So I was thinking about how to make best mechanical use of the new padawan survivor universal specialization and it comes down to one or both of two things

1) Using improved secrets of the Jedi to "fully" mod a lightsaber crystal (dragite is my favorite for concussive 2's ability to stun lock an opponent)

2) temple training with a whole lot of linked which probably means an Ataru striker with a double bladed lightsaber and a another 2 force die spec.

On the first point, starting as a bounty hunter gadgeteer would provide jury rigged, the talent that lets you add a hp, deadly accuracy (+5 damage on a lightsaber, yes please), and armor master improved armor master so we may be talking about a Mandalorian Jedi (which is thematically consistent with fully tricking out a lightsaber) in which case maybe having cortosis armor would also be appropriate thematically. And it gives you access to unmatched devastation. But here comes the first question... concussive (fully modded dragite crystal) costs 2 advantage to activate, can jury rigging the lightsaber that contains the fully modded dragite crystal reduce the cost of activating concussive to 1 advantage?

My go to lightsaber spec is niman disciple (say hello to melee defense 4 thanks to 1 from one or 2 from armor, 1 from improved armor master and 1 or 2 from defensive training, and you'd get 3 more parry and reflect, and a force rating, draw closer is pretty cool with unmatched devastation) but for the preceding build maybe soresu defender (int based lightsaber attacks so you're not splitting where you put your dedications, improved parry, improved reflect, lots of parry and reflect) or Ataru striker (hawk bat swoop and saber swarm with a double bladed lightsaber allows linked 3 thanks to linked 1 from the double bladed lightsaber +2 from having force rating 2 from padawan survivor, and since a double bladed lightsaber already has linked 1, I believe that means you could jury rig the double bladed lightsaber to activate linked for 1 instead of 2 advantage, is that correct? Oh and having a high agility makes you good at flying and shooting the latter of which is good for use with unmatched devastation but with linked 3 that triggers on one advantage each that hardly matters). Now here comes another question... assuming you had a fully modded dragite crystal could you potentially activate concussive for each hit in the linked attack OR is it only once per attack? But then again with linked 3 maybe you'd want the crystal with the highest fully modded base damage. And, I'm away from book right now but I think deadly accuracy only applies to 1 hit of an attack... is that correct?

And final question for this post, which of the 3 mentioned lightsaber specs would you prefer for this build's third spec and why?

Personally...

shein expert and soresu defender - supreme reflect and supreme parry... never attack. It's the light side way.

My preferrd combo if it works is...

ataru and Shii cho... sarlacc sweep with saber swarm! Deadly combo especially if you added deadly accuracy. Problem is I'm not sure if it actually works RAW. If it does and you added that to the padawans add ranks in k. Lore to each hit as @Absol197 may have discovered... everyone would be done like turkey dinner. Carved like one too. BUT that might be a touch broken especially with a maxed crystal and saber. Although it would be great with a kimber stone or a training saber or even the theorized Luxum crystal (it is apparently really good at taking down mechanical stuff)

Deadly Accuracy adds its damage bonus only to a single hit of the attack. So it is not that overpowered with a Linked X attack.

to Concussive

I guess you could jury-rig the lightsaber to trigger concussive with one advantage. However you will not get any benefit from triggering it with multiple hits in the same round. "The target is staggered for a number of rounds equal to the weapon's Concussive rating". So each activation of concussive would just say: you are staggered for the next two rounds. It does not add up/stack to 4 rounds, 6 rounds... or more.

You would have two rounds to apply Concussive again of corse. The stun lock will happen, but not by adding up in the same round.

to Saber Swarm

"His next Lightsaber (Agility) combat check this turn gains the Linked item quality, with ranks equal to Force Rating." It does not add the linked (force rating) quality to an already present one. When you use the double bladed lightsaber you have to use either its Linked 1 quality or the linked (force rating) quality of saber swarm - not both at the same time. However, the Linked 1 quality of the double bladed lightsaber itself could be jury-rigged. I think it would be possible to improve the temporary linked (force rating) of Saber Swarm with the temporary enhancement of Imbue Item, to trigger linked with 1 advantage. With a hefty strain cost.

If you want one more attack with saber swarm you would have to dual wield lightsabers (instead of one double bladed).

Edit:

Defensive Training

In relation to the errata concerning defense, I do not think that defensive training can stack with anything. It replaces the defense rating of a weapon. And you have to choose, if you want to use the defense rating of armor, weapon or else.

3 hours ago, Rogues Rule said:

Deadly Accuracy adds its damage bonus only to a single hit of the attack. So it is not that overpowered with a Linked X attack.

to Concussive

I guess you could jury-rig the lightsaber to trigger concussive with one advantage. However you will not get any benefit from triggering it with multiple hits in the same round. "The target is staggered for a number of rounds equal to the weapon's Concussive rating". So each activation of concussive would just say: you are staggered for the next two rounds. It does not add up/stack to 4 rounds, 6 rounds... or more.

You would have two rounds to apply Concussive again of corse. The stun lock will happen, but not by adding up in the same round.

to Saber Swarm

"His next Lightsaber (Agility) combat check this turn gains the Linked item quality, with ranks equal to Force Rating." It does not add the linked (force rating) quality to an already present one. When you use the double bladed lightsaber you have to use either its Linked 1 quality or the linked (force rating) quality of saber swarm - not both at the same time. However, the Linked 1 quality of the double bladed lightsaber itself could be jury-rigged. I think it would be possible to improve the temporary linked (force rating) of Saber Swarm with the temporary enhancement of Imbue Item, to trigger linked with 1 advantage. With a hefty strain cost.

If you want one more attack with saber swarm you would have to dual wield lightsabers (instead of one double bladed).

Edit:

Defensive Training

In relation to the errata concerning defense, I do not think that defensive training can stack with anything. It replaces the defense rating of a weapon. And you have to choose, if you want to use the defense rating of armor, weapon or else.

Not sure concussive works the way way you say it does and i know (eote core pg 156) that the defensive quality "increases" the melee defense of the person so it does stack with armor as per the latest errata, but the rest of what you said made sense to me.

2 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Not sure concussive works the way way you say it does and i know (eote core pg 156) that the defensive quality "increases" the melee defense of the person so it does stack with armor as per the latest errata, but the rest of what you said made sense to me.

I think what @Rogues Rule was referring to is that while the Defensive trait does indeed stack with your defense, Defensive Training does not stack with a weapons inherent Defensive rating. So Defensive Training 1 + a weapon with Defensive 1 would still only result in Defensive 1.

1 hour ago, penpenpen said:

I think what @Rogues Rule was referring to is that while the Defensive trait does indeed stack with your defense, Defensive Training does not stack with a weapons inherent Defensive rating. So Defensive Training 1 + a weapon with Defensive 1 would still only result in Defensive 1.

That's true, but he said it didn't stack with armor, which isn't true.

Weird follow on question that i submitted to the devs this morning was about whether the jury rig to reduce to advantage cost of concussive would sit on the crystal or sit on the lightsaber, because with a cyclic crystal array it'd be kind of odd to decrease the cost of concussive when the active crystal didn't have concussive, and what if you were switching between a dragite gem and kimber stone would jury rigging the saber decrease the cost of concussive for both crystals, or maybe a middle ground like it applies to the lightsaber but the saber counts as a different weapon for each crystal in the cyclic crystal array. Ill post the answer to that here and the dev answered question thread when I get it in probably 2 to 4 weeks

what i said was already said

46 minutes ago, TheShard said:

what i said was already said

Perfectly reasonable to speak your mind/opinion anyway

No i was gonna mention link not stacking...

In regards to link, jury rig/imbue would only apply to the quaility if it is present. Saber swarm is a character quaility that grants linked, so your linked would look like this

Linked 1 (Item quality) Linked X (person quality).

Thus the qualities are independent of one another. Link by saber swarm cannot be modified as it is a personal, separate quality the character is imposing on the lightsaber only for the duration of the lightsaber check, imbue and jury rig only work on present qualities.

18 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Weird follow on question that i submitted to the devs this morning was about whether the jury rig to reduce to advantage cost of concussive would sit on the crystal or sit on the lightsaber, because with a cyclic crystal array it'd be kind of odd to decrease the cost of concussive when the active crystal didn't have concussive, and what if you were switching between a dragite gem and kimber stone would jury rigging the saber decrease the cost of concussive for both crystals, or maybe a middle ground like it applies to the lightsaber but the saber counts as a different weapon for each crystal in the cyclic crystal array. Ill post the answer to that here and the dev answered question thread when I get it in probably 2 to 4 weeks

I'd say that jury-rig applies to the weapon as a whole, so it would reduce the cost of concussive from both crystals. In fact it would reduce the cost of concussive even if you swapped in a crystal that didn't grant you concussive (meaning you couldn't activate it, but if you could, it'd cost one less advantage).

On 2018-03-24 at 11:35 AM, Rogues Rule said:

"His next Lightsaber (Agility) combat check this turn gains the Linked item quality, with ranks equal to Force Rating." It does not add the linked (force rating) quality to an already present one. When you use the double bladed lightsaber you have to use either its Linked 1 quality or the linked (force rating) quality of saber swarm - not both at the same time. However, the Linked 1 quality of the double bladed lightsaber itself could be jury-rigged. I think it would be possible to improve the temporary linked (force rating) of Saber Swarm with the temporary enhancement of Imbue Item, to trigger linked with 1 advantage. With a hefty strain cost.

If you want one more attack with saber swarm you would have to dual wield lightsabers (instead of one double bladed).

3 hours ago, LordBritish said:

In regards to link, jury rig/imbue would only apply to the quaility if it is present. Saber swarm is a character quaility that grants linked, so your linked would look like this

Linked 1 (Item quality) Linked X (person quality).

Thus the qualities are independent of one another. Link by saber swarm cannot be modified as it is a personal, separate quality the character is imposing on the lightsaber only for the duration of the lightsaber check, imbue and jury rig only work on present qualities.

I like this interpretation, that Saber swarm applies Linked to the attack, not the weapon. If it was the other way around you should be able to jury-rig a non-linked lightsaber to activate Linked one single advantage for whenSaber swarm kicks in.

Not sure I'd allow Imbue item to bypass it though. While it does intuitively make more sense, as it's temporary and force-magicky, to let it imbue the more intangible concept of attack, I'd come down on the "no" side because of the explicit mention of items, and, well, not let Saber swarm go insane.

1 hour ago, penpenpen said:

I'd say that jury-rig applies to the weapon as a whole, so it would reduce the cost of concussive from both crystals. In fact it would reduce the cost of concussive even if you swapped in a crystal that didn't grant you concussive (meaning you couldn't activate it, but if you could, it'd cost one less advantage).

I like this interpretation, that Saber swarm applies Linked to the attack, not the weapon. If it was the other way around you should be able to jury-rig a non-linked lightsaber to activate Linked one single advantage for whenSaber swarm kicks in.

Not sure I'd allow Imbue item to bypass it though. While it does intuitively make more sense, as it's temporary and force-magicky, to let it imbue the more intangible concept of attack, I'd come down on the "no" side because of the explicit mention of items, and, well, not let Saber swarm go insane.

Aye, the fact that Linked has to be added to the weapon to the attack supports the interpretation; the quality of linked doesn't exist at any point until the attack is made. Hence I would rule it cannot be imbued either; as imbuing takes a move in order to do so, and a menvour and action cannot be enacted at precisely the same time, and imbue very exactly states an item quality, linked bestowed by saber swarm is not an item quality, it is a personal quality being bestowed on a weapon.

E.g. If you want a linked weapon, pick a double lightsaber and pay the cost. Saber swarm is a personal quality.

So i plan on going ascetic/ S. Defender/Padawan for the whole wandering ronin/philosopher vibe. I plan on using concusive and a dragite gem for these very reasons. Now I'm thinking get a second saber for crits so i can play king arthur and the black knight from monty python. Concussive then crit. "You finished yet?" "Tis but a flesh wound! Concuss and crit again, "Admit defeat!" "I'll bit your legs of!" And repeat.

????ROFLMAO!!!????