4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

There's a lot of daylight between "Miranda" and "4 B-wings". Success is always an interplay of list quality and skill (and dice and matchups). To a degree, one can cover for another, but 4 B-wings just seems like being mean to yourself.

I dunno, 4x B-wings with Ion Cannons could be OK in this meta. Maybe one as a stress-hog/bug instead?

11 minutes ago, CRCL said:

I dunno, 4x B-wings with Ion Cannons could be OK in this meta. Maybe one as a stress-hog/bug instead?

Possible, but it would be hugely dependent on matchup against field jank. Some stuff will just roll it.

31 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

There's a lot of daylight between " Miranda " and "4 B-wings". Success is always an interplay of list quality and skill (and dice and matchups). To a degree, one can cover for another, but 4 B-wings just seems like being mean to yourself.

26 minutes ago, CRCL said:

I dunno, 4x B-wings with Ion Cannons could be OK in this meta. Maybe one as a stress-hog/bug instead?

13 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Possible, but it would be hugely dependent on matchup against field jank. Some stuff will just roll it.

Upon further consideration, B-wings provide access to the barrel roll action. If you wanted to take the "hardest decent list to fly" extreme even further, you could take triple X-wing aces along the lines of:

Wedge (33)
VI
M9-G8
Interated

Wes (34)
VI
R3-A2
Flechette Torps
Integrated

Luke (33)
VI
R2-D2
Integrated

At 100 points.

No repositioning options whatsoever, but debuff and support abilities. If you were to fly your ships perfectly , then you've got a great chance against all the meta staples, but a single mistake always costs the game. A good measure of skill in this game is the level of list power discrepancy the skill difference between two players can accommodate to provide a balanced game. You could go even further with 4 T-65 X-wings and a Z-95 as filler, but I don't think anyone alive could beat Ghost/Fenn with that.

33 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Possible, but it would be hugely dependent on matchup against field jank. Some stuff will just roll it.

I'll try it out at a league night and see how it goes. I actually find ion cannons to be really useful atm. I was flying 3x Delta's with ions and TIE/D for a while before the Australian nationals, and they performed pretty well. The only letdown was how high the variance was.

15 minutes ago, Astech said:

You could go even further with 4 T-65 X-wings and a Z-95 as filler, but I don't think anyone alive could beat Ghost/Fenn with that.

14 minutes ago, Astech said:

Upon further consideration, B-wings provide access to the barrel roll action. If you wanted to take the "hardest decent list to fly" extreme even further, you could take triple X-wing aces along the lines of:

Wedge (33)
VI
M9-G8
Interated

Wes (34)
VI
R3-A2
Flechette Torps
Integrated

Luke (33)
VI
R2-D2
Integrated

At 100 points.

No repositioning options whatsoever, but debuff and support abilities. If you were to fly your ships perfectly , then you've got a great chance against all the meta staples, but a single mistake always costs the game. A good measure of skill in this game is the level of list power discrepancy the skill difference between two players can accommodate to provide a balanced game. You could go even further with 4 T-65 X-wings and a Z-95 as filler, but I don't think anyone alive could beat Ghost/Fenn with that.

Again, I'm not sure how one expects this list to win against a huge number of possible squads it might face. I have an affinity for certain squads that don't typically involve turrets, but when I design squads, I absolutely take squads that I think can win against anything assuming I play well enough. I don't think I'd suggest a zero repositioning squad for everyone. It's hard enough to beat top end lists as it is.

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Again, I'm not sure how one expects this list to win against a huge number of possible squads it might face. I have an affinity for certain squads that don't typically involve turrets, but when I design squads, I absolutely take squads that I think can win against anything assuming I play well enough. I don't think I'd suggest a zero repositioning squad for everyone. It's hard enough to beat top end lists as it is.

Well, against Ghost/Fenn, all you need to do is get Luke and Wedge into the blind spot of the Ghost while Wes stresses it out for a few turns. Alpha strikes aren't so bad with Wes around, and aces can't compete with the PS of the squad. The only trick is the total lack of repositioning, so every maneuver you do has to be correct, unlike with some of the lists "skilled" players fly, where it simply doesn't matter what maneuver they dial in - where every option is a good option.

12 minutes ago, Astech said:

Well, against Ghost/Fenn, all you need to do is get Luke and Wedge into the blind spot of the Ghost while Wes stresses it out for a few turns. Alpha strikes aren't so bad with Wes around, and aces can't compete with the PS of the squad. The only trick is the total lack of repositioning, so every maneuver you do has to be correct, unlike with some of the lists "skilled" players fly, where it simply doesn't matter what maneuver they dial in - where every option is a good option.

That's basically impossible with an X-wing dial, even if the Ghost player told moves ahead of time.

15 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

That's basically impossible with an X-wing dial, even if the Ghost player told moves ahead of time.

Not with FAA, it ain't.

2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Not with FAA, it ain't.

Still extremely unlikely. Large Base boost is immense.

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Still extremely unlikely. Large Base boost is immense.

2 hours ago, Astech said:

while Wes stresses it out for a few turns.

Stress = no boosting

Now, with Maul, keeping it stressed is going to be harder said than done. But then again, blindspot = no shooting, no stress removal, eh. Not really going to be possible to keep it double stressed with that particular list, so should be able to green to clear then boost.

Threads take a weird path sometimes. This went from talking about the weird Hoth final, to meta list originality, to "take this under-powered list and win or no balls", to the viability of an under-powered list and tactics.

2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Threads take a weird path sometimes. This went from talking about the weird Hoth final, to meta list originality, to "take this under-powered list and win or no balls", to the viability of an under-powered list and tactics.

Stream of conciousness posting!

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

That's basically impossible with an X-wing dial, even if the Ghost player told moves ahead of time.

I would love to watch sometime.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

Threads take a weird path sometimes. This went from talking about the weird Hoth final, to meta list originality, to "take this under-powered list and win or no balls", to the viability of an under-powered list and tactics.

Can we talk Looping Chewy tactics? How to control the rhythm of chewy. Whats the meta call of red green or yellow? When there be a Stormtrooper fix?

Might not be a bad idea to have that conversation, if people start deciding final tables by Loopin' Chewie instead of playing a boring 2hrs slapfight.

23 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Might not be a bad idea to have that conversation, if people start deciding final tables by Loopin' Chewie instead of playing a boring 2hrs slapfight.

I want to play best two of 3 looping chewy for initiative. Its allowed via tournament rules!

4 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Still extremely unlikely. Large Base boost is immense.

Of course it is, you just have to BELIEVE . Than anything is possible!

54 minutes ago, killerbeardhawk said:

Can we talk Looping Chewy tactics? How to control the rhythm of chewy. Whats the meta call of red green or yellow? When there be a Stormtrooper fix?

I will fight anyone who tries to take Green.

Loopin Chewie was $12 on Amazon yesterday. Mine gets here Friday.

4 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Loopin Chewie was $12 on Amazon yesterday. Mine gets here Friday.

Yep, grabbed one for me, and one for cac

55 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Loopin Chewie was $12 on Amazon yesterday. Mine gets here Friday.

Loopin louie is $50+ and chewy is $12? Amazin knows whats up!

I think Louie is out of print...

On 3/24/2018 at 11:12 PM, Darth Meanie said:

Then don't expect it to always be fun. NASCAR is "drive fast and turn left." The scenery doesn't change, and I'll bet they get bored sometimes.

If tournament players are only going to seek the best 1% of the game so they will win tournaments, you can change the points, you can change the pilots, and/or you can change the abilities. But a stalemate will happen. It not a reflection on the game, it's not a reflection on the designers, and it's not a reflection on the players. It's a reflection on how the game is approached and played.

High level play doesn't have to be boring or un-fun. The most fun games I've played have been at GenCon and regionals. It only becomes so if the most competitive options are boring. Hence Miranda vs Miranda mirror match. There are absolutely things that can be done at the design level to alleviate that problem, the X-wing team often just seems to be too slow, or shows too much restraint, in their attempts to do so (see the U-boat and how long it took to bite the bullet on its upgrade bar, and even after all of that it still performs pretty well).

I also highly doubt anyone is getting bored in a noisy stock car toping out at 200mph, regardless of how boring the typical NASCAR race can be to watch.

13 hours ago, Astech said:

Well, against Ghost/Fenn, all you need to do is get Luke and Wedge into the blind spot of the Ghost while Wes stresses it out for a few turns. Alpha strikes aren't so bad with Wes around, and aces can't compete with the PS of the squad. The only trick is the total lack of repositioning, so every maneuver you do has to be correct, unlike with some of the lists "skilled" players fly, where it simply doesn't matter what maneuver they dial in - where every option is a good option.

This reads like a fundamental misunderstanding of how Ghost Fenn (specifically Maul+Ezra) works.

Maul with 2 TLT attacks and a green move can clear 1-3 stress a turn. Wed can at most give out 1.

The Ghost boosts at PS11 thanks to Coordinate from Fenn, not in the combat phase after Wes has stressed it. The Ghost will always get to boost if it wants to.

Killing Fenn will probably be the priority of the X-Wings, but even if you do you still don’t reposition and are terribly predictable. The margin for error for hitting that bubble is so small, you need to be a repositioning ace to really succeed - which until Fenn is dead is realistically 3 ships in the entire game (and none of them are Rebel).

But even if these 3 X-Wings could beat Ghost Fenn, how are they getting past all of the other gatekeeper lists in the meta.