I have recently finished reading Dark Disciple and was thinking it would be interesting to have a title for the Lancer to fit Asaj's ship.

While the book speaks of multiple modifications the only one that is talked about is the ships repeated use of a cloaking device. But I thought it would be a bit more interesting to add a counter attack feature to the cloak. You would still receive the weapons disabled token and not get your attack, but if someone was willing to take a shot at your cloaked ship you could fire back.

For the de-cloak action I was thinking letting the ship do a standard small ship barrel roll. This would be further than a normal large base barrel roll and also let the ship slide more forward or back. This would perhaps make it a lil harder to figure out where it would come out of cloak at.

Thoughts? Does the counter attack ability make it too strong? Should it be limited to once per round or mobile arc only?
Also thoughts on cost obviously not a 0 point card but what would you cost it at 3 I think.

Also are there any other ships you can think of that are missing unique titles from the expanded universe.

Oh dear lord cloaked large ships

You better be careful when defining that because if you give a large base a 2-roll it'll fly halfway across the table

It's exactly why Cloaking device is small ship only, despite no ship that small having a Cloaking device

Giving Ventress two extra evasion dice seems problematic.

19 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Oh dear lord cloaked large ships

You better be careful when defining that because if you give a large base a 2-roll it'll fly halfway across the table

It's exactly why Cloaking device is small ship only, despite no ship that small having a Cloaking device

I was thinking using a standard 1 barrel roll as the decloak. Still moves the ship more than a regular large base barrel roll but not halfway across the table.

9 minutes ago, NoZone said:

Giving Ventress two extra evasion dice seems problematic.

It may be problematic, but would force you from choosing between the shadow caster title and the banshee title.

My intent was to create a title that was thematic to Ventress's ship from the book and also create a new title to encourage different builds for this ship. I think having the weapons disable token could help to balance out her extra dice.

Large base cloak should just do the +2 dice, no movement on decloak.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Large base cloak should just do the +2 dice, no movement on decloak.

Or standard Barrel Roll only, no boost, and +1 green die.

5 hours ago, Lonestar83 said:

This now turns the Lancer into the most broken ship in the game. More maneuverable than the Jumpmaster, and harder to kill.

Sth like this:

Quote

*Banshee

Title, Lancer class.. blah blah only.

Your upgrade bar gains the [cloak] action.

While cloaked, you may perform attacks against targets in your primary and mobile firing arcs.

4 pts (because let's be real, it's better than the Shadowcaster)

ANd the large ship cloak rules:

+1 agi, large ship barrel roll or boost

There is a reason large ships can't cloak and it had better stay that way. I don't know what the even more horrifying version of time walk Asaaj is, and I certainly don't want to find out.

The problem is that I don't think cloak will ever be competitive except on the phantom (or a pure support ship that doesn't care about shooting). Since you have to take Cloak as your action, it only really works on the turn before combat, where you might come in at an unexpected angle. If cloaking without ACD actually worked, the low PS generic Phantoms might have had a chance, but they never did. Cloaking has only worked with ACD. I know there is the fun Jakku build, but even that isn't competitive. Giving the Lancer a way to Cloak doesn't really help it, as that renders half of your list doing absolutely nothing (except maybe blocking, which, with Cloaking, it would actually be pretty decent at, but with so many passive mods, blocking aint what it used to be).

I don't really know the solution to this. I really like the thematic flair of the cloaking, but don't know how to implement in a way that would not be A) terrible or B) terribly OP.

I think the Banshee should have a sensor jammer-like effect:

Banshee (title, Shadowcaster only, 3 points)
When you are defending you may receive 1 ion token to force the defender to reroll up to 2 [hit] results. Dice rerolled in this way cannot be modified by a focus token spent for its standard effect.

Weak to a few things, but strong against the current meta, and with an ion stipulation that very handily keeps it under control sholud it prove a tad strong in a vacuum.

OP: I would make it 3 pts. Not bad as long as she cannot shoot, and should state cannot use abilities while cloaked either. So no stress or tractors.

Asajj has a 2pt title already. Its called Latts Razzi.

Any title that adds any defense or repositioning to lancer better remove the crew slot or you just have a broken ship.

Should there be a Banshee Title for the Lancer? Yes, I do believe so.

But my version is that you must equip a stealth device, and that stealth device is not removed upon a hit. Either a negative point cost (accounting for the cost of Stealth Device, or 0 points for a single large ship with an agility of 3 and no mod slot, and no additional downside to being hit.)

As stated by others, Cloaking a lancer would be really weird, unless we created large-ship cloaking rules, which I still think would be wonky and unnecessary.

40 minutes ago, Yakostovian said:

Should there be a Banshee Title for the Lancer? Yes, I do believe so.

But my version is that you must equip a stealth device, and that stealth device is not removed upon a hit. Either a negative point cost (accounting for the cost of Stealth Device, or 0 points for a single large ship with an agility of 3 and no mod slot, and no additional downside to being hit.)

As stated by others, Cloaking a lancer would be really weird, unless we created large-ship cloaking rules, which I still think would be wonky and unnecessary.

Yes, because a Timewalk Asajj needs to be EVEN HARDER to kill.

13 hours ago, SirCormac said:

The problem is that I don't think cloak will ever be competitive except on the phantom (or a pure support ship that doesn't care about shooting). Since you have to take Cloak as your action, it only really works on the turn before combat, where you might come in at an unexpected angle. If cloaking without ACD actually worked, the low PS generic Phantoms might have had a chance, but they never did. Cloaking has only worked with ACD. I know there is the fun Jakku build, but even that isn't competitive. Giving the Lancer a way to Cloak doesn't really help it, as that renders half of your list doing absolutely nothing (except maybe blocking, which, with Cloaking, it would actually be pretty decent at, but with so many passive mods, blocking aint what it used to be).

I don't really know the solution to this. I really like the thematic flair of the cloaking, but don't know how to implement in a way that would not be A) terrible or B) terribly OP.

I have flown the quadjumper build with cloaking device and yes it is not competitive but is a lot of fun to fly in casual games. Which is what I play mostly.

There is also the option of taking an illicit EMP Device or Feedback Array. I am not sure how you would judge them to interact with the cloak token but it could be interesting. Would also let them create other illicit upgrades

And yes I will admit I made the original idea OP with the ability to Counterattack. But I think the title needed something else with the cloak to make it usable otherwise you would just keep on using the shadowcaster title.

40 minutes ago, Yakostovian said:

Should there be a Banshee Title for the Lancer? Yes, I do believe so.

But my version is that you must equip a stealth device, and that stealth device is not removed upon a hit. Either a negative point cost (accounting for the cost of Stealth Device, or 0 points for a single large ship with an agility of 3 and no mod slot, and no additional downside to being hit.)

As stated by others, Cloaking a lancer would be really weird, unless we created large-ship cloaking rules, which I still think would be wonky and unnecessary.

Sounds very similar to the punishing one title. I think this one would make TimeWalk even more powerful, But I like the idea and yes before this could work there would have to be large ship cloaking rules but that is not so difficult to come up with.

If that "permanent stealth device title" was a thing...all hail the new Sabine meta.

2 green dice base. Add another for stealth. Plus a focus result for her ability. Oh and Rec Spec crew. Combine her with Timewalk Asajj. Have fun!

2 hours ago, viedit said:

Yes, because a Timewalk Asajj needs to be EVEN HARDER to kill.

OK, good observation. It's one I certainly hadn't thought of before.

2 hours ago, Lonestar83 said:

I have flown the quadjumper build with cloaking device and yes it is not competitive but is a lot of fun to fly in casual games. Which is what I play mostly.

There is also the option of taking an illicit EMP Device or Feedback Array. I am not sure how you would judge them to interact with the cloak token but it could be interesting. Would also let them create other illicit upgrades

And yes I will admit I made the original idea OP with the ability to Counterattack. But I think the title needed something else with the cloak to make it usable otherwise you would just keep on using the shadowcaster title.

Sounds very similar to the punishing one title. I think this one would make TimeWalk even more powerful, But I like the idea and yes before this could work there would have to be large ship cloaking rules but that is not so difficult to come up with.

I don't know if cloaking rules for large ships are the way to go, but perhaps. I still think they would be wonky and weird, but difficult? No. We have several large-base cloaking rule pitches as it is, and they mostly agree on the methodology.

2 hours ago, viedit said:

If that "permanent stealth device title" was a thing...all hail the new Sabine meta.

2 green dice base. Add another for stealth. Plus a focus result for her ability. Oh and Rec Spec crew. Combine her with Timewalk Asajj. Have fun!

You make fair points, but am I correct in detecting some hostility?

Color me also nervous about large-base cloaking.

However, an interesting title would be to start the game cloaked, but then not be able to recloak once you decloak. For rules, I think using the 1-straight templates instead of the 2-straight on large base. This would give protection on the approach, and a one-time re-position, which would be pretty cool.

For a counter-attack mechanism, it'd be better to borrow from R5-P8 than Dengar.

Banshee (Title, Lancer only) You begin the game cloaked. Once per turn, after defending while cloaked, if the attacker is inside your mobile firing arc, you may roll 1 attack die. On a [hit] result, the attacker suffers one damage. (I have no idea how to balance a point cost).