search your feelings and share your thoughts about wether detrimental upgrade cards would be an interestng adittion to the game.
upgrade cards that add weaknesses but have negative point costs.
things that could affect shields, movement tool clicks, remove hull points etc.
A very cool option, but I’d be very concerned about their impact - I highly doubt very many people fill every slot on every ship, and being able to gain extra points for a slot they weren’t going to use anyway could potentially create some very powerful combined effects that would far outweigh any single penalty applied to any one ship.
Unfortunately every system I've seen that allows for negative attributes in return for points has been extremely gameable, as it's quite easy to take something you weren't intending to do and apply penalties to it in return for points that you invest into things you were going to focus on (min/maxing, for short).
FFG has released points balance upgrade cards in X-Wing, but that's a similar but different kind of thing so far as I see it.
Zero and negative point cost upgrades were one of the things that turned me off X-Wing.
Reduce the armament of your front and side arcs by 1 die (-10 points)
Now all my flots cost 8 points!
Ha ha! Literally just wrote one on the Happy Friday thread for Binks:
-5
Opponent chooses either your dial or changes speed by 1 to a min of one.
10 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:Reduce the armament of your front and side arcs by 1 die (-10 points)
Now all my flots cost 8 points!
If it filled the Turbolaser slot it wouldn't be so bad.
I'm not a huge fan of the idea though. I'd rather they just release more variants to give me more options. More campaign boxes to distribute them.
What about a deck of negative generic upgrade slot cards, where you are forced to draw randomly at the start of turn 1.
You build your fleet, and each draw, that you commit to, is worth -5 points. You just can't plan what the hindrance will be.
Then it would be like a 0 damage crit effect, that you can't get rid of. Sure, maybe you get one that isn't a big deal, but you risk getting one that totally hoses you battle plan for that ship.
officer slot, - 10 points
incompetent officer
add 1 extra command dial
weapon slot, -5 points
consript gunners
re-roll all crits
1 minute ago, slasher956 said:officer slot, - 10 points
incompetent officer
add 1 extra command dial
weapon slot, -5 points
consript gunners
re-roll all crits
1 hour ago, Geressen said:search your feelings and share your thoughts about wether detrimental upgrade cards would be an interestng adittion to the game.
upgrade cards that add weaknesses but have negative point costs.
things that could affect shields, movement tool clicks, remove hull points etc.
My guess would be unlikely unless it was part of an objective. Armada is already going to have more difficulty than xwing with coming up with viable re-combinations of ship stats to make new ships. Adding negative point upgrades that change stats, which xwing has done for balancing purposes, would just making new ships even more difficult.
my point is the balance of it will be impossible to work with playablity
Why would I want to reduce the cost of my ship by filling a slot with a negative effect? That's a horrible trade off. Here's 5 points, but you also can't use your officer slot AND he ruins the ship he is on.
Nah. Bad idea.
7 minutes ago, slasher956 said:officer slot, - 10 points
incompetent officer
add 1 extra command dial
Add this to Relentless and you just cashed in 7 points for no loss.
Well ok the loss of 2 slots but 7 points none the less.
Aging Officer
-5 points
When you reveal your command dial roll 1 red die.
If you get a blank face, your opponent can select a different command for your ship to perform.
-10 Captain close to retirement.
If possible, you may not end your move within short range of an enemy ship. While adjusting your maneuver tool you must say "I'm getting to old for this."
I don't think its a good idea for the min-maxing reasons stated above. X-wing is different (100 points and massive inconsistencies in ships), and while they work well for balancing over-priced chassis, Armada seems to be much better balanced (one of the reasons I'm turning towards it more).
Admiral Daala, 30 pts (+/-?)
In the first turn add three dice of any color already in the die pool of all friendly ships; turn two, add two; and turn 3 add 1.
On turn 4, take 1 die out of your die pool each turn to a maximum of 3 per ship until turn six.
I've was thinking if Daala ever got into the game this would be a good way to show how her character launches an all out battle but declines as her fleet takes damage in the books. There still a good chance a fleet with this admiral would win, but it would take some luck and skill. Of course, Daala is still legends, so some other named admiral might be a better choice.
X-Wing gets away with this for two reasons:
1: Many of these 0 and negative cost upgrades are released with the ship expansion they are intended for, making their cost already baked into the generic ship cost.
2: Of the few that apply to older ships, they are intended to redesign a card by limiting an older ability or upgrade that is no longer relevant to the game and replacing it with a newer ability or upgrade that is. It's never just a flat cost reduction.
3: As indicated above, 0 and negative cost upgrades are always targeted towards specific ships so that their effect cannot be abused elsewhere.
6 minutes ago, Thalomen said:Admiral Daala, 30 pts (+/-?)
In the first turn add three dice of any color already in the die pool of all friendly ships; turn two, add two; and turn 3 add 1.
On turn 4, take 1 die out of your die pool each turn to a maximum of 3 per ship until turn six.
I've was thinking if Daala ever got into the game this would be a good way to show how her character launches an all out battle but declines as her fleet takes damage in the books. There still a good chance a fleet with this admiral would win, but it would take some luck and skill. Of course, Daala is still legends, so some other named admiral might be a better choice.
The only ship that can be within shooting long range at the start of round 1 is a Profundity-launched Hammerhead. Most ship to ship combat only lasts about 3 rounds total before all ships escape range and arc.
Edited by thecactusman1738 minutes ago, slasher956 said:officer slot, - 10 points
incompetent officer
add 1 extra command dial
Why yes, I will happily take a 10 point Comms Net GR75 that was just going to spam the same command for tokens all game, thanks.
Like I said earlier, unfortunately this kind of thing promotes min/maxing and otherwise isn't great :(. Sorry. It's a fun idea, just not a balanced idea.
1 minute ago, thecactusman17 said:The only ship that can be within shooting long range at the start of round 1 is a Profundity-launched Hammerhead.
Ok. So what is your advice for making something like this work then?
Admiral Holdo (-30 points)
No friendly ship may reveal commands, as I’m a terrible admiral that will not share information with the people I command. No ships may face the enemy fleet or return fire. Once your ship is out of “fuel tokens”, allow your opponent to crush it with their fist.
Still explain the plan to no one.
If only your flagship remains, pick it up and throw it at your opponent
Edited by MandalorianMoose4 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:Admiral Holdo (-30 points)
No friendly ship may reveal commands, as I’m a terrible admiral that will not share information with the people I command. No ships may face the enemy fleet or return fire. Once your ship is out of “fuel”, allow your opponent to crush it with their fist.
Still explain the plan to no one.
If only your flagship remains, pick it up and throw it at your opponent
Admiral Holdo (-100)
Deploy your ships on your opponents side of the board facing yours.
Your ships can only perform a speed 1 meneuver in a straight line.
When only your flagship is left, throw the entire table at you opponent.
35 minutes ago, Thalomen said:Ok. So what is your advice for making something like this work then?
First off is that any functional version of this card would not be a negative fleet cost. As i said, combat only tends to last for a few turns.
A negative fleet cost version of this card would have a significant downside. She's an Admiral, so lets make her a commander.
Admiral Daala (Imperial Commander), 10 points: When a friendly ship attacks an enemy ship, if it attacks from a hull zone with no shields remaining, the attack counts as obstructed. (Engineering command): After a friendly ship resolves an engineering command, it may regenerate one additional shield up to the maximum shield value.
Note that this makes Daala an effective -10 points compared to Admiral Ozzel or General Dodanna. It also thematically works to emphasize her interest in protecting the remaining Imperial fleet over assaulting the Rebel forces. Finally, it offers next to no additional efficiency bonus compared to other admirals. This is largely thanks to her necessity that the ship in question actually perform an engineering command instead of passively gaining the bonus shield. It is much faster to destroy shields with weapons (especially dedicated anti-shield weapons like Ion Batteries and HIEs and ACMs) than it is to rebuild and regenerate them.
Yeah having control of it is min maxing. Though it would be fun to play where everyone’s 2 largest ships starts with a random 0 damage crit they can’t remove. Just for funnies. Random things that happen in battle situations