I got all my stuff yesterday and couldn't be more pleased. I have started to look at different builds, but I have found my biggest question is what force powers to leave off my Dark Lord of the Sith.

Force Reflexes seem like an auto include so he can get that awesome reflect.

Saber Throw seems like the next best option since it doesn't require an exhaust and it gives this slow poke an amazing attack.

but that leaves one more slot for force powers.

Battle Meditation seems like the least useful, mostly because I think I will take a lot of storm troopers and so can just put a bunch of trooper tokens in the bag and no I'm going to pull out a trooper token whenever I choose to activate a unit that didn't get an order.

But Force Push and Force Choke both seem so good. Being able to just kill a trooper with no dice is pretty awesome, but Force Push maybe even better. You can pull troops off objectings or push them in or out of range, or out of melee. And it affects the whole unit. Force Push may actually be way more useful in getting objectives and actually winning the game.

The one thing I am certain of, is that I will be taking three force powers everytime I take Vader. (And I am taking Vader every time.)

here is my question, why take force reflexes since every unit can take the dodge action?

From the learn to play book.

"Actions represent a unit’s capabilities. During a unit’s activation, it

may perform two of the following actions:

•

Move

•

Attack

•

Aim

•

Dodge"

Reflexes is not a Dodge so it would be a way to get double dodge tokens.

Underwhelming since running to cover would be better than a second dodge token imo

Theres always stinker cards and this is just one of them lol

because its a free action. exhausting the card isnt counted as an action so you hve 2 actions left

you need to spend 1 action a turn at least moving him around as he is so slow

4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Reflexes is not a Dodge so it would be a way to get double dodge tokens.

Underwhelming since running to cover would be better than a second dodge token imo

Theres always stinker cards and this is just one of them lol

force reflexes is probably one ,if not the best force power in the game...

@smccaughan Action Economy, Action Economy, Action Economy. Vader is slow so he is probably going to want to move at least once. Sure he can attack after than move, but wouldn't it be great to Aim then Move+Attack and still get that aim token. With Master of the Force he can do this every round.

I see myself spending a lot of Vader Activations doing one of the following:

Move, Move + Attack

Aim, Move + Attack

He is also going to want to be able to recover often since a few of his force powers get exhausted and he can only recover one for free a turn.

1 minute ago, Hrathen said:

@smccaughan Action Economy, Action Economy, Action Economy. Vader is slow so he is probably going to want to move at least once. Sure he can attack after than move, but wouldn't it be great to Aim then Move+Attack and still get that aim token. With Master of the Force he can do this every round.

I see myself spending a lot of Vader Activations doing one of the following:

Move, Move + Attack

Aim, Move + Attack

He is also going to want to be able to recover often since a few of his force powers get exhausted and he can only recover one for free a turn.

you mean dodge?

Yeah I just saw in the Rules Reference that it is a free action so basically you do the following. Dodge>Move>Move>Relentless(Saber Throw)>Force Reflexes>Force Choke if you kit him out with Saber Throw, Force Choke and Force Reflexes.

OK I cannot wait to get him on a table.

@bageldrone

My point is that you are going to want to be using a lot of actions besides Dodge, so the Force Reflexes gives it to you for free.
There will also probably be times when you are expecting to get fired at from a number of units, and in that case, getting two dodge tokens is also a great idea. But I am a big believer in "The best defense is to have your enemy already dead".

Oh thats a free action...derp....yeah thats pretty potent since vader is so slow. It lets him actionless trigger his deflect ability O.o

2 minutes ago, smccaughan said:

Yeah I just saw in the Rules Reference that it is a free action so basically you do the following. Dodge>Move>Move>Relentless(Saber Throw)>Force Reflexes>Force Choke if you kit him out with Saber Throw, Force Choke and Force Reflexes.

OK I cannot wait to get him on a table.

Then the next round you Recover, And do it all again, but only move once.

Just now, Hrathen said:

Then the next round you Recover, And do it all again, but only move once.

Exactly

Force Reflexes and Saber Throw appear to be the Auto Includes. Force Choke or Force Push are both situationally good but largely depend on what points you have to spend elsewhere. One or the other or neither are all fine choices.

23 minutes ago, smccaughan said:

Yeah I just saw in the Rules Reference that it is a free action so basically you do the following. Dodge>Move>Move>Relentless(Saber Throw)>Force Reflexes>Force Choke if you kit him out with Saber Throw, Force Choke and Force Reflexes.

OK I cannot wait to get him on a table.

That's... too much actions, unless the first "Dodge" is not an action, but the token he gets from Master of Evil From what I've seen Vaders activation is usually Force Reflexes -> Move -> -> Force Choke/Push -> Move -> Relentless(either melee or saber throw). Reflexes nad Throw are almost mandatory on him, with the third being dependent on meta/usual terrain/preference

A topic I've seen in a couple places is whether Force Push can replace Saber Throw as a ranged attack. It's pretty obvious it can't, but the math is interesting regardless.

1 Range = 6"
1 Move = 4" for a Trooper model

There's lots of problems with how Force Push works to try and get something in melee with Vader, but the timing is the big problem. He needs to move within 6" of the model on his first action to pull them 4" closer so that he can walk the remaining 2" to get into melee with his second action. It would be a little better if he could walk/walk/pull/attack, but that doesn't work out. This limits the tactic to 10" from his starting position. Saber Throw, meanwhile, is an easy walk/walk/attack at Range 2 for a total of 20" threat. Overall a pretty significant difference.

10 minutes ago, Shanturin said:

That's... too much actions, unless the first "Dodge" is not an action, but the token he gets from Master of Evil From what I've seen Vaders activation is usually Force Reflexes -> Move -> -> Force Choke/Push -> Move -> Relentless(either melee or saber throw). Reflexes nad Throw are almost mandatory on him, with the third being dependent on meta/usual terrain/preference

You are correct I fat fingered the second move

I think that the answer is a tactical decision about Force Coke or Force Push. Point total will matter (do you need the extra 5 points) as will what you know about your opponents list.

For now, I actually am leaning towards Force Choke despite building most of my pre-launch lists with push. I think that given what is available to Imperial right now, the ability to eliminate select trooper units is huge. Force choking those special troopers can do a lot of good. Moreso than pushing units out of cover.

On 23/03/2018 at 4:17 PM, Copes said:

I think that the answer is a tactical decision about Force Coke or Force Push. Point total will matter (do you need the extra 5 points) as will what you know about your opponents list.

For now, I actually am leaning towards Force Choke despite building most of my pre-launch lists with push. I think that given what is available to Imperial right now, the ability to eliminate select trooper units is huge. Force choking those special troopers can do a lot of good. Moreso than pushing units out of cover.

It will be forever "force coke" in my games. Maybe I'll model my second Vader holding a can of coke

I think Force Reflexes is must have - sooo good combined with lightsaber deflect rules

Problem is this will likely mean this will be his “free” recover every turn, which puts me off choke / push a little

Saber throw is close to a must include (free dodge, move, move, throw Sabre seems like a typical turn for Vader - unless someone gets in melee range)

I think meditation will be great conbined with 2 speederbike units (one with comm link, one with comm jams) - depends on if you have a force with flankers etc or just a solid bubble in the middle. Personally i’ll Be using fast flankers

I think force push could be very good though - if you can get in range. As I understand the shooting mechanics (measure from leader, but to any model) you could put the unit leader out of range and other troops in range. Although they could of course just shoot Vader (unless he is pushing whilst out of site - ie other side of a building)

Overall Reflex, Throw, Meditation will be my choice (for now)

Saber throw and force reflexes are reallyrequired at this point.the rest is optional.

Push or choke are both useful. Push helps the range as you can move twice, push a figure closer and then smash him with your Relentless saber

Considering how dice are removed, two of Vader's Saber Throws will be significantly less effective than one single melee attack. It might be more effective, in the long run, to make a handful of melee attacks, using Force Push to control the range, than to make a Saber Throw every turn.

On 3/24/2018 at 8:25 PM, buckero0 said:

Push or choke are both useful. Push helps the range as you can move twice, push a figure closer and then smash him with your Relentless saber

Relentless is an "After" effect, so no, you can't Push inbetween moving and triggering Relentless.

2 hours ago, Hedgehobbit said:

Considering how dice are removed, two of Vader's Saber Throws will be significantly less effective than one single melee attack. It might be more effective, in the long run, to make a handful of melee attacks, using Force Push to control the range, than to make a Saber Throw every turn.

But Vader can make an attack (most people are interpreting this as any attack) after he moves. Saber Throw has a range of 2 which is a longer attack range than pulling an enemy forward with force push then melee attacking them.

See my post above. Force Push only extends Vader's threat by 2" due to timing issues. Saber Throw has double that threat range. Push has its uses, but its really not an effective threat extender.

I played a game with Reflexes and Choke yesterday and found it quite effective. Not enough that Choke was an auto include, but it allowed me to neuter 2 stormtrooper units while taking out an AT-ST so... not to be ignored. The trick was to give Vader an order so that I could save his activation for last. Move up out of cover and throw the saber, then choked out a DLT. Since the round was over there was no reason to Reflex, so I refreshed Force Choke, played Implacable as my next card, choked out another DLT, moved into Cover and sabered the AT-ST again, tossed up Reflexes and took a damage to put the token back so I could finish off the AT-ST when I drew the token again.