Wouldn't that frustrate player's who've bought multiples? Sorry, you can't use more than two, sucks for you.

Then why stop with Flotillas? Why not put a limit on everything. I know I'm sick of seeing 4 Mc30 builds.

2 hours ago, eliteone said:

I think the rule might just limit the number of flotillas someone can place on the table, vs. the tabling rule if all small or larger ships are destroyed.

I don't think that limiting the number of flotillas is needed. Once other relevant fixes (tabling rule, relay) are done, there would be much less incentive to sink points into max flotilla fleets and significantly more risk in that approach, so the meta will balance itself.

8 minutes ago, Karneck said:

Wouldn't that frustrate player's who've bought multiples? Sorry, you can't use more than two, sucks for you.

Then why stop with Flotillas? Why not put a limit on everything. I know I'm sick of seeing 4 Mc30 builds.

You are seeing 4 MC30 builds? I miss being able to do those. Extreme squads really makes them tough for me. How are people flying them?

28 minutes ago, ryanabt said:

You are seeing 4 MC30 builds? I miss being able to do those. Extreme squads really makes them tough for me. How are people flying them?

Yeah. If your meta is full of this - pull out Sloane and win some easy tournaments!

I was flying a full Sloane ISD2 Avenger build with max squads, and 3 Goz's and SA, But he had Rieekan and had more activations than me even, you can pop MC30's easy, but not when they all wait to activate to see where your ISD will end up and then dive on your ISD at the same time. I still popped two, but saved one with Rieekan but they all had ACM's and not even an ISD can stand up to double arcs from two MC30's.

Granted I run the 1+whatever, but that's only because the current meta encourages that style of play. Even with the flotilla changes, running 4 MC30's and GR75's is still going to be very strong vs 1-2 ship carrier builds.

Sounds like Ard played well

1 hour ago, Karneck said:

Wouldn't that frustrate player's who've bought multiples? Sorry, you can't use more than two, sucks for you.

Then why stop with Flotillas? Why not put a limit on everything. I know I'm sick of seeing 4 Mc30 builds.

Well, it's not like you can bring four ISD-IIs, you are limited by the point cap after all. I think FFG could get away with limiting Flotillas since they are a special class of ship. 3 per fleet? That's what I would suggest. On the other hand, someone mentioned a "fix" or different approach for Relay - and that could also cut down on the flotilla spam.

If you bought more than x - yeah that does suck for you, but how many people bought multiple ISDs before the retrofit? Sucked for them as well. People who want to remain meta-competitive will always buy what they need to. I remember seeing lists with 6 - 8 YT-2400s. That's a lot of expansions or trading being done - but I haven't seen that many YTs on the tables lately.

Give us Squadrons that shut down individual keywords, and all problems are solved. I still don't see the need for a Nerf on anything.

1 minute ago, cynanbloodbane said:

Give us Squadrons that shut down individual keywords, and all problems are solved. I still don't see the need for a Nerf on anything.

Give us ways to shut down squadrons that aren’t - bring more squadrons of your own.

3 hours ago, Snipafist said:

I'm pretty sure you have a folder full of disney/animated/kid memes ready and waiting to respond with.

1 minute ago, dominosfleet said:

I'm pretty sure you have a folder full of disney/animated/kid memes ready and waiting to respond with.

Honestly, it's mostly my Google-fu is strong and I prefer to respond using gifs for comedic effect when possible

15 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Give us ways to shut down squadrons that aren’t - bring more squadrons of your own.

I would absolutely be in favor of upgrades that prevent squadron activation within medium range. I am also in favor of actual anti-squadron ships or Flotillas, with 2-3 anti-squadron dice. I have felt for a while, they have been missing from Armada for way too long. They should also be a liability vs other ships though.

6 hours ago, ripper998 said:

How so? It just means you cant pile on every upgrade on your one big whale if you dont want just one combat ship.

Also, if this rule does change, does that mean the upgraded flotilla versions are considered combat ships since they can shoot out of all sides? They are nearly nonexistent in today's meta.

They introduced flotillas so players would be more likely to run a large ship because of activations, (that is my opinion whether you agree or not.)

To then add the tabling rule, its now too big a risk (IMO) to bring a 1+x and squads build.

It doesnt matter how many activations you now have, it doesnt matter about the squadrons and the squadron pushers (who can still push sqds even if they dont count towards tabling)

If you see a single big ship with all flotillas you pop the big ship and it doesnt matter what losses you take really, youve won 10-1.

Thats not funny, cool or fair. If people are really pissed off with flotillas (and i have no problem with them at all) then remove their squadron pushing ability. Limit how many are in a fleet (without counting them towards the sqd limit). Dont do a nerf at all and instead add a new ship/sqd/upgrade thats aimed to destroy flotillas.

Im 100% against another flotilla nerf. Thats my opinion.

13 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

They introduced flotillas so players would be more likely to run a large ship because of activations, (that is my opinion whether you agree or not.)

To then add the tabling rule, its now too big a risk (IMO) to bring a 1+x and squads build.

It doesnt matter how many activations you now have, it doesnt matter about the squadrons and the squadron pushers (who can still push sqds even if they dont count towards tabling)

If you see a single big ship with all flotillas you pop the big ship and it doesnt matter what losses you take really, youve won 10-1.

Thats not funny, cool or fair. If people are really pissed off with flotillas (and i have no problem with them at all) then remove their squadron pushing ability. Limit how many are in a fleet (without counting them towards the sqd limit). Dont do a nerf at all and instead add a new ship/sqd/upgrade thats aimed to destroy flotillas.

Im 100% against another flotilla nerf. Thats my opinion.

Eh? I run an ISD, a Quasar, and a flotilla, this will have literally no impact on me flying an ISD with this list. Flotillas continuing to be a separate classification from small ships, like squadrons are separate from ships, doesn't seem like a big issue.

As for the people that bought 12 flotillas to support this specific build they were going for. Sorry they feel upset but they were gaming the system, I'll let you know if I shed any tears over their fuming but I don't see that on the horizon.

2 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

Eh? I run an ISD, a Quasar, and a flotilla, this will have literally no impact on me flying an ISD with this list. Flotillas continuing to be a separate classification from small ships, like squadrons are separate from ships, doesn't seem like a big issue.

As for the people that bought 12 flotillas to support this specific build they were going for. Sorry they feel upset but they were gaming the system, I'll let you know if I shed any tears over their fuming but I don't see that on the horizon.

So it doesnt impact you, it doesnt matter?

Ok

11 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

So it doesnt impact you, it doesnt matter?

Ok

And oddly, you, a person who is fine with flotillas, is opposed to him. It's like you have different opinions but are only incapable of seeing the bias in the other person or something.

That said, I'll join @dominosfleet in not shedding any tears for the 1+X builds when/if flotillas get slapped again, and I've run 1+X builds and done well with them.

6 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

And oddly, you, a person who is fine with flotillas, is opposed to him. It's like you have different opinions but are only incapable of seeing the bias in the other person or something.

That said, I'll join @dominosfleet in not shedding any tears for the 1+X builds when/if flotillas get slapped again, and I've run 1+X builds and done well with them.

I know its so strange, and were on the Internet as well! Fascinating isnt it

42 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

So it doesnt impact you, it doesnt matter?

Ok

I own 6 Imperial flotillas for my joke fleet(Que @Snipafist 's "choose the form of your destroyer" craken meme), I'm just not going to be bummed out that that list may have some of it's silliness wiped away. I think 1+ lists are similar to 3 isd lists, you take them for jokes not to be competitive. If someone is taking that list to be competitive then I'd be awfully concerned about a rules loophole someone is exploiting.

Also #dealwithit ;P

2 hours ago, Truthiness said:

Sounds like Ard played well

He did, but losing two MC30's and only my ISD was still only a 6-5. I mean, we both agreed going into it that it was highly doubtful that neither of us would walk away with a big win due to the nature of the beast.
All I'm saying is that the changes won't do anything to affect that sort of build, at all, if anything, it only grows stronger because of it.

1 hour ago, DrakonLord said:

They introduced flotillas so players would be more likely to run a large ship because of activations, (that is my opinion whether you agree or not.)

To then add the tabling rule, its now too big a risk (IMO) to bring a 1+x and squads build.

It doesnt matter how many activations you now have, it doesnt matter about the squadrons and the squadron pushers (who can still push sqds even if they dont count towards tabling)

If you see a single big ship with all flotillas you pop the big ship and it doesnt matter what losses you take really, youve won 10-1.

Thats not funny, cool or fair. If people are really pissed off with flotillas (and i have no problem with them at all) then remove their squadron pushing ability. Limit how many are in a fleet (without counting them towards the sqd limit). Dont do a nerf at all and instead add a new ship/sqd/upgrade thats aimed to destroy flotillas.

Im 100% against another flotilla nerf. Thats my opinion.

Your point is really only true if believe the only way to fly a big ship is 1 big + flotilla spam. The problem with any other fix is it doesn't get to the root of the problem. Insane point/activation efficiency for little risk. The only way I could see you getting a ship or squad that counters that would be to add a squadron to the game that automatically kills flotillas. Anything else is too expensive if you use a ship, or if you make a cheap ship you end up with the same problems flotillas brought in the first place.

11 minutes ago, ImpStarDeuces said:

if you make a cheap ship you end up with the same problems flotillas brought in the first place.

Yep, and this is the type of power creep I REALLY don't want to deal with.

1 hour ago, Karneck said:

All I'm saying is that the changes won't do anything to affect that sort of build, at all, if anything, it only grows stronger because of it.

Isn't the limitation behind running @Ardaedhel 's build the fact that none of the rest of us are @Ardaedhel ?

Cue Spartacus meme....

And speaking as a man who ran 3 CR90s and 3 GR75s this weekend, it's not the easiest build to run, but my GRs (and Ard's, for that matter) were doing important work all game. They aren't just activation padding in my list, they're necessary to activate the squadrons for me and flak/block for him (I'm speaking for him because I tried a build like his last year and had conversations with him about it at that time, haha).

I'm not sure why you think NOT nerfing Ard's build makes it stronger in this environment, but I'm willing to listen.

9 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Both is bad. It's 1) redundant in addressing that specific problem, 2) inelegant and heavy-handed, and 3) doubles the chances of causing negative second- and third-order consequences. I want them to make the bare minimum changes necessary to address the issues in the meta, and no more. I think both falls squarely into "more".

I'm very much in the doesn't-count-for-tabling camp, because it will tune down the prevalence and competitiveness of 1+X builds by introducing the risk of decisive losses. This allows people who enjoy that playstyle to keep playing them, but requires much more skill and risk acceptance to succeed, rather than just outright saying "this is too good, you can't play it anymore."

7 hours ago, Democratus said:

Yeah. If your meta is full of this - pull out Sloane and win some easy tournaments!

lol

Okay, so personally, what I'd like is...

1. Flotilla tabling rule, to cut down on flotspam.

2. A couple of new fleet support upgrades down the pipeline, to encourage the third and least-utilized dimension of flotillas (fleet support, rather than squadron pushing or activation spam).