So, I've decided to pick up Triple Defenders. Currently it's

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Colonel Vessery (35)
Swarm Leader (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Countess Ryad (34)
Crack Shot (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Question is: Who's better? Vessery or Marek? They're the same price. Vess gets his TL goofiness,but Stele gets a bump is PS AND his fancy crit schtuff.

What's your experience with the squad? I know it can be competitive, and it's fun to fly. Just curious about the pilots.

I've seen this swarm leader squad do some nasty stuff. If you are running swarm leader, you are running the good Colonel. As long as you are getting close enough that the low PS ships are still able to target lock, you can't beat that level of dice modification.

Another triple defenders list is Rainbow Defenders. That is 3 TIE/D defenders with a tractor beam, a flechette cannon, and an ion cannon.

Vessery's target lock would be more beneficial with the extra swarm leader dice. But defenders still need actions. Somebody's got to lock for Vess, and if you're using the evade for SL, then you have a naked defender that's ripe for focusing down. With Marek, you'll at least have a focus for defending defenders. If you are considering higher PS, consider swarm leader on Rexler. He's expensive, his ability is a rare sight without outside focus (but when it does.... With swarm leader?!)

One other point, in your list, it will be helpful to throw the tie mk2 from Ryad to the Delta. She has no problems clearing stress with green K's, the Delta will need help.

Try Quickdraw with swarmleader and two defenders. Work wonders.

yeah you want mods from some source if Swarm Leader is eating your ept, making Vess the superior choice

never heard of Swarm Leader QD

5 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

never heard of Swarm Leader QD

I'm guessing it could work with FCS and Advanced Optics. Take your first shot with QD as normal, then dare your opponent to shoot at Quickdraw... he either shoots Evade/Focused Deltas, or potentially triggers a massive reprisal from QD...

I have just started using a list with SW QD, Youngster with debris gambit and the FO that remove stress and the one that gets the extra red for a stress with wired. (Can never remember their generic names) adv optics on the FO ships. Most of the list have a focus and two evades most of the time, making QD really fun and dangerous.

oh Optics! good call, completely forgot about that tech

hate to run into hotshotRau, though

then again, that's an extra QD attack

You need PTL/MkII on Ryad for Focus/ Target lock when needed. I ran a similar list in Tulsa. Except with Sabaac instead of the third defender.

2x def with Palpatine is a good list too !

Going back to the OP’s question: Maarek vs Vessery: I like flying them together. I had good success last year with this list (won a SC with it):

Palp Defenders (100)

•Colonel Vessery (36) - TIE Defender
Adaptability (0), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

•Maarek Stele (35) - TIE Defender
Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

Omicron Group Pilot (29) - Lambda-Class Shuttle
•Emperor Palpatine (8)

Adaptability Vessery up to PS7, then target lock with Maarek so that Vessery can get his free locks on both attacks. Vessery’s job is to strip Shields, agility, and/or tokens with his attacks, followed by Maarek +Juke + Palp for the guaranteed crit.

Most people knee-jerk and go after Vessery, not realizing that Juke Maarek is the real threat in the list.

is this our QD leader?

[100]

and yes, in this case Vessery is better than Steele. Dice mods are life, and you get FCS synergy.

honestly, there just aren't many cases in which Steele is preferable to either Vessery (with TL synergy) or Ryad (no TL synergy, but the green, variable speed k-turns are incredible)

I have used Steele in a tournie once (with Predator to get modifiers, imo just getting calculation isn't really worth it) and the ability is occasionally clutch, but it is sadly unreliable. Then again, if you DETEST Dash, Steele with a bid is really your only option.

So if you actually want to take Triple Defenders, then I'd go Ryad, Delta and Maarek because as mentioned before, x7 Defenders prefer to use their action to focus to help them stay around and if not that, usually barrel roll. It's not often I see TL being used. Yes you can use a PTL Ryad to get that TL for Vessery, BUT there's a lot of stress in this meta with Strezra, Asajj, Thermal Dets, etc. to the point that I'm not a fan of PTL Ryad right now. The Ryad, Maarek, & Delta squad I prefer looks something like this here .

If you really like Vessery, you'll probably want to look at a mixed squad that includes pilots like Quickdraw, Inquisitor, and Omega Leader that either retain TLs extremely well (QD & OL) or just take TL actions out of necessity (Inq & OL).

35 minutes ago, RStan said:

So if you actually want to take Triple Defenders, then I'd go Ryad, Delta and Maarek because as mentioned before, x7 Defenders prefer to use their action to focus to help them stay around and if not that, usually barrel roll. It's not often I see TL being used. Yes you can use a PTL Ryad to get that TL for Vessery, BUT there's a lot of stress in this meta with Strezra, Asajj, Thermal Dets, etc. to the point that I'm not a fan of PTL Ryad right now. The Ryad, Maarek, & Delta squad I prefer looks something like this here .

If you really like Vessery, you'll probably want to look at a mixed squad that includes pilots like Quickdraw, Inquisitor, and Omega Leader that either retain TLs extremely well (QD & OL) or just take TL actions out of necessity (Inq & OL).

my thoughts exactly regarding the PTL Ryad. I know that's the most common build for her, but in the stress meta we're living in right now, I don't really want to push myself into the stress pit.

It sounds like it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. I imagine it's great whenever Marek's ability procs, but it's also pretty nice having the re-roll option on all those SwarmLeader dice.

I like the input here, folks, keep it comin'!

Predator is a really good fallback from PTL now that stress is a thing and the x7 errata makes bumping/stress bad enough as is

and I'm not just saying that to promote my alt art

57 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Going back to the OP’s question: Maarek vs Vessery: I like flying them together. I had good success last year with this list (won a SC with it):

Palp Defenders (100)

•Colonel Vessery (36) - TIE Defender
Adaptability (0), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

•Maarek Stele (35) - TIE Defender
Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

Omicron Group Pilot (29) - Lambda-Class Shuttle
•Emperor Palpatine (8)

Adaptability Vessery up to PS7, then target lock with Maarek so that Vessery can get his free locks on both attacks. Vessery’s job is to strip Shields, agility, and/or tokens with his attacks, followed by Maarek +Juke + Palp for the guaranteed crit.

Most people knee-jerk and go after Vessery, not realizing that Juke Maarek is the real threat in the list.

I dig this. Might have to throw it on the table and see what it can do to people.

Any experience with flying it against recent meta? (i.e. Ghost/Fenn, NymRanda)?

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Predator is a really good fallback from PTL now that stress is a thing and the x7 errata makes bumping/stress bad enough as is

and I'm not just saying that to promote my alt art

True, I like pred, but I don't think I have the points for it. :/

aaaaand which alt art? Showme

8 minutes ago, Malabor said:

True, I like pred, but I don't think I have the points for it. :/

aaaaand which alt art? Showme

...I wish

I'm a writer long before I'm an illustrator, but I'll have to do until I can find someone willing to draw for me

anyway, not sure if I'd recommend giving Vess Crackshot and Ryad predator instead of Swarm Leader and Crackshot. I do like it when all x7s in a list are roughly equivalent in capability so that they're equally pains in the *** when they're the last x7 standing, but swarmleader can play some horrible mindgames when it comes to forcing target priorities. If your opponent targets Vess, Vess gets to swarm leader without a care (and your opponent is ignoring the x7 that TLs for vess). If your opponent targets...not Vess, then he's leaving Vess unchecked (and probably getting an extra die from the remaining, untargeted x7)

guess you gotta give both versions a try, which only gives you more reason to play x7s!

1 hour ago, Malabor said:

I dig this. Might have to throw it on the table and see what it can do to people.

Any experience with flying it against recent meta? (i.e. Ghost/Fenn, NymRanda)?

No I haven’t flown it in a while. I might have to bring it out and try it again.

I imagine it would do fairly well against Ghost+Fenn, so long as you can pin down Fenn and take him out quickly. Which should be pretty manageable if you can catch him in both Vessery’s and Maarek’s arcs in the first round of combat and you hit with the initial tractor beam shot.

After that it becomes a damage race with the Ghost. Fortunately with 6 health it will take at least 3 TLT shots to take out each defender, and with 3 agility + the evade (on Maarek) + Palp you should be able to stretch that out to 4 or 5 shots fairly easily. If you can get past the Ghost’s shields quickly and start sticking crits to the hull with Maarek it should start getting easier.

Unlike most other matchups, I would probably bring the Palp-shuttle into the fight early and try to tempt the Ghost into shooting at it rather than the defenders. You don’t want to be in the end game with the shuttle against the Ghost or even the Phantom, either of which can easily get behind the shuttle and then it’s game over.

as for Miranda + Nym (or anything), that’s going to be a much tougher matchup. In the SC I won there was only one game I lost and it was because of Miranda. Since she is higher PS than both defenders she can SLAM away if she gets caught in arc and can regen shields when not, making it tough to whittle her down and start sticking her with crits. Still, if you are lucky and can manage to catch her in both defenders arcs early then you might be able to burn through her shields and hit her with a crit in one round.

36 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Unlike most other matchups, I would probably bring the Palp-shuttle into the fight early and try to tempt the Ghost into shooting at it rather than the defenders. You don’t want to be in the end game with the shuttle against the Ghost or even the Phantom, either of which can easily get behind the shuttle and then it’s game over.

and hope that they take the bait. I have found, and I bet most would agree, the Defenders really hate that double-tapping TLT. I think between the trip-defender squad and this Palp/Defender list there might be something that can be competitive AND fun to fly.

3 Defenders isn't super good in the meta at the moment, but two defenders plus Omega Leader works wonders. Especially with some Expertise mods in there.
For Ryad I think PTL/x7/Twin Ion is the best option
Vessery likes x/7 Juke or x/7 Swarm, x/7 Expertise or Tie/D Ruthlessness Tractor
I haven't tried Marek out much yet, but I think ht would be best with Predator or Expertise, just so he can save that focus token for defense.

The problem you have to deal with is that Fenn Rau is EVERYWHERE. You need tokenless mods to be able to deal with him.

Also honorable mention for Swarm Leader builds, Inquisitor or other Adv with title is always fun

I run 3x7 almost exclusively these days.

Swarmleader vessery , a delta x7,and push ryad with twin ion mk2.

It's just fine in the meta today.

It's important to have push on Ryad to feed the lock to vessery.

The list puts out disgusting amounts of damage. 10 to 14 dice with all the mods ...pretty...pretty....pretty good.

I am personally in the Maarek camp. More because if Vessery is ever the last one standing he is basically an expensive Generic. Where Vessery is a great early game threat, Maarek is a threat the entire match.

I also feel like Vessery requires a small amount of formation flying it can be loosely done but still need things done right. Maarek can be separated or much more unpredictable and not be just another Generic that can be overlooked.

thats my couple of pennies.

Vessery is going to be best when there is a source of Target Locks (so, if running with Quickdraw, who appears to be the best imperial ship), or when you need a TL to handle the mods on a high-dice attack.

Maarek Stele is probably fine in a lot of other cases. I've heard good things about him with A Score To Settle (which is also pretty cool on Vess). Maarek is probably pretty solid to take when you don't have lots of target locks for Vessery elsewhere in the list. Either him or Countess.

PTL/Mk.II Countess is great. I also kinda like Intensity. You get enough free evades that you'll frequently be able to flip back over without any problems, and having a focus for those 3 red and 3 green dice is key. Adding barrel rolls to a ship with a limited number practical moves (due to /x7) is really nice, and it doesn't fuss with stress. I've been playing some with an Intensity/Engine Upgrade Ryad, but that's probably more cute than good.

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I feel like Expertise could be OK on any TIE Defender, or a mix of Expertise and A Score to Settle. However, if going for Expertise, TIE Mk.II is a must. It's great on all Defenders, but must-have on Expertise.

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Mad props also to Rainbow TIE/D. I love that list.