Turrets, if you equip a turret lose all bomb, missile and torpedo slots.
Phantom/Ghost interaction, second shot at the end of the round must be carried out by a turret equipped to the shuttle.
That should take care of the lists I don't enjoy playing.
Miranda is now either a turret ship or a missile ship not both as it Nym.
Ghost is neutered.
Hire this man, FFG.
Miranda is still PWT, just not a double pew pew regen extra dice machine.
so maybe manageable.
1 hour ago, markte said:Turrets, if you equip a turret lose all bomb, missile and torpedo slots.
Phantom/Ghost interaction, second shot at the end of the round must be carried out by a turret equipped to the shuttle.
That should take care of the lists I don't enjoy playing.
Miranda is now either a turret ship or a missile ship not both as it Nym.
Ghost is neutered.
Phantom change is a bad idea. Ghost might actually be stronger with such a change. They can now equip also an Autoblaster Turret and cover the donut hole. It's also overly complicated. It would be far better to leave the titles mostly unchanged, but add points costs or such (to the titles maybe, but better to the turrets, to Engine Upgrade (3 points small, 6 points large base), and to Fenn Rau). This Phantom change a commonly suggested one which really irks me because it's really terrible change which doesn't really fix the problem.
Turret-and-ordance nerf is also a bad idea: it would be far better to nerf the ships which are actually a problem, rather than coming up with a ridiculous rule like this. Goodbye any fun Y-Wing builds, because Miranda's pilot ability is a problem. Changing Miranda's Pilot Ability to exclude turrets (and maybe Missile/Torpedo, but go one step at a time) is a far better plan. Nym probably just needs cost increases, like Bomblets up to 4 point, Harpoons to 5, and increasing the cost of most turrets (1 point everything but Blaster, 2 points TLT, and lower the cost of weak turret ships like Y-Wing, HWK, and Aggressor).
Except Wookiees and Gunboats are now king. I could live with the latter.
3 hours ago, markte said:Turrets, if you equip a turret lose all bomb, missile and torpedo slots.
Phantom/Ghost interaction, second shot at the end of the round must be carried out by a turret equipped to the shuttle.
That should take care of the lists I don't enjoy playing.
Miranda is now either a turret ship or a missile ship not both as it Nym.
Ghost is neutered.
No.
Change Miranda's to primary weapon only.
Original Ghost/Phantom titles to where the original attack has to have come from the primary or special arc. At least it promotes flying skill.
I don't have enough experience with Fenn to comment on him.
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:Phantom change is a bad idea. Ghost might actually be stronger with such a change. They can now equip also an Autoblaster Turret and cover the donut hole.
I'm not saying I'm in favor of this change, but covering the donut hole wouldn't be terrible. A TLT doing 4 damage a turn is more problematic than potentially 2 from TLT on one target, and 2 from autoblaster on another.
Furthermore, the Maul/Ezra combo is less good on autoblasters. Maul is still great, but Ezra's ability is not good.
TLT add text in the middle, “...if the first attack hits, you may perform this attack again...”
All turret upgrades add text, “the Defender may use defensive bonuses”
Miranda’s Pilot ability “primary weapon only”
Nym looses his turret upgrade altogether (hello —more like— Punisher 2)
Phantom I and II are in themselves unique, cannot be fielded in the same squad.
Sabine Crew add text, “...if you do, discard this card.” so she’s single use.
....anyone else?
Edited by clanofwolvesThe suggestion to remove missile and bomb slots when you equip TLT is actually one of the better ideas I've seen. I would limit it to TLT though & leave the other poor turrets alone. Specifically targets Miranda & Nym. Missile turret ships should not be a thing. Dengar doesn't have torp slots now & he is balanced.
The idea to require double turrets for double shots on the Ghost is NOT very good. When the Ghost came out, TLT could only fire once on the end of round shot. Lets go back to that. Ghost only needs a slight nerf.
Edited by Dengar5How about instead of removing the slots you did the mobile turrent route with it? You can equip turrents, missles and bombs BUT only one can be active at a time and it takes a turn to swap between them. Kinda thematic, requires waaay more planning. It basically locks the tool chest without dumping all the tools on the floor. Now the ghost, I got nothing.
5 hours ago, markte said:That should take care of the lists I don't enjoy playing.
Cool. Personally I don't enjoy playing against High PS action-stacking arc dodges, especially those that are so reliable on defensive mods that
even if
you can catch them with a primary arc now and then they still more often than not just shrug off attack dice.
Because unless you have higher PS or forms of auto-damage or highly-reliable turrets, these lists are impossible to damage.
Please fix these too, thanks!
And then once those are fixed, along with turrets and bombs, we can go back to everyone playing nothing butTIE Swarm because it's the pinnacle of jousting efficiency. X-Wing Saved!
I would really like TLT hit in some way, at the VERY least requiring a focus to fire so that you can't just reposition without a single thought or consideration
at the very least, however, non-token modifiers should NEVER work outside of your firing arc. This takes care of idiocy like the ghost and even more thoughtless stuff like Rey that gets full mods with expertise and still savages your *** with four dice regardless of her arc
4 hours ago, Sekac said:I'm not saying I'm in favor of this change, but covering the donut hole wouldn't be terrible. A TLT doing 4 damage a turn is more problematic than potentially 2 from TLT on one target, and 2 from autoblaster on another.
Furthermore, the Maul/Ezra combo is less good on autoblasters. Maul is still great, but Ezra's ability is not good.
Depends on what your facing. Most turns, I think I aim to 4-dice Primary + TLT (usually the same target), and not Autoblaster + TLT. Against most things, that's probably about as good. Autoblaster comes in when you're dealing with arc dodgers and folks like Guri or Fenn Rau who want to get to spots you can't reach. And then they get a face full of Autoblaster, and something which ought to have had a good day against a Ghost does a lot worse against it.
But folks seem to have this idea: "make it use the Phantom Turret (but with the Ghost's crew and modifiers, because that isn't going to be confusing at all), and they'll have to buy TLT twice. But that's not what's going to happen. The basic goal (the list can't afford everything it wants) could be accomplished through points costs increases, without adding increased confusion, and without adding more tools to a list which doesn't need more tools.
2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
Cool. Personally I don't enjoy playing against High PS action-stacking arc dodges, especially those that are so reliable on defensive mods that even if you can catch them with a primary arc now and then they still more often than not just shrug off attack dice.
Because unless you have higher PS or forms of auto-damage or highly-reliable turrets, these lists are impossible to damage.
Please fix these too, thanks!
And then once those are fixed, along with turrets and bombs, we can go back to everyone playing nothing butTIE Swarm because it's the pinnacle of jousting efficiency. X-Wing Saved!
This is actually a lot of the problem with the 100pt Rebel Ace lists.
Lowie’s ability basically reads “evade for my friends”. C3PO is basically an evade. A regen Ace (Poe, Miranda, Nora) can take (or keep) a focus and avoid 3 damage regen one.
And when damage does get through, it doesn’t go where you want it too.
It plays different but is exactly the same as Imperial token stacking, it’s just less vulnerable, and protects the back of the formation with a turret and a Bomblet.
My TLT change has long been;
-You cannot equip bomb, missile and torp upgrades.
Then Ghost cane along. I guess you could add small ship only but I don’t know if that is hitting the real problem - Rebel Fenn should cost 23-24pts.
The above TLT nerf hampers Miranda and Nym without affecting the Y-Wing, HWK and Aggressor too much. Personally I don’t think 23-25pts for those ships with TLT is okay either but that’s me. Many people feel that they are okay and that Turrets are just fine.
I’m not going to get started on Regen. It’s very powerful and needs an overhaul to balance it with Evade.
7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:Phantom change is a bad idea. Ghost might actually be stronger with such a change. They can now equip also an Autoblaster Turret and cover the donut hole. It's also overly complicated. It would be far better to leave the titles mostly unchanged, but add points costs or such (to the titles maybe, but better to the turrets, to Engine Upgrade (3 points small, 6 points large base), and to Fenn Rau). This Phantom change a commonly suggested one which really irks me because it's really terrible change which doesn't really fix the problem.
Turret-and-ordance nerf is also a bad idea: it would be far better to nerf the ships which are actually a problem, rather than coming up with a ridiculous rule like this. Goodbye any fun Y-Wing builds, because Miranda's pilot ability is a problem. Changing Miranda's Pilot Ability to exclude turrets (and maybe Missile/Torpedo, but go one step at a time) is a far better plan. Nym probably just needs cost increases, like Bomblets up to 4 point, Harpoons to 5, and increasing the cost of most turrets (1 point everything but Blaster, 2 points TLT, and lower the cost of weak turret ships like Y-Wing, HWK, and Aggressor).
cost increases for problem ships and ordinance makes sense, and TLT needs a nerf. i would point out that ion turret already costs 5 and isnt a problem at all. like Dace Bonearm isnt crushingly oppressive right now yknow?
the issue is chassis point costs being really imbalanced.
3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:The basic goal (the list can't afford everything it wants) could be accomplished through points costs increases,
Sure. But FFG has made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of altering points costs. It's a workable solution, but it's also never going to be anything more than a dream. People are trying go think of solutions that might actually happen.
1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:cost increases for problem ships and ordinance makes sense, and TLT needs a nerf. i would point out that ion turret already costs 5 and isnt a problem at all. like Dace Bonearm isnt crushingly oppressive right now yknow?
the issue is chassis point costs being really imbalanced.
What I've been thinking is a 2 point increase to TLT, a 1 point increase in everything but Blaster, and Y/HWK/Aggressor down 2 points each, maybe generic K-Wings down 1 (maybe Esege too). As a result, Miranda and Nym and Ghosts are more expensive for any reasonable turret, but most ships with secondary weapon turrets stay flat or get a buff. Generic Scurrg get a bit of a ding, but it's a strong platform in terms of statline, cost, and dial even before a turret, and taking a point off of one of those seems unnecessary.
But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
Just now, Sekac said:Sure. But FFG has made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of altering points costs. It's a workable solution, but it's also never going to be anything more than a dream. People are trying go think of solutions that might actually happen.
Well, maybe FFG will finally listen to the best changes being points cost changes. They've listened, somewhat, to calls for nerfs. Maybe they'll finally go in the right direction. I dunno.
But I'm still going to say when I think folks are making up "solutions" which should never happen. Phantom-Turret is a really terrible idea. Likewise Turrets locking out bombs. Or a "four upgrade cap."
4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:What I've been thinking is a 2 point increase to TLT, a 1 point increase in everything but Blaster, and Y/HWK/Aggressor down 2 points each, maybe generic K-Wings down 1 (maybe Esege too). As a result, Miranda and Nym and Ghosts are more expensive for any reasonable turret, but most ships with secondary weapon turrets stay flat or get a buff. Generic Scurrg get a bit of a ding, but it's a strong platform in terms of statline, cost, and dial even before a turret, and taking a point off of one of those seems unnecessary.
But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
Well, maybe FFG will finally listen to the best changes being points cost changes. They've listened, somewhat, to calls for nerfs. Maybe they'll finally go in the right direction. I dunno.
But I'm still going to say when I think folks are making up "solutions" which should never happen. Phantom-Turret is a really terrible idea. Likewise Turrets locking out bombs. Or a "four upgrade cap."
you think ion and dorsal turret are broken? im so confused.
2 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:you think ion and dorsal turret are broken? im so confused.
No, he's simultaneously discounting the under-performing turret carriers so no net change and a net buff for blaster turret. Which doesn't exactly future-proof but would make sense as a game patch if this were a computer game.
33 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:No, he's simultaneously discounting the under-performing turret carriers so no net change and a net buff for blaster turret. Which doesn't exactly future-proof but would make sense as a game patch if this were a computer game.
then why increase the cost of Dorsal Turret and Ion cannon turret?
25 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:then why increase the cost of Dorsal Turret and Ion cannon turret?
Really not sure what isn't following for you, here? -2 +1 is still a net buff for those ships.
39 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:Really not sure what isn't following for you, here? -2 +1 is still a net buff for those ships.
there was no -2 in any of the comments i read.
also why subtract then add?
Just stop all this nerf nonsense!!!!!!!
Kylo ren, Quckdraw and Epsilon Ace just won UK Systems Open the LARGEST X-wing event EVER!! And the tournament feature numerous top players, system open winners and at least one Worlds winner.
No turrets, Harpoons, or Bombs in that list.
The idea behind twin laser turret is that it was meant to be a saturation weapon, put a ton of lasers in the air and you are bound to hit your target, eventually. With that in mind, why wasn't it like a gunner effect, i.e roll three dice, if it hits, cancel all dice and deal one damage. If it misses, perform this attack again?
Wouldn't that be better?