2 Blue 2 Black Anti-Squad, 1 Blue 1 Black Anti-Ship, Snipe 4, Rogue, 23 Points

Subfactions all the way.

- T70, I still wouldn't improve hull.

- Poe's ability I like.

- RZ-2, same thing, don't improve the hull. Why red anti-ship?

- Tallie, cool ability.

- Transport, unsure if it would wreck objective play, but I like the general design philosophy.

- Leia, cool ability, but together with Relay 2 And Strategic she seems underpriced.

- TIE/fo, I'd be hesitant about the hull.

- TN3465, nice ability

- Silencer, seems really close to the Defender, no?

- Kylo, cool abilities.

And don't be silly guys, of course there's a generic Silencer. The TIE Advanced was seen in the movies only once with Vader in it, and yet, there's no problem with it having generics. Besides, X-Wing already has them.

13 minutes ago, Stefan said:

Well...no. Je had just shown himself not to be trusted with the big plans, and wouldn't you know it, the second he learned of this one, he ****** it up. It's only at the end of the movie that he earns the right to know the plan by actually understanding a) the plan itself and b) what it means to lead.

I dont get why people feel the need to blame poe about mucking up the plan

Being a hardhead? Yes. Being cocky? Yes. Being foolish? Yes.

SCREWING UP A PLAN HE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT? How?

Thats like saying:

Me: you ate the leftover pizza in the fridge?

Brother: yeah, why?

Me: you stupid fool! Its all your fault! Thats the only thing ive got to eat and you ate it all!

Brother: why didnt you tell me you wanted it?

Me: oh i didnt trust you to not eat the pizza cause you like parachuting.

To blame poe solely for the failure of the plan doesnt work. (Honestly i blame the director overall)

If he was so suspect to ruining the plan why was he only demoted to captain? Why was he not locked in the brig the whole time? Why was he not assigned to a spot away from anything important?

Why why why why why is the mantra to this movie.

Its like watching a bad horror movie, telling the character to not go down to the basement cause they heard a noise.

1 hour ago, Stefan said:

- T70, I still wouldn't improve hull.

- Poe's ability I like.

- RZ-2, same thing, don't improve the hull. Why red anti-ship?

- Tallie, cool ability.

- Transport, unsure if it would wreck objective play, but I like the general design philosophy.

- Leia, cool ability, but together with Relay 2 And Strategic she seems underpriced.

- TIE/fo, I'd be hesitant about the hull.

- TN3465, nice ability

- Silencer, seems really close to the Defender, no?

- Kylo, cool abilities.

T-70 and RZ-2 both have better shields, than their predecessors. Some source material says the RZ-2 has some kind sensor jammer. These enhancements over the earlier models should translate to a more durable representation in the game.

I went with Strategic for the transport because it was used in an actual Capture the VIP scenario in the Poe comics.

Good point about General Organa. I think I would switch Relay to Intel and maybe raise cost.

I deliberately made the Silencer like the Defender. They’re both super fighters.