Wraiths forcing rerolls

By Parakitor, in Runewars Rules Questions

Wraiths have a neat ability. "While defending, before the attacker rerolls, reroll up to [stable] dice."

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I hadn't given it much thought when this was announced, because I was relatively new to the game, with limited experience and only a small pool of units to choose from. Now I'm realizing this has the potential to be crazy good - if I understand correctly. So does this kick in every time my opponent decides to reroll during an attack? Let's say a 9-tray unit of Berserkers rolls double hit on red, and blank on blue. They have two full rerolls. However, if they choose to reroll that blue, they know they'll likely lose the double hit because of the Wraiths' ability (that's the crazy cool mind game part). If the Uthuk player isn't happy with the first reroll, and wants to reroll again, does my Wraiths unit get to reroll [stable] number of dice again? I'm guessing the answer is "yes" because it's "while defending."

Hmmm, if this actually proved true then by the same wording darnati keep their dice if they don’t reroll (but wraiths could force them to reroll).

I’m about 90% sure it’s just once, after the initial roll. It’s still really good, forcing a reroll will ruin single rank units, and making an opponent fish for another good dice can be great.

1 hour ago, Jukey said:

Hmmm, if this actually proved true then by the same wording darnati keep their dice if they don’t reroll (but wraiths could force them to reroll).

I’m about 90% sure it’s just once, after the initial roll. It’s still really good, forcing a reroll will ruin single rank units, and making an opponent fish for another good dice can be great.

Ah good catch with the Darnati wording. So "the attacker rerolls" here could be replaced with "Attack Step 4 - Reroll for extra ranks," meaning that the Wraiths' ability kicks in after the opponent rolls dice, but before rerolls begin.

So follow-up question: if my opponent decides that 3 hits on red-blue is great, and chooses not to reroll, do the Wraiths still get to reroll their dice? My hunch is "yes" because they would still enter the "Rerolls for ranks" step, but that only works if we suppose that "rerolls" refers to the step, and not the act of rerolling dice. By this interpretation, after the Wraiths reroll a die, the attacking unit may then use their rerolls because the Wraiths' ability happens first, regardless of the opponent's intent to reroll.

By my understanding of RAI reroll is referring to the reroll phase on both wraiths and darnati, so wraiths force rerolls, and darnati lose dice without reroll. A better rules guru could probably shed more light on the wording though.

Far as I understand though, yes, reroll them dice!

Same understanding here.

I haven't looked at it recently, but my understanding has always been that the Wraiths' forced reroll happens first, followed by the attacking unit's rerolls.

This makes Wraiths strong predators on 1-rank units. Not only can they glide thtough those units, but because those units usually lack rerolls, the Wraiths can defend pretty well against them.

4 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I haven't looked at it recently, but my understanding has always been that the Wraiths' forced reroll happens first, followed by the attacking unit's rerolls.

This makes Wraiths strong predators on 1-rank units. Not only can they glide thtough those units, but because those units usually lack rerolls, the Wraiths can defend pretty well against them.

This+getting flanks. A 3x1 of Wraiths floating through a 9 tray spearstar and then flank attacking could do some serious damage for minimal risk.

My dumb Wraith question is how does the auto-reform work with a charge modifier? If I Metered March a move+charge modifier and pass through an enemy. Then use MM to stop while touching their rear, do I reform then attack? Attack from the charge and then reform?

Edited by Church14
2 hours ago, Church14 said:

This+getting flanks. A 3x1 of Wraiths floating through a 9 tray spearstar and then flank attacking could do some serious damage for minimal risk.

My dumb Wraith question is how does the auto-reform work with a charge modifier? If I Metered March a move+charge modifier and pass through an enemy. Then use MM to stop while touching their rear, do I reform then attack? Attack from the charge and then reform?

The best they could float through is 2 ranks. A 4 move by 1 rank of Wraiths can only ever fully clear 2 full ranks of other units. I think the only time that more than one unit can come in to play would be if the other units were side by side in close enough proximity at about the same range with the wraiths straddling the center line of the split.

Edited by Aetheriac
1 minute ago, Aetheriac said:

The best they could float through is 2 ranks. A 4 move by 1 rank of Wraiths can only ever fully clear 2 full ranks of other units.

Yeah. I figured that out a while after I asked. The basic question still applies. My guess is you do the charge attack and then reform but I’m not clear

Reform is after the move, the charge is part of the move, I would think.

Given that a charge is a modifier and not a bonus action, I think they charge, attack, reform.

If only they had a blue melee bonus action lol

14 minutes ago, Jukey said:

Given that a charge is a modifier and not a bonus action, I think they charge, attack, reform.

If only they had a blue melee bonus action lol

That was my original thought, but read how you initiate an attack after a collision during a charge. It tells you to start a melee attack action. You now have two actions that are supposed to occur after your move and you are supposed to resolve all effects in a window in the order you choose.

I feel like I’m still missing something though. I think it may be that “after” in the charge instructions forces the melee action first.

56 minutes ago, Church14 said:

That was my original thought, but read how you initiate an attack after a collision during a charge. It tells you to start a melee attack action. You now have two actions that are supposed to occur after your move and you are supposed to resolve all effects in a window in the order you choose.

I feel like I’m still missing something though. I think it may be that “after” in the charge instructions forces the melee action first.

If the order does get to be determined by the wraiths, that would actually be fitting with their double attack actions.

If a unit resolving a charge collides with an enemy unit, the charging unit performs a melee attack action targeting that enemy unit after the move is complete.

After you perform a {March} or {Shift}, perform a {Reform}.

If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order.

I would say that you are correct, and that these have the same timing (after the move), so therefore you can order the effects however you like. So yes, you could (with Metered March), move through, reform, then attack to get a flank charge.

Edited by FranquesEnbiens
13 minutes ago, FranquesEnbiens said:

If a unit resolving a charge collides with an enemy unit, the charging unit performs a melee attack action targeting that enemy unit after the move is complete.

After you perform a {March} or {Shift}, perform a {Reform}.

If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order.

I would say that you are correct, and that these have the same timing (after the move), so therefore you can order the effects however you like. So yes, you could (with Metered March), move through, reform, then attack to get a flank charge.

Huh. Certainly gives Waiqar a boost to Demoralize Their Forces .

Also, looks like the 3x1 can pull this off.

2 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Also, looks like the 3x1 can pull this off.

I think they can - no rerolls hurts, but they'll still do an average of 6 damage with RRB, and be on your flank. They are a cheap threat three, which is new for Waiqar, and will be hard to predict.

Oh joy! Wraiths are pretty awesome then.